DUST Search - [Idea] Cover system/defensive-play

Awry Barux wrote:

Absoliav wrote:

Awry Barux wrote:

Uhh, it has at least some defensive play. Ever tried storming a building full of Gal Logis and Wiyrkomi triage hives?

I assume that's like driving a LAV full speed into a Madruger! Lol

Player innovation in Dust is quite admirable, your example is shows this greatly, but such ridicules scenarios could be avoided if Dust had some sort of defensive-maneuvers to counteract such gameplay with proper stratagem, I know CCP never planed for things to get like this, but as this game keeps going and more weapons are released, the game will look more and more like a arena/arcade-shooter than a tactical-FPS.

CCP has stated in the past that they prefer a longer TTK- the state of the game right now is not really what CCP intended, but they had to see how the hit detection fixes would work live before they can balance weapons around the new working hit detection. Lengthening TTK will go a long way towards returning tactics to their rightful place in Dust.

In any case, the cover system you describe seems to involve 3rd person camera and seeing around walls, which I am strongly against. At this point, there's plenty of good cover on most maps, often in the form of armored railings that allow you to stick your head out and plink away. We don't need a cover system shoehorned on, particularly when CCP just finally got the game mechanics feeling solid. Let them release all the racial content, a p2p market, and FW 2.0- then we can consider major game-flow changes like this.

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Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2013.11.07 05:54:00 - [1] - Quote I know this topic has been brought up before, and I know some might not like the idea, but here I go. Dust in it's current state lacks any means of actual defense, many FPSs have some sort of defensive idea that supports the games playstyle, the basic idea of offense and defense can be found in most FPS games, Counter-Strike, limited play space that uses positioning, team-tactics to combat it's quick reaction skirmishes, Gears of War, complex terrain maps used for cover, which supports both offensive advancements and defensive line gameplay, COD (ignoring perks/killstreaks), limited play space, that supports twitch-style gameplay and fast pace movement, moment is king, unless you're a camper :P All these games have different playstyles with have different approaches to offensive-play and defensive-play that supports the game's idea of combat, Dust only makes use of DPS versus EHP, which is the most basic form of combat scenarios. So, I propose we change that by adding more approaches to combat by adding some sort of cover system. A good start would be to make use anything that reaches a players chest, while crouching next to it the player adopts a better view of his situation, the game would adjust his view so he can see just whats ahead of him, while his opponent wouldn't be able to see the player until they aim or hipfires. Pretty basic, right, all weapons affected by recoil wold suffer a smaller firing penalty, which would allow higher base recoil to be implemented to infantry weapons, it would also make area denial weapons more valuable by giving them more use than just killing people out in the open. This is just a basic idea to get some sort of defensive-play in Dust, defense is non-existent, offensive-play involves standing out in the open and defensive-play involves standing out in the open, this works for arcade shooters like Halo and Unreal Tournament, but Dust is not that type of game. The best comparison I could fine to what I've described is Killzone 3's cover mechanics, it was simple and easy to use, while not breaking the flow of gamplay. I hope this made sense and was easy to understand, I also hope the Dust community agrees with me on the topic and that CCP will consider revising the current approach to combat.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 275	Posted - 2013.11.07 05:57:00 - [2] - Quote Uhh, it has at least some defensive play. Ever tried storming a building full of Gal Logis and Wiyrkomi triage hives?
Meeko Fent Xer Cloud Consortium 1428	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:13:00 - [3] - Quote Ehh. A cover system would work if we died in 3 shots. But since people would just get hit once or twice and duck back into cover, it would make stalemates. Improve crouching speed. It is in desperate need for love. Meeko's Novelty Shop Opening Soon! We (will)sell all the novelty items you desire! Really! King of Uncertainty.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:14:00 - [4] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Uhh, it has at least some defensive play. Ever tried storming a building full of Gal Logis and Wiyrkomi triage hives? I assume that's like driving a LAV full speed into a Madruger! Player innovation in Dust is quite admirable, your example is shows this greatly, but such ridicules scenarios could be avoided if Dust had some sort of defensive-maneuvers to counteract such gameplay with proper stratagem, I know CCP never planed for things to get like this, but as this game keeps going and more weapons are released, the game will look more and more like a arena/arcade-shooter than a tactical-FPS.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:20:00 - [5] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Ehh. A cover system would work if we died in 3 shots. But since people would just get hit once or twice and duck back into cover, it would make stalemates. Improve crouching speed. It is in desperate need for love. We don't die in three shots, but we can die in one second by a militia AR rather easily, we also have weapon/tools to prevent such stalemates, grenades, mass drivers, plasma cannons, and scanners if used correctly. We currently have plenty of ways to flush enemies out of cover, but we currently have no way to maintain cover, which is just sad. I do agree, we could use some improvements to crouching , but I'll save my opinions for another time.
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 276	Posted - 2013.11.07 06:35:00 - [6] - Quote Absoliav wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Uhh, it has at least some defensive play. Ever tried storming a building full of Gal Logis and Wiyrkomi triage hives? I assume that's like driving a LAV full speed into a Madruger! Player innovation in Dust is quite admirable, your example is shows this greatly, but such ridicules scenarios could be avoided if Dust had some sort of defensive-maneuvers to counteract such gameplay with proper stratagem, I know CCP never planed for things to get like this, but as this game keeps going and more weapons are released, the game will look more and more like a arena/arcade-shooter than a tactical-FPS. CCP has stated in the past that they prefer a longer TTK- the state of the game right now is not really what CCP intended, but they had to see how the hit detection fixes would work live before they can balance weapons around the new working hit detection. Lengthening TTK will go a long way towards returning tactics to their rightful place in Dust. In any case, the cover system you describe seems to involve 3rd person camera and seeing around walls, which I am strongly against. At this point, there's plenty of good cover on most maps, often in the form of armored railings that allow you to stick your head out and plink away. We don't need a cover system shoehorned on, particularly when CCP just finally got the game mechanics feeling solid. Let them release all the racial content, a p2p market, and FW 2.0- then we can consider major game-flow changes like this.
Absoliav Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 87	Posted - 2013.11.07 07:09:00 - [7] - Quote Awry Barux wrote: Absoliav wrote: Awry Barux wrote: Uhh, it has at least some defensive play. Ever tried storming a building full of Gal Logis and Wiyrkomi triage hives? I assume that's like driving a LAV full speed into a Madruger! Player innovation in Dust is quite admirable, your example is shows this greatly, but such ridicules scenarios could be avoided if Dust had some sort of defensive-maneuvers to counteract such gameplay with proper stratagem, I know CCP never planed for things to get like this, but as this game keeps going and more weapons are released, the game will look more and more like a arena/arcade-shooter than a tactical-FPS. CCP has stated in the past that they prefer a longer TTK- the state of the game right now is not really what CCP intended, but they had to see how the hit detection fixes would work live before they can balance weapons around the new working hit detection. Lengthening TTK will go a long way towards returning tactics to their rightful place in Dust. In any case, the cover system you describe seems to involve 3rd person camera and seeing around walls, which I am strongly against. At this point, there's plenty of good cover on most maps, often in the form of armored railings that allow you to stick your head out and plink away. We don't need a cover system shoehorned on, particularly when CCP just finally got the game mechanics feeling solid. Let them release all the racial content, a p2p market, and FW 2.0- then we can consider major game-flow changes like this. The best comparison I can make is Killzone 3, which didn't feature a 3rd perspective, and had features similar to what I described, if you look up some of the multiplayer vids you'll see what I mean. You are 100% right, we don't need anymore core gamplay changes right now, but this idea is aimed more towards the future of Dust, when ever they decide to bring up another build change like Uprising, the last thing I'd like to see is another good idea tacked on the game like the Commando. Also, if you you wouldn't mind linking me to your source on that CCP statement I'd really appreciate it, it's comforting to know something is being done about the current TTK.


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