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RAider Vherikor
DUST CORE
Zero-Day
3
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Posted - 2013.11.10 16:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
DUST514 Corp Leaders are getting favoritism over EVE Corp Leaders.
Recently several of us have been doing very bad things to corps from within. Corp Espionage has been and should always be considered normal to meta game play in New Eden. it is part of what makes what we do special. We started our plans over months ago and started activation orders for agents on multiple corps in the last few days... In a true sandbox game if you don't do your homework you will get burned HARD. These corps were aligning against some groups we support and decided now was the time.
Recently in several espionage operations GMs have been stepping in to stop or delay corps with DUST members from being taken over rightfully by our team of crack black box operators using normal and well documented espionage methods which I will not go into here. This is an unfair protection of corps with DUST members. I will not post the GMs comments but suffice to say they are hand holding the corps with DUST members and intervening on their behalf to save them unfairly and at the same time CCP is hamstringing the Corps with DUST14 leadership unfairly.
Failure of the Build
Clearly all Corps and their leaders SHOULD definitely have access to their shares in EVE and DUST514. Majority DUST514 Corps should not have to have an EVE alt join them to become part of an alliance. Those however are not exploits they are failures of the game build at this time and much higher priority should be placed on getting the code written to allow corps to manage their corps on an equal basis with EVE corp leaders. Additionally EVE leaders should have the same parity to issue DUST specific roles which were recently introduced.
Definitely not an Exploit
At no point were any of the conspiring alts made CEO to cause the shares to be created in the first place, and in a true sandbox game if you do not do your homework and learn you will get burned. Let them burn. I was the second one in for every case, they all had EVE members besides me with experience and therefore we were operating clearly within the mechanics of the game. GMs jumping in the way they did shows favoritism for DUST514 members which paying EVE players NEVER get.
Examples:
This is me and a good example: A corp believes there is a bug and towards the end it comes out the espionage agent was really good at covering his tracks and the CEO/Director is unable to understand what is happening to him. How is this the espionage operators fault? It isn't. The purpose of Espionage involves sewing deception and confusion into their ranks to further cause issues. (as a side note, In their corp channel the corp members began threatening the my real life afterwards. Not the kind of people we want talking to kids who may be playing the game if you ask me. ) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119273&find=unread
Not me, but In this next case the CEO is reasonably expected to be upset, they just had their corp stolen, however they went and begged for help and were given an unfair protection from GMs because they "dont know the rules". If I did this in EVE I would have gotten a "Too bad man, HTFU." This espionage is clearly not an exploit as they had admitted to having a great deal of very experienced members in EVE in their corp the whole time, and the leaders were not very smart about their choices. (Also I contacted the guy responsible for this one, he describes their response as legendary in the rage posting from their whole alliance in their EVEmails to him for the last couple of days. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119973
Opportunity for Course Correction
So we ask for parity... Corps with DUST leadership should not get special treatment and protections and CCP should really consider putting a priority on ensuring equality and access to roles for EVE and DUST514 leaders managing a corp. Merge the EVE and DUST514 forums so DUST players are better able to learn the mechanics instead of isolated from everyone else. |
RAider Vherikor
DUST CORE
Zero-Day
7
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Posted - 2013.11.10 18:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:While a valid complaint you wont see any changes in behavior by ccp. You have to remember that ccp never intended to put corps into dust in the first place. The idea was that we were mercs and would work for eve corps. CCP changed course late in closed beta because of csm and player complaints. CCP agreed to give us corps but said it would be limited and cause restrictions. We accepted that moved on. CCP slowly added functionality to dust to support corps such as roles, tax, etc. That said there is still a lot of functionality that only eve players have with corps and alliances that dust doesn't, not to mention NO API. CCP also mentioned many times that since funcationality is available to dust via eve that because of limited resources that's good enough.
So add that all up and you will see ccp protect dust corps and players.
CCPs failure to get player feed back and ensuring a more effective build before release is not on the table. That would in the past and is no longer relevant.
The game is made, it is live, the mess is made. Now CCP need to clean it up and the posting clearly describes the situation and outlines general opportunities to fix it without telling them how to write their code. More players in EVE and DUST514 should weigh in if they want specifics fixed.
Our goal here is to prevent unfair protections for corps from the meta game because a leader happens to be in DUST and to bring clearly to the forefront the lack of parity between leaders roles in DUST514 and EVE so they realize it should be a priority as well.
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RAider Vherikor
DUST CORE
Zero-Day
7
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Posted - 2013.11.10 18:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:RAider Vherikor wrote:Free Beers wrote:While a valid complaint you wont see any changes in behavior by ccp. You have to remember that ccp never intended to put corps into dust in the first place. The idea was that we were mercs and would work for eve corps. CCP changed course late in closed beta because of csm and player complaints. CCP agreed to give us corps but said it would be limited and cause restrictions. We accepted that moved on. CCP slowly added functionality to dust to support corps such as roles, tax, etc. That said there is still a lot of functionality that only eve players have with corps and alliances that dust doesn't, not to mention NO API. CCP also mentioned many times that since funcationality is available to dust via eve that because of limited resources that's good enough.
So add that all up and you will see ccp protect dust corps and players. CCPs failure to get player feed back and ensuring a more effective build before release is not on the table. That would in the past and is no longer relevant. The game is made, it is live, the mess is made. Now CCP need to clean it up and the posting clearly describes the situation and outlines general opportunities to fix it without telling them how to write their code. More players in EVE and DUST514 should weigh in if they want specifics fixed. Our goal here is to prevent unfair protections for corps from the meta game because a leader happens to be in DUST and to bring clearly to the forefront the lack of parity between leaders roles in DUST514 and EVE so they realize it should be a priority as well. You mean your goal is to use the fact that dust players cant see shares or share issuance to take over a corp. Your plan didn't work and now you are here to cry about it. Boo-fu*****-who For the record ccp is listening to player feedback about stuff related to ACTUAL gameplay not eve nerds ability to jerk off over their meta game L33tness.
Your comments lack support and sophistication.
These corps had several EVE players who were considered experienced and leaders. One of which was an alt of the CEO.
Take this advice seriously: The Meta Game is actual game play, and it is a big part of DUST514 now... get used to it.
This is not bad... This is small, and we know much larger groups plan much bigger scams than we can pull off.
Even bigger meta games are coming. Just wait for the first few rounds of economic warfare to start and how much its going to cost DUST514 mercs when the mechanic makes it possible. |
RAider Vherikor
DUST CORE
7
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Posted - 2013.11.10 21:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
G Torq wrote:RAider Vherikor wrote: (lots of blablabla) Dear RAider (sic), You are failing to understand that, at least for now, Dust514 and EVE Online are 2 separate games, even if they share backend components. This sharing of backends are causing some "opportunities" (corps, orbitals etc), but due to how the games are separate in design and goals, part of that backend is a hindrance (EVE Shares, director-roles et al), and CCP have decided, at least for now, to insulate Dust514 from it. This insulation is partly due to lack of implementation, and partly by design, and they are following through on this such that they are taking manual steps to uphold it. They are not doing this because it is fun for them, but because this is where the system is at this point,, and they have to ensure a viable system. The faster you accept this, the happier you will be, and who knows....perhaps CCP will eventually extend the Corporation functions on the Dust, at which point they will likely let you run wild with hostile take-overs and whatnut.
I am fairly certain I am up to speed and understand fully the implications. To say the games are separate would be far from correct and a complete fallacy. They share far more than back-ends and that is what everyone needs to understand.
Social groups exist across the platforms and do so currently and definitely work together. Those social groups which cross both gaming platforms and do so very well are inherently in a much better place than those which are not.
The platforms are different but are no longer truly separate games when one game can impact the other and vice versa, which they do across social, political, economic, and other lines.
Looking at this from a purely tactical view and not also examining what is already happening at the operational and strategic levels will cause this system to break if parity is not created quickly.
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RAider Vherikor
DUST CORE
8
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Posted - 2013.11.10 21:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Free Beers wrote: We have known about this for over a year that dust was not getting share visibility or functionality. So why are you crying about it now? I tried to explain that when ccp added dust corps they piggy backed eve functionality. CCP has no intentions and sees no game play value from a dust perspective to include shares functionality. It's not going to change because you are throwing a temper tantrum over it either.
like I said save some face and let it go.
I will be ignoring Free Beer's further attempts as a pontificating forum sniper.
For clarity, I am not the one having a tantrum... the corps getting burned by me and my buddies are. We just want to give them every opportunity to have equality and vice versa.
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