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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
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Posted - 2013.11.12 18:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Absolutely not.
When your regen is 1/4th of what it is right now, you have a penalty on shields, and you don't get inherent regen, maybe.
Damage mods is the lamest argument in existence.
My Gal Assault, can only fit basic plates and enhanced armor reps if I want to use damage mods. Can't even fit a duvolle.
But my Gal Logi can do everything complex.
Cosgar, got anything to say about the logi thing? ;)
And before you say anything else, know that without damage mods, Gallente are FORCED to dual tank.
There is NOTHING REMOTELY USEFUL to put in high slots that isn't a shield extender or a damage mod.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
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Posted - 2013.11.12 18:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:D34NOS MAZDA wrote:Dont forget that the shields have a much faster regen than armour. so you are able to drop back and have a second rally of shots much faster.
Both have there advantages but they will never be balanced to make everyone's need happy.
getting 2-3 shotted by scambrer? rifles isn't fun, with a 3.7 second recharge delay, 401 shields, 36 or 39 shield hp/s, is impossible to survive against geks and scambrer rifles where were you when armor tankers were getting sh@t on by shield tankers who could pop around the corner for 10 seconds and come back with full health? 22 44 66 is fine but 99 shield is stupid. Shield tanker = hit and run. Armor tanker = stand and deliver. There's no run in the hit and run. Average shield delay is ~6 seconds, and recharge rate isn't as efficient as it should be while armor can get a good buffer and get a superior DPS.
6 seconds.
And then (for assaults), a 31hp/s regen kicks in.
My armor suit can barely scratch 10.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4321
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Posted - 2013.11.12 18:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Absolutely not.
When your regen is 1/4th of what it is right now, you have a penalty on shields, and you don't get inherent regen, maybe.
Damage mods is the lamest argument in existence.
My Gal Assault, can only fit basic plates and enhanced armor reps if I want to use damage mods. Can't even fit a duvolle.
But my Gal Logi can do everything complex.
Cosgar, got anything to say about the logi thing? ;)
And before you say anything else, know that without damage mods, Gallente are FORCED to dual tank.
There is NOTHING REMOTELY USEFUL to put in high slots that isn't a shield extender or a damage mod. This has nothing to do with logistics.
Without damage mods, shields and armor are equal.
Use half the low slots for armor? You get as much eHP as shields and about 10hp/s of regen, at the cost of 0.4 (or more) speed.
Use one more low slot for armor?
Get a higher buffer than most shield users, become slower, and have a slow ass regen.
No regen?
You're good for one or two engagements, but then you won't have enough eHP to do anything.
The only thing that disbalances them is damage mods, but that's BS since my assault can't fit damage mods without heavily sacrificing tank.
My armor tank is much worse than the average shield tank.
HOWEVR, my Gal Logi can both get ridiculous HP, regen, and still fit 3x damage mods.
If Logis are put out of the equation, shields and armor are equal and any complaints are invalid.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
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Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4326
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Posted - 2013.11.12 19:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
I made a post a looooooooooong time ago.
I said this will happen if dual tanking wasn't penalized.
Now everyone is running brick tank suits.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
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4329
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Posted - 2013.11.12 19:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Complex is fine at 66 and certainly does not need a buff, enhanced just needs to be 44.
THIS I approve of.
Even raise basic to 33.
So it's 33/44/66.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4332
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Posted - 2013.11.12 20:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Alright.
Initially, I agreed with your premise. Shield extenders do need better scaling - the enhanced is silly.
Then I saw that you were suggesting a 50% buff to the complex.
A significant buff to shield HP is not needed. Running your numbers, we get Caldari assaults running 744 shields and 2.7/4.4 second shield delays at 31.25 HP/s with the following fit:
Duvolle Assault Rifle
M209 Assault Submachine Gun
Core Locus Grenade
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Shield Regulator
Complex CPU Upgrade
Complex Shield Regulator
X-3 Quantum Nanohive
5/7.35 movement speed.
Galven Nized referred to a dual complex repper fit, so let's have a look at one of those.
GEK-38 Assault Rifle
Submachine Gun
M1 Locus Grenade
Complex Shield Extender
Complex Light Damage Modifier
Enhanced Light Damage Modifier
Enhanced Armour Plates
Enhanced Armour Plates
Complex Armour Repairer
Complex Armour Repairer
X-3 Quantum Nanohive
223 shield HP, 504 armour HP with 12.5 HP/s armour regen with a 7/10 delay on the 25 HP/s shield regen.
4.72/6.94 speed. Has a slight damage advantage with the light weapon, however the grenade and sidearm have to be downgraded.
Naturally, I'm sure one of your first objections will be that you can come up with a better fit. If so, go right ahead - I would be interested to see your suggestions.
So.
744 shield HP vs 504 armour HP - Shield wins. Slight saving grace in the form of some degree of poor shielding for armour.
31.25 HP/s vs 12.5 HP/s - Shield clearly wins.
Ah, but there's a shield delay isn't there? It's 2.7 seconds if not depleted, or 4.4 seconds if they are depleted. If they're depleted, you're probably dead to be honest so let's look at it with 2.7 seconds.
Shield regen can start up again under fire unless the shields are depleted in that fire - the timer starts from the first bullet.
That way, you can get a 31.25 HP tick every 3 seconds.
The two complex armour repairers will repair 37.5 HP in that time. Marginal victory for armour there, until you're not under fire at which point the regen gets vastly overtaken.
5/7.35 shield move speed vs 4.72/6.94 move speed - Shields win.
Duvolle + M209 SMG + Core Locus vs GEK-38 + STD SMG + M1 locus + 15% damage modding - Not clear cut as the GEK does slight more damage than the Duvolle with damage mods, but the M209 SMG and Core Locus clearly outstrip armour's options, in addition to the core locus being an instant kill button against armour. Draw, if not shield victory.
Anything I've missed?
As I mentioned earlier, if you have a better fit I'd love to see it.
This is approved by the feline overlord of all humans.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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Cat Merc
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
4334
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Posted - 2013.11.12 20:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sana Rayya wrote:Rep tools and repping hives have made the absent or slow recharge of armor meaningless. Two Gal assaults in front of two logis with Six Kin or Lai Dai rep tools on each is 140-176 HP/sec repping, up to 20-30m away. Pretty much impossible to kill unless you core them.
But that's two people (the repper and the one being repped).
Think of the amount damage that can be done with two people.
When you consider that, the fact that it can be repped doesn't change much. (Also, shield triage items coming SoonTM)
As for hives, you can always kill them, even with that 140 HP/s from triage hives, as they have to stay inside the radius of that triage.
Oculus Felis Semper Vigilant
Beta Vet
Level 4 Forum Warrior
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