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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
2041
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Posted - 2013.11.17 13:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
A video.
Show me this isn't the case when it comes to how we assume we are so knowledgeable about game balance. Prove to me this video doesn't accurately describe how we provide feedback from a standpoint that assumes we are justified and that it is always never our mistake, but always CCP's.
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
5136
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Posted - 2013.11.17 13:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
I wonder how many people will try to disagree when they don't even watch the entire thing.
Level 5 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
Supporter of CCP raRaRa.
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1828
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Posted - 2013.11.17 14:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Excellent video. Thanks for linking that.
First, humility in the gaming community? OK, I'm done laughing now. I think having a God complex is just about required to register for an MMO.
CCP has tried to shorten the trial-and-error cycle as much as is feasible which was a great move on their part. It still boggles me that some players want it to be longer. TTK is a great example of what the video talks about. There are so many variables that influence life expectancy on the battlefield that I have no idea how CCP will fix the situation without more trials. I doubt CCP has enough manpower to run real trials on their development servers so that leaves us. We get to test each change from month to month until we find a balance that is good enough.
AKA: Rees Noturana https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
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Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1828
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Posted - 2013.11.17 14:30:00 -
[4] - Quote
Here is an analysis by Judge Rhadamanthus about the trial-and-error evolution of the Dropship camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOsM0YEfJFk
It's a perfect example of how CCP is proceeding.
AKA: Rees Noturana https://twitter.com/reesnoturana
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Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
Public Disorder.
1248
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Posted - 2013.11.17 15:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:A video.Show me this isn't the case when it comes to how we assume we are so knowledgeable about game balance. Prove to me this video doesn't accurately describe how we provide feedback from a standpoint that assumes we are justified and that it is always never our mistake, but always CCP's.
Great vid, Vyzion Eyri.
If a person can come away from their education having learn only this one lesson, then that education was a success.
If you want a great read from the physics.stats side, google E. T. Jaynes on "the Mind Projection Fallacy".
P.S. It's about thinking and inference, not astral travel ;)
I support SP rollover.
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4507
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Posted - 2013.11.17 16:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Silly humans.
I am always right.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4509
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Posted - 2013.11.17 17:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
After watching this video, apparently all cats have the god complex.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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DeadlyAztec11
Gallente Federation
2614
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Posted - 2013.11.17 19:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Excellent video, I have loved TED ever since we were shown a video of theirs by my teacher of English.
I think CCP is doing trial and error a bit wrong. They should be going with the best observable solution and continuing that path until you make a wrong turn, at which point you double back and try another path. What CCP has been doing is that they have gone down the wrong path, yet continue going that path, defeats the purpose of trial & error. Then again, this is just my conclusion, holding no more substantial proof than yours.
Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
2048
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Posted - 2013.11.17 20:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Agreed. And so far, 1.6 has been the best camera yet. They make their mistakes but as per the talk and Judge's video, they are good mistakes. I know it is a bit much to ask but I think we can trust CCP to continue to make mistakes, but also that we can trust them to learn from them, so perhaps we should lay off them a bit. All our feedback is invaluable, I agree. What we ask them to change is probably how they make mistakes: trying to determine what is right and finding a middle ground between what the community thinks and what they think. But having to call them out all the time as absolutely wrong and insulting them in every vulgar way possible for making a mistake? I will attempt to play the prophet here and envisage the forum post-1.7. CCP will be flamed, and people will do it because they have overlooked the absolutely staggering task that is creating a game and simplified it to what they believe is the one point that has determined the failure of the build: "it's because CCP didn't listen to me".
"When nothing is going your way, go out of your way to do nothing."
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Django Quik
Dust2Dust.
1739
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Posted - 2013.11.17 22:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Great video and very easily applied to Dust.
What the guy describes in the opening story is effectively what we in games analytics call A/B testing. You may know there is a problem with something but as it's a subjective thing, you can't possibly know for sure the correct or preferred solution without offering up options and looking at the results. This is precisely why balance bounces back and forth constantly; the same reason that UIs change around every now and again; this is why cameras move up and down each build; etc.
Now, even though CCP are relatively new with making FPS games, they are godfathers of analytics in games. Whatever your views on the changes and developments that CCP make, you should really trust that they are tracking every little thing about each and every thing and when they do make changes, they're monitoring them closely not only in terms of the numbers that are produced but also the reams of feedback that they get on the forums. They're not idiots - they are making this game for us, not themselves and they want to make the best game that they can that we will also love.
Dust2Dust - Funeral arrangements for all of New Eden. Join our public channel D2D. to chat and squad with us.
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Asirius Medaius
658
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Posted - 2013.11.17 22:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
I really loved this video for illustrating the leaps of improvements over the years; It has made me reflect on how well CCP handles problems, and perhaps, I may have not given them enough credit.
Very nice video, and I hope that there are more like it (since I don't have the recording equipment required to partake in these evaluations myself).
Signature coming soonGäó.
[Level 9 Forum Warrior]
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Meeko Fent
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
1572
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Posted - 2013.11.17 22:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:After watching this video, apparently all cats have the god complex.
Yup.
For the State! For Caldari FW join Caldari Hierarchy
Replication Warrior
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
123
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Posted - 2013.11.17 23:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
if you want proof look at large tank mounted railgun turrets, and rendering.
both have been broken for 6 months and CCP wont even awknowledge the extreme boatload of gamebreaking glitches surrounding the two subjects.
complete silence after about week 2 of the problems.
THIS is why i doubt CCP, not becuase they ocasionally muck things up, but because they willfully decided to break game balance to make things shiny, and refused to awknowledge it.
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SILENTSAM 69
SONS of LEGION
RISE of LEGION
607
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Posted - 2013.11.17 23:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
love how people decide what is a "gaming breaking" glitch sometimes. Often they are small things that I never see. Funny that they can be game breaking and yet never experienced...
Yes it sucks for snipers and railgun users, but it hardly breaks the game. Especially when I see others getting kill at range. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10359
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Posted - 2013.11.17 23:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ghosts Chance wrote:if you want proof look at large tank mounted railgun turrets, and rendering.
both have been broken for 6 months and CCP wont even awknowledge the extreme boatload of gamebreaking glitches surrounding the two subjects.
complete silence after about week 2 of the problems, with the last known responce being "working as intended this is standard for FPS) and absolute silence as far as all the railgun bugs are concerned.
THIS is why i doubt CCP, not becuase they ocasionally muck things up, but because they willfully decided to break game balance to make things shiny, and refused to awknowledge it.
CCPs complete lack of acknowledgement of poor desisions is what makes me doubt them, not their unintentional mistakes, but their willful ones.
CCP made lots of acknowledgments. patch notes are full of them.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Current Theme \\= Advanced Scrambler Rifle =// Unlocked
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Necandi Brasil
DUST BRASIL S.A
Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2013.11.18 00:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
great video!!!!!!!!!!!!! +1000
A DUST BRASIL S.A precisa de você ! Junte-se a nós !
Hey CCP, give me PvE!
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sQuatch78
Ultramarine Corp
20
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Posted - 2013.11.18 00:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thanks for linking this. Great talk.
I totally agree with the tenor of the video. Frustrating into how many little gods one can run into, even or especially in academia. Am also a big believer in looking outside of one owns area of expertise for ideas to adapt them for your problems.
in the same vein, gonna pimp my own post here for CCPs hopeful input. 
"We are the slayers of kings, the destroyers of worlds, bringers of ruination and death in all its forms."
Cato Sicarius
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Ghosts Chance
Inf4m0us
125
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Posted - 2013.11.18 01:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Ghosts Chance wrote:if you want proof look at large tank mounted railgun turrets, and rendering.
both have been broken for 6 months and CCP wont even awknowledge the extreme boatload of gamebreaking glitches surrounding the two subjects.
complete silence after about week 2 of the problems, with the last known responce being "working as intended this is standard for FPS) and absolute silence as far as all the railgun bugs are concerned.
THIS is why i doubt CCP, not becuase they ocasionally muck things up, but because they willfully decided to break game balance to make things shiny, and refused to awknowledge it.
CCPs complete lack of acknowledgement of poor desisions is what makes me doubt them, not their unintentional mistakes, but their willful ones. CCP made lots of acknowledgments. patch notes are full of them.
just not the RIGHT acknowledgements
just hey awknowledge most things, but others seem to be taboo, find me a blue post, any blue post about any of the 12 major railgun turret glitches that have been plaguing the weapon for 6 months to a year.
find me a post where they admit limiting draw distance to carryed weapon was a disasterious idea.
sure they admit instalations arnt supposed to randomly disapear when you shoot them, but they have yet to admit that railguns cant actually see their full weapon range. you see somments in that direction about sniper rifles they never actually state or admit its an actual problem. |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front
Intaki Prosperity Initiative
618
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Posted - 2013.11.18 10:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
I feel this deserves more attention, good find OP!
Grahisha of ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier // Latest entry published 17/11/13
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Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
232
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Posted - 2013.11.18 10:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
tl;dw |
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Sigberct Amni
Goonfeet
Top Men.
188
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Posted - 2013.11.18 11:09:00 -
[21] - Quote
If you people want to see God Complex in full swing, join the military. Any military. The pressure to do things correctly with so many people looking over your shoulder leads to some seriously hilarious and depressing results.
Ghosts Chance wrote::words:
Shut the **** up already and go back to selling tinfoil in your conspiracy thread.
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DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles.
Renegade Alliance
3030
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Posted - 2013.11.18 11:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
Now if only CCP did more trial and error stuff.
I propose no explosive weapons or aim assist for a little while :D
GôÉGô¥GôÿGô£Gôö > GôÉGô¢Gô¢
Gÿà¿When will dust get better?Gÿà
Forum Warrior LV. 3
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Haerr
Molon Labe PC
RISE of LEGION
98
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Posted - 2013.11.18 18:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Now if only CCP did more trial and error stuff.
I propose no explosive weapons or aim assist for a little while :D
Hah! that made me giggle! :)
Bitter, butthurt and trying to HTFU.
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Spectral Clone
Dust2Dust.
Top Men.
541
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Posted - 2013.11.18 18:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Now if only CCP did more trial and error stuff.
I propose no explosive weapons or aim assist for a little while :D
But Marauder, they cant give out respecs (according to some stupid rules someone has come up with)... how could they do trial and error to perfect this game, if noone can TRY their changes out?
CCP, let go, just let go of this no respec nonsense. This is not EVE.
KDR > ALL
ME > KDR
ME > ALL
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