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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1932
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Posted - 2013.11.10 20:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
Current Optimal Ranges:
"Duvolle Assault Rifle": 42m
"Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle": 65m
Range difference: 23m
Sources: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40886&find=unread
1.7 Optimal Ranges:
"Duvolle Assault Rifle": 48m
"Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle": 60m
Range difference: 12m
Sources: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117279&find=unread
For the love of God, explain.
So far, the only reason why I didn't complain about the standard AR was because I can outrange it. I hope you do realize that you're about to make another weapon pointless (Tac AR) by negating its purpose against standard AR users. You're actually buffing the standard AR, which most people want to be nerfed.
I use the AR from time to time, since I'm skilled into them, and even as an occasional AR user I can say that this is getting absolutely ridiculous!
And I don't even want to talk about the new weapons or the range buff to the Scrambler Rifle, which will force me (I really hope you realize this) to leave my weapon of choice for either a Rail Rifle or a Scrambler Rifle, since these new weapons (and the new Scrambler) are going to outrange AND outdamage (DPS) my Tac AR, leaving absolute no reason to use it.
Yes, this is a QQ thread, which is extremely rare coming from me, but it's because you're about to compromise the future of my only true love in this game.
Please, tell me you're looking again at those numbers before you set them in stone.
-Caldari Achura - One with the Universe
-Tac AR Specialist
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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Tech Ohm Eaven
L.O.T.I.S.
Public Disorder.
926
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Posted - 2013.11.10 20:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP doing a Blamy again by buffing the OP AR.....lol!
Tac AR?
Well at least you have a reason to use advanced or proto.
I use the gimped laser.....lol!
The TAC will at least have some function in 1.7 unlike the soon to be obsolete laser.
If no fix for lasers in 1.7 then I will just give up and delete Dust 514.
But yeah CCP is batshit crazy if they think its ok to buff the AR. |
Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1933
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Posted - 2013.11.10 20:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:CCP doing a Blamy again by buffing the OP AR.....lol!
Tac AR?
Well at least you have a reason to use advanced or proto.
I use the gimped laser.....lol!
The TAC will at least have some function in 1.7 unlike the soon to be obsolete laser.
If no fix for lasers in 1.7 then I will just give up and delete Dust 514.
But yeah CCP is batshit crazy if they think its ok to buff the AR.
You're right about the poor Laser, same destiny... the Rail Rifle (even the Assault version, lol!) is going to have almost the same range without being that restrictive.
You have all my sympathy...
-Caldari Achura - One with the Universe
-Tac AR Specialist
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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low genius
The Sound Of Freedom
Renegade Alliance
849
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Posted - 2013.11.10 22:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
why did you leave all the relevant information about the other guns?
you can't just take one example and make a case for yourself. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4834
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Posted - 2013.11.10 23:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
low genius wrote:why did you leave all the relevant information about the other guns? you can't just take one example and make a case for yourself.
Alright, so, let's look at those other weapons.
Rail Rifle:
Higher DPS.
Very short spool up time.
Significantly larger clip size.
Significantly longer range.
Recoil remains to be seen.
Scrambler Rifle:
So much more DPS it's not even funny.
Similar shots before overheat to shots in the clip of a TAR.
Significantly larger clip size.
Significantly longer range.
Less recoil.
Assault Rifle:
More DPS.
Greater weighting to RoF than damage per shot, which is inherently more valuable.
Comparable range.
More damage per clip.
Much less recoil.
I'm not really sure the TAR wins in any of these categories.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Kinsho Swords
Caldari State
67
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Posted - 2013.11.10 23:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maybe they are doing this for the reason of the new weapons arrival ???? Don't they understand that people tend to gravitate towards what's new , just to try it out if anything else ???? Don't leave because of lasers or the number changes . I'm sure that sometimes they like to see if anyone notices and if anyone cares . Think about it , just like breach weapons ( which I use and love ) , not too many people use the tactical AR's . I do from time to time , but not that often so maybe they just wanted to see what type of feedback ( if any ) that they would receive about this change , but I believe that they are changing the weapons that are popular so that , when the new weapons come out that EVERYONE will make them THE NEW WEAPONS OF CHOICE .
" Doubts are like flies and should be crushed !!!!!! " I hope that I am THE FLY SWATTER of those in my presence .
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Eskel Bondfree
DUST University
Ivy League
161
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Posted - 2013.11.10 23:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:leave my weapon of choice for either a Rail Rifle or a Scrambler Rifle, since these new weapons (and the new Scrambler) are going to outrange AND outdamage (DPS) my Tac AR, leaving absolute no reason to use it.
I believe this is exactly the point of those weapons. The Gallente AR is a supreme CQC weapon, high ROF, high DPS, low range. Scrambler and rail rilfe are designed for long ranged combat. The TAC AR tries to mimic the performance of the SCR and rail, but naturally it's kind of inferior, just like the assault rail will not be as good in CQC as the Gallente AR.
With all racial variants released, if you spec into Gallente AR just for the TAC, you're doing it wrong. Spec into SCR or rail instead. Here's hoping we will get a refund of all SP invested in AR skills with 1.7. |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1335
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Posted - 2013.11.11 01:27:00 -
[8] - Quote
They reduced the range of the TAC because currently the range of the TAC is longer than the range of the gun it's supposed to be copying (Scrambler Rifle).
Why they increased the range of the std AR though....that's just stupid. I would only be okay with this if they introduced kick and dispersion to the gun (since it's lacking in that department, which makes it OP at range).
Tell me that no kick/dispersion on a high DPS weapon is balanced. I dare you.
Links:
List of Important Topics
I make logistics videos!
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Keri Starlight
0uter.Heaven
Proficiency V.
1945
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Posted - 2013.11.11 11:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
To answer all of you:
1. Thanks Arkena, you really understand the point.
2. No, I'm not doing it wrong if I spec into a weapon I like. It should be a competitive weapon even though if it's a variant, with the downsides of a much higher ISK cost (77.000 instead of 47.000 on PRO tier) and a more intensive SP sink (level 4 for the first model and Proficiency for PRO tier). It shouldn't be completely overshoadowed by the Scrambler Rifle, it should keep some reason to be used on the battlefield (this promotes variety and customization).
Also, I don't like the feel Scrambler Rifle, I don't like the laser tech and I want some kick and a "realistic" feel on my gun. The Scrambler is much better, but it doesn't give me any emotion. I want to use the weapon i like, not the most OP gun. I want my Tac AR to be competitive.
3. They are going to buff the Scrambler's range beyond belief (48m - 78m!!!), so there was absolutely no reason to nerf the Tac AR's range! I'm so angered and frustrated about this...
-Caldari Achura - One with the Universe
-Tac AR Specialist
"I load my gun with love instead of bullets"
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KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
857
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Posted - 2013.11.11 11:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nobody ever said CCP/Shanghai was good at math.
Quite the opposite, in fact.
Back to you Keri and dropping the snark:
I like the sound of the Scrambler rifles because they sound Sci Fi to me.
This constant destruction of a weapon's attributes is tiring. They suck huge amounts of SP and then change the specs without even a 'oops, sorry'. Since SP resets are against the law of CCP/Shanghai and Nerf Overseer Wang this is yet another way to make you grind.
How much fun is that? Well, mostly none. Time to lower my rating on IGN. Again. |
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Mia Romani
Nexus Marines
28
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Posted - 2013.11.11 13:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Honestly, I think this is where their poor naming conventions are hurting them. The sooner they rename the Gallente rifles "Plasma Rifle", the better.
Assault, tactical, breach, etc are variations that can be applied to any rifle. Tactical being a longer range version, and plasma having the shortest range of any weapon system.
What we're calling the TAR, is just the tactical version of the plasma rifle. That directly translates to "the long range short range gun". It just doesn't make much sense at all as a weapon variant.
Personally, I would prefer to see TAR users given the option to swap their Gallente AR SP for Caldari AR SP and be done with it.
Interstellar Crossroads
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RINON114
B.S.A.A.
General Tso's Alliance
468
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Posted - 2013.11.11 15:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
I couldn't agree more with this thread. I am so tired of using the standard AR against duvolle bollocks (duvollocks) and getting destroyed at range. I switched to the TAR and I've just begun to enjoy the game again because I can keep targets suppresed at range. I hate the scrambler because I can't seem to get it to work (and I've been waiting for the rail rifle).
Making the TAR garbage (TARbage) and the duvollock's range even higher just seems like complete BS. The range of the rapid fire AR should have gone down a bit, not up. |
Eskel Bondfree
DUST University
Ivy League
165
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Posted - 2013.11.11 17:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Keri Starlight wrote:
It should be a competitive weapon even though if it's a variant, with the downsides of a much higher ISK cost (77.000 instead of 47.000 on PRO tier) and a more intensive SP sink (level 4 for the first model and Proficiency for PRO tier). It shouldn't be completely overshoadowed by the Scrambler Rifle, it should keep some reason to be used on the battlefield (this promotes variety and customization).
Of course every weapon should be competitive. But the different assault rifle classes exist so everyone has to make a choice: do they want to be better at range or better up close. If you chose the Gallente AR to be better up close, you have to accept that someone chosing to be better at range will always perform somewhat better, even if you use the long range variant of your weapon class.
I did not comment on the specific numbers, and whether or not the TAC will be competitive remains to be seen I guess. |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
687
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Posted - 2013.11.11 18:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Eskel Bondfree wrote:Keri Starlight wrote:
It should be a competitive weapon even though if it's a variant, with the downsides of a much higher ISK cost (77.000 instead of 47.000 on PRO tier) and a more intensive SP sink (level 4 for the first model and Proficiency for PRO tier). It shouldn't be completely overshoadowed by the Scrambler Rifle, it should keep some reason to be used on the battlefield (this promotes variety and customization).
Of course every weapon should be competitive. But the different assault rifle classes exist so everyone has to make a choice: do they want to be better at range or better up close. If you chose the Gallente AR to be better up close, you have to accept that someone chosing to be better at range will always perform somewhat better, even if you use the long range variant of your weapon class. I did not comment on the specific numbers, and whether or not the TAC will be competitive remains to be seen I guess.
The different will exist in game, soon. At that time it will be a matter of making an informed choice as to which weapon one wants to choose based on it's attributes and one's combat style.
However, as it is now, the only two variants are the SCR and the AR, with ranges that will be getting changed drastically. After the change, the TAR will no longer be an appropriate choice for longer range combat (as it stands now, it is fine in this role).
So, the complaint makes perfect sense to me. CCP is messing with the ranges in a way which make no sense for some variants: increasing automatic AR range; supposedly this is the Gallente plasma weapon that should excel in close range combat!? While simultaneously DECREASING the range of the longer range variant.
It's bollocks. Straight and simple. Some of this stuff looks whack on paper, and it would take some pretty off the wall other mechancis (dispersion, accuracy, kick) to make some of this reasonable.....
So, can we expect and hope for reason in terms of the attributes of these weapons which haven't been disclosed? |
Zero Notion
Wraith Company
312
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Posted - 2013.11.11 23:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
I believe that a significant portion of the issue lies in a simple fact; the game is currently unfinished, the mechanics are not working correctly and they are making adjustments across the board that will effect how the weapons themselves behave. Currently, the information we have is based upon the ranges and very little else. Things that impact the weapons i.e; recoil, dispersion, aim mechanics, scope variants, armor and shield, dropsuit variants and so on. As it stands, it does appear to be a frustrating collection of data that seems to represent exactly what many players feel to be a rising issue with the current AR and does nothing to address those complaints.
However, we don't know what else is in store. That, too, is a problem as when you decide to play the game you are not given appropriate decision making information that will help you invest your SP. Only after significant play time, investment and experience do you suddenly recognize that CCP still has not pulled Dust from Beta, there is no test server that is going to be able to help the devs and players to see what the state of the game may look like and that a refund of SP is a very, very small possibility.
I feel your pain. I've refused to invest SP into any proto suits at this time because of what I saw happen to the Caldari changes. I've invested in three proto level weapons, three level four and nearly every light weapon except AR and MD at advanced level simply out of the hope that I am going to have something to fall back onto when inevitable changes happen. I don't know if that is the intended goal for players that CCP and the Devs had in mind but it is either that or not spend any points at all and hope for a finished product before you lose interest in the game.
I do know that Dust is meant to represent a real time war simulation and changes do happen with technology that often gives one side an advantage over the other, new superior weapons are introduced and others become inferior, etc. But this is simply a constant shifting of raw mechanics that is leading to more and more frustration of the population. It blows. We all know it. We all try to find *something* that will reward us with a sense of enjoyment out of this game and more often than not, that enjoyment is somehow hammered by the shifting development.
My advice: don't learn to love your weapon or your dropsuit until the game appears more stable. Don't spend any money on the game. If you want changes to be made, protest by not giving them money and make them aware that this is unacceptable and that they cannot just give you a partially completed game without some sort of in game warning for the player that articulates that mechanics, weapons and dropsuits might change and thus may not behave in the manner that they do now and that the investment of your SP into such may not be refunded. |
Jacques Cayton II
Providence Guard
Templis Dragonaors
96
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Posted - 2013.11.12 00:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:low genius wrote:why did you leave all the relevant information about the other guns? you can't just take one example and make a case for yourself. Alright, so, let's look at those other weapons. Rail Rifle: Higher DPS. Very short spool up time. Significantly larger clip size. Significantly longer range. Recoil remains to be seen. Scrambler Rifle: So much more DPS it's not even funny. Similar shots before overheat to shots in the clip of a TAR. Significantly larger clip size. Significantly longer range. Less recoil. Assault Rifle: More DPS. Greater weighting to RoF than damage per shot, which is inherently more valuable. Comparable range. More damage per clip. Much less recoil. I'm not really sure the TAR wins in any of these categories.
Psst Caldari weapons are long range and deal damage but terrabad up close Gallentean weapons are godly up close but terrabad at distance
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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Draco Cerberus
Hell's Gate Inc
475
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Posted - 2013.11.12 00:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't want the AR to be nerfed, already I suffer Lasers, Scramblers and Forge guns to outrange and over power me when in the open, surely you are thinking about this backwards OP.
One Universe...with friendly fire for all!
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
371
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Posted - 2013.11.12 00:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:I don't want the AR to be nerfed, already I suffer Lasers, Scramblers and Forge guns to outrange and over power me when in the open, surely you are thinking about this backwards OP.
Templar'd for her pleasure
Amarr victor!
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