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The Grand Revamp, Part 1 - Heat

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Ulysses Knapse duna corp 595	Posted - 2013.11.17 11:11:00 - [1] - Quote Heat is an interesting concept. When I say heat, I am of course referring to weapon heat and the overheating mechanics involved with it. Personally, I would like to see it fleshed out and used more often. As such, I have devised a plan to implement improvements to the Heat system. The first part of this plan involves rectifying existing issues with the heat system. Most notably, overheating itself. There should be a penalty for overheating, of course, just as there is a penalty for running out of ammunition. However, the current penalty is more painful than it should be. Overheating takes a chunk of your HP, prevents you from using anything, and limits your basic movement. This is bad, and it's primarily what stops heat from being a perfectly acceptable weapon limit. Thusly, I have come up with an alternative penalty: Overheating damages the ammunition in your current magazine (either entirely or partially). Overheating disables the weapon temporarily, preventing you from firing, aiming or reloading it. Overheating does NOT prevent you from using other items, such as vehicles, weapons or equipment. Overheating does NOT disable basic movement, such as climbing ladders or sprinting. With this new penalty, you no longer take direct damage from overheating, and you are no longer completely dysfunctional when your weapon overheats. You can still switch to a sidearm, throw a grenade or run away, but you'll also have to reload after your weapon cools down. I think this is a much fairer penalty. Still harsher than simply running out of ammunition, but it's not always a death sentence. The second part of this plan involves adding the heat mechanic to more weapons. Now, hear me out, this is a good thing! Take the Assault Rifle, for example. You can fire an entire clip, which will leave the barrel looking red hot, but the only penalty the weapon receives is that it has to be reloaded. So, you reload, and fire another entire clip. Barrel still looking red hot. Reload, fire another entire clip. Barrel still looking red hot, but still working just fine, even after firing three entire clips in succession with only the reloads as delay. It's like the developers are acknowledging the fact that Assault Rifles should have heat, but don't care enough to actually add heat to them. Assault Scrambler Rifles have heat, Assault Rifles don't. Scrambler Rifles have heat, Tactical Assault Rifles don't. Perhaps even more ridiculous is that the Heavy Machine Gun, specifically designed (with multiple barrels!) for continuous fire, will overheat if you fire it for too long, but Assault Rifles never will. Ever. Now, I'm not saying that overheating should be a serious concern for Assault Rifle users, but it should at least be a minor concern. Also, I have come to the conclusion that different weapon types should be affected by overheating in different ways. For example: Projectile weapons are the least affected by heat, but have bulkier ammo. (Less Overheating) Hybrid (Blaster and Railgun) weapons are moderately affected by heat. (Average Overheating) Laser weapons are greatly affected by heat, but are less burdened by ammo. (More Overheating) Furthermore, though this might be somewhat obvious to some, different weapon classes would also be affected overheating in different ways. Weapons designed for prolonged use would be less affected by overheating, weapons designed to be used in short bursts would be more affected by overheating. That concludes my ideas on a possible revamp of heat mechanics in Dust 514. Feedback is welcome. Humanity is the personification of change.
Cat Merc Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 4497	Posted - 2013.11.17 12:05:00 - [2] - Quote If you removed those penalties from the SCR, it would become the most OP weapon in the game bar none Also, SCR to TAC AR is comparison is stupid. SCR does more damage, has more range (especially after the 1.7 buff), larger clip size and most importantly, has +300ROF over the TAC AR. So if you put the penalty on the TAC AR, it becomes useless. *Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant* *Beta Vet* *Level 4 Forum Warrior*
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 595	Posted - 2013.11.17 23:14:00 - [3] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: If you removed those penalties from the SCR, it would become the most OP weapon in the game bar none Removed what penalties? The utterly stupid ones? Oh well! Cat Merc wrote: Also, SCR to TAC AR is comparison is stupid. No, no it's not. Your remark is stupid. Cat Merc wrote: SCR does more damage *If it does (I unfortunately do not know off-hand), it's because of it's massive heat penalty.* has more range (especially after the 1.7 buff) Sorry, but you're wrong. It currently has less range. larger clip size Because it can overheat. and most importantly, has +300ROF over the TAC AR. How is that the most important factor? For one, you can't utilize that increased Rate of Fire without a modded controller anyway. Secondly, shooting more shots produces more heat, which means this isn't really all that helpful. So if you put the penalty on the TAC AR, it becomes useless I think you are misunderstanding something. I'm not saying they should implement this system haphazardly without rebalancing the weapons it affects. That would be stupid. I'm frankly disgusted that you would think I want that. Who do you think I am? Humanity is the personification of change.
Negris Albedo Nuevo Atlas Corporation 32	Posted - 2013.11.21 06:27:00 - [4] - Quote +1.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 1135	Posted - 2013.11.21 06:42:00 - [5] - Quote +1 "The trick to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources..." Albert Einstein
Samael Artico Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.11.21 08:52:00 - [6] - Quote I agree! We Amarr should not be the only ones with weapons that overheat.
Jackof All-Trades The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 280	Posted - 2013.11.21 11:06:00 - [7] - Quote Good. Except I kinda want ammo to be removed from lasers altogether ): that's the whole point of lasers in EVE! Though scrambler pistol ammo can stay - the description justifies it (plus the flip hatch is too cool) "Pulvis et umbra sums." We are but dust and shadow GÇò Horace, The Odes of Horace \ Omni-Specialist / Focus: Gallente
Ulysses Knapse duna corp 604	Posted - 2013.11.21 14:39:00 - [8] - Quote Jackof All-Trades wrote: I kinda want ammo to be removed from lasers altogether ): that's the whole point of lasers in EVE! It is? I don't think it is. Tech II Laser Crystals eventually break from use, after all. Even if it was the point of lasers in EVE, Dust is quite different in regards to ammunition. In EVE, you can fire your turrets continuously for multiple minutes without needing to reload, but in Dust you can't fire most weapons continuously for ten seconds. Humanity is the personification of change.
Samael Artico Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2013.12.12 06:59:00 - [9] - Quote Jackof All-Trades wrote: that's the whole point of lasers in EVE! The nerve... Obviously the Amarr use lasers because of their majestic power, you peasant...
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 414	Posted - 2013.12.12 07:09:00 - [10] - Quote I really like the OP. Especially with the point of the HMG. A multi barrel gun should be pretty hard to overheat. Look at the minigun for example. It can shoot long enough to cut down a tree without overheat issues and its air cooled!

Negris Albedo Nuevo Atlas Corporation 37	Posted - 2013.12.12 22:24:00 - [11] - Quote +1.
Meeko Fent State Patriots Templis Dragonaors 1710	Posted - 2013.12.12 22:30:00 - [12] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: If you removed those penalties from the SCR, it would become the most OP weapon in the game bar none Also, SCR to TAC AR is comparison is stupid. SCR does more damage, has more range (especially after the 1.7 buff), larger clip size and most importantly, has +300ROF over the TAC AR. So if you put the penalty on the TAC AR, it becomes useless. pewpewpew tsssssss Switches to SMG Loses due to either not having the range advantage anymore, or due to the inherent underwhelming characteristics of sidearms. DUST is a half decent game. Be happy its free.
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 815	Posted - 2013.12.20 05:17:00 - [13] - Quote Bump. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
alten hilt DUST University Ivy League 54	Posted - 2013.12.23 23:53:00 - [14] - Quote +1 Heat needs to be removed altogether, or implemented altogether.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 802	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:00:00 - [15] - Quote Maybe Projectile Weapons (Except for ones that obviously have heat, like the HMG) shouldn't overheat, but have random mechanism jams. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2437	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:33:00 - [16] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: but Assault Rifles never will. Ever. That is a lie. Assault rifles overheat I Buy Officer Weapons and IA5 Pistols Contact me for arrangements; 200k-500k a pop Lentarr Legionnaire
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 802	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:35:00 - [17] - Quote No they don't. The Krin's SIN-11 jams after a while, but even then you can switch weapons, sprint, etc. And even then, it's a weapon built for long-range burst firing. EDIT: How do you buy officer weapons/IA5's? Because I have around 73 IA5 Tactical's (I'm pretty sure they're drop rate is higher). ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2437	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:42:00 - [18] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: No they don't. The Krin's SIN-11 jams after a while, but even then you can switch weapons, sprint, etc. And even then, it's a weapon built for long-range burst firing. EDIT: How do you buy officer weapons/IA5's? Because I have around 73 IA5 Tactical's (I'm pretty sure they're drop rate is higher). It still overheats, just not in the conventional sense. Why should every overheat mechanic be the same? The Assault rifle inflicts less damage per shot so it makes sense that less damage accompanies the lack of heat and lack of heat damage. The heat of the Krin's isn't so intense, it stops weapon functionality but not user actions. I buy them by arrangements & down payments. I Buy Officer Weapons and IA5 Pistols Contact me for arrangements; 200k-500k a pop Lentarr Legionnaire
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 803	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:46:00 - [19] - Quote Mhm. What if the player market never comes out though? :P Because I don't want my IA5's, so could I just be given 35 million, in exchange for my word that I'll trade you my pistols? Because I really don't want these. 500k each, doing the math, is exactly 35 million ISK. If I have you the leftover 3, that's 36.5 million, but I want to at least have a couple left over. I also have many many Officer HMGs, Sniper Rifles, Forge Guns... Pretty much everything. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2437	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:57:00 - [20] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Mhm. What if the player market never comes out though? :P Because I don't want my IA5's, so could I just be given 35 million, in exchange for my word that I'll trade you my pistols? Because I really don't want these. 500k each, doing the math, is exactly 35 million ISK. If I have you the leftover 3, that's 36.5 million, but I want to at least have a couple left over. I also have many many Officer HMGs, Sniper Rifles, Forge Guns... Pretty much everything. Dude arty, the pistols aren't going for 500K only the officer gear. Who do you think I am? I am Bojo the Mighty and I will throw a down payment on your officer gear. You WILL finish your transactions with me afterwards or Pink Fluffy Bunnies will reign over your head. You don't want your IA5 pistols and do you really think they are worth pulling a stupid stunt over? Some gear you will never use? No, you'd rather accept my kindness in advance and throw me a bone when player market comes out. This is not the place for this arty. Heat: Dude scouts have it hard enough, should heat really be in almost every light weapon that counts? The AScR does not overheat after continuous fire of an entire clip. I think that is worth mentioning. It can only overheat if utterly spam it. I Buy Officer Weapons and IA5 Pistols Contact me for arrangements; 200k-500k a pop Lentarr Legionnaire

Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 807	Posted - 2013.12.24 00:59:00 - [21] - Quote I wasn't saying I'd trick you, I was just trying to figure out how it worked. Now I feel sad. Do you really think I'd trick the person that put this corporation in my hands? /re-rail ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Bojo The Mighty Zanzibar Concept 2439	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:17:00 - [22] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: I wasn't saying I'd trick you, I was just trying to figure out how it worked. Now I feel sad. Do you really think I'd trick the person that put this corporation in my hands? /re-rail I intimidated you didn't I That's how I may speak softly but I carry a big stick! /Derailed train comes to a stop, 40 wounded. I Buy Officer Weapons and IA5 Pistols Contact me for arrangements; 200k-500k a pop Lentarr Legionnaire
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 807	Posted - 2013.12.24 01:37:00 - [23] - Quote I mean, not really, because PFBH can't really do anything to me, but sure. :D /41 injured, might need a band-aid for this wicked burn that Bojo has ;D ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 875	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:31:00 - [24] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Heat: Dude scouts have it hard enough, should heat really be in almost every light weapon that counts? The AScR does not overheat after continuous fire of an entire clip. I think that is worth mentioning. It can only overheat if utterly spam it. Scouts?! That's all you ever think about, Bojo. Why would it affect Scouts anymore than it affects Medium Dropsuits? Also, thanks guys, for derailing my thread. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 811	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:34:00 - [25] - Quote Because Scouts have small wee-wees. Seriously though, let me know numbers for feedback damage, if any. Personally, I feel like all weapons should overheat, but only Amarrian weapons (Or weapons that just make sense to harm the user) should deal feedback damage. First though, I need numbers, seize duration, etc. because there's potentially a chance where my Minmatar Scout gets OHK'd by overheating with a Duvolle Assault Rifle. ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 875	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:35:00 - [26] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Because Scouts have small wee-wees. Seriously though, let me know numbers for feedback damage, if any. Personally, I feel like all weapons should overheat, but only Amarrian weapons (Or weapons that just make sense to harm the user) should deal feedback damage. First though, I need numbers, seize duration, etc. because there's potentially a chance where my Minmatar Scout gets OHK'd by overheating with a Duvolle Assault Rifle. Feedback damage is a silly concept, anyway. Having your weapon disabled it painful enough as is. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 811	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:44:00 - [27] - Quote Right, but like I stated earlier today in a different thread, the whole Empire's thing is that they agonize the user. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Do you know how many reasons there were to removing the fail-safe on the Laser Rifle? There wasn't a reason. They did it to hurt themselves. TL;DR - Amarrians = Emo Aaaaanyways, small arms like the Plasma Rifle, shouldn't do feedback damage. But bigger and more powerful things, like the Laser Rifle, should. Of course, they should buff the Laser Rifle first... ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 875	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:47:00 - [28] - Quote Artificer Ghost wrote: Right, but like I stated earlier today in a different thread, the whole Empire's thing is that they agonize the user. Doesn't matter if it makes sense or not. Do you know how many reasons there were to removing the fail-safe on the Laser Rifle? There wasn't a reason. They did it to hurt themselves. TL;DR - Amarrians = Emo Aaaaanyways, small arms like the Plasma Rifle, shouldn't do feedback damage. But bigger and more powerful things, like the Laser Rifle, should. Of course, they should buff the Laser Rifle first... I still think feedback damage is a terrible concept. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage looks nicer.
Artificer Ghost Bojo's School of the Trades 811	Posted - 2013.12.24 04:57:00 - [29] - Quote Agree to disagree then. On some weapons, it'd not make sense, but for other weapons, it'd be fine. My only condition, if they keep it, is that they DONT disable all of our functions. We should be able to melee still. And do more melee damage! We're hitting them with a piece of flaming metal, for f*ck's sake! Switch weapons, sprint, etc. All that should be allowed if you overheat (And it does damage). ~Art, CEO and Director of Educations at Bojo's School of The Trades, Co-Founder of the Learning Coalition
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 913	Posted - 2013.12.29 05:56:00 - [30] - Quote Bump. What's the difference between an immobile Minmatar ship and a pile of garbage? The pile of garbage is more lethal.



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