DUST Search - Knives-- do they suck?

Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:

OZAROW wrote:

Dude that was brutal, if ccp doesn't look at this an give use machete s were screwed .
That heavy near the end you hit in the back of the head shoulda dropped no doubt about it

After rewatching it I do sound a little brutal in parts, but this sort of stuff needs to be said. This is supposed to be the staple of this suit and it's worthless in it's current state. It auto-gimps the suit. Fix the weapon, or fix the bonus. I've spent a lot of hours in this suit trying to get it's bonus to be worth while and I cannot drink my own coolaid and pretend it's worth it.

Knives should be high skill, high reward. The damage is good. But to be a 0m shotgun with a charge time and a ridiculously small strike zone with no assistance that cannot be used while sprinting is ridiculous.

I know I'm probably going to die when I go in for a knife so I try as hard as I can. I don't care about the isk, or my KD. I do it because it's exciting get that close to someone. To be robbed of the work it took to get there, to dodge their shots, and get in their face... To be robbed of that due to an unreliable weapon is bullkitten.

This injustice will not stand! Pirate

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Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1623	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:26:00 - [1] - Quote My thoughts on the current iteration of nova knives, sidearms, and scout suits. http://youtu.be/BYb5gh0agSY too lazy; didn't watch- yes they suck. Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4957	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:41:00 - [2] - Quote I feel no difference between now and back in 1.5. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1624	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:43:00 - [3] - Quote Honestly I just get less blue flare. That's it. Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1061	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:53:00 - [4] - Quote Dude that was brutal, if ccp doesn't look at this an give use machete s were screwed . That heavy near the end you hit in the back of the head shoulda dropped no doubt about it
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1446	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:55:00 - [5] - Quote Great video :) I'm not a good enough knifer/scout to realize the difference cause I'm lucky to even get close enough to be shotgun distance from a redberry. _(* *)> 194th <( . )> <--it's a penguin ~'''~'''~
VAHZZ The dyst0pian Corporation 22	Posted - 2013.11.05 21:56:00 - [6] - Quote The knives are too dull, they have collected so much dust they have become rusty..just a good cleaning is all they need. > Master of the Sniper and rookie NKer "I'll show you fear and madness"
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1629	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:04:00 - [7] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Great video :) I'm not a good enough knifer/scout to realize the difference cause I'm lucky to even get close enough to be shotgun distance from a redberry. Well, honestly, stick with a shotty right now, more reliable and you don't have to get 0m from someone. I tore things up with my standard shotty earlier like it was my proto. I am happy about that one. Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1962	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:04:00 - [8] - Quote Impressive as always, Moody. o7 Excellent commentary; excellent conclusion. Bummed to hear that Knives aren't working any better for you guys. So beautiful in concept ... Ninja sneaks up from behind ... Ninja wins. Could be another case of "oops, we'll fix it tomorrow" ... anyone word from CCP or CPM?
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1446	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:08:00 - [9] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: Great video :) I'm not a good enough knifer/scout to realize the difference cause I'm lucky to even get close enough to be shotgun distance from a redberry. Well, honestly, stick with a shotty right now, more reliable and you don't have to get 0m from someone. I tore things up with my standard shotty earlier like it was my proto. I am happy about that one. Yes, I do love my basic shotgun, my fav kill was when I ran down a hill, hopped over a guy and OHK him in midair.....or the ones were I lure a heavy to my RE trap......especially the proto ones _(* *)> 194th <( . )> <--it's a penguin ~'''~'''~
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1864	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:12:00 - [10] - Quote Yes. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja. Forum Warrior level 1 Tryhard Veteran

Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1629	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:25:00 - [11] - Quote OZAROW wrote: Dude that was brutal, if ccp doesn't look at this an give use machete s were screwed . That heavy near the end you hit in the back of the head shoulda dropped no doubt about it After rewatching it I do sound a little brutal in parts, but this sort of stuff needs to be said. This is supposed to be the staple of this suit and it's worthless in it's current state. It auto-gimps the suit. Fix the weapon, or fix the bonus. I've spent a lot of hours in this suit trying to get it's bonus to be worth while and I cannot drink my own coolaid and pretend it's worth it. Knives should be high skill, high reward. The damage is good. But to be a 0m shotgun with a charge time and a ridiculously small strike zone with no assistance that cannot be used while sprinting is ridiculous. I know I'm probably going to die when I go in for a knife so I try as hard as I can. I don't care about the isk, or my KD. I do it because it's exciting get that close to someone. To be robbed of the work it took to get there, to dodge their shots, to be robbed of it due to an unreliable weapon is bullkitten. This injustice will not stand! Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
Jak'Saan 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 63	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:33:00 - [12] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: My thoughts on the current iteration of nova knives, sidearms, and scout suits. http://youtu.be/BYb5gh0agSY too lazy; didn't watch- yes they suck. Moody, in your video 5:50 - Exactly true. sadly something I only discovered last night! While I can still do very well with a min scout, it is literally just difficult for the sake of being difficult. No benefits what-so-ever (small speed boost which as you say is negligible). So sad that I just discovered this last night and previous to that I thought min scout was the bomb! but really it's just a pretty suit. Gal does min better than min does min. hell... dragon fly gal does min better than adv min does min... this is a sad day for this min loyalist.
Quil Evrything DUST University Ivy League 347	Posted - 2013.11.05 22:47:00 - [13] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1466960 feature request for two very small knife changes, that would make a HUGE diffrence in play, I think you'll agree.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1965	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:16:00 - [14] - Quote How to Fix: 1) Add lunge or pounce mechanic. 2) Widen hit registration arc. 3) Extend Nova Knife blade length (effective range). 4) Permit charge while sprinting. 5) Address "choppy" target tracking within Knife Range. 6) Reduce non-Scout mobility / increase Scout mobility. * To be considered and weighed individually, not cumulatively.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 120	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:19:00 - [15] - Quote This sucks. L4 Minnie scout racial skill counts for jack when you can't land a blow. Please check it out CCP...I really want my Minnie to be a good choice.
Eldest Dragon 0uter.Heaven Proficiency V. 343	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:20:00 - [16] - Quote Nice vid bro, and your right the knives are extremely difficult to use, and in no way can the be a finishing weapon. I was about to finish specing into min scout and knives, but after trying them out this morning, I think i've changed my mind unfortunately. The worst part is, I don't want to sg or rather just sg, I started specing into min scout specifically for knives guess I just wasted some more sp. I am a drug addict I do dust everyday...its the #1 drug for birth control...just ask my gf.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1966	Posted - 2013.11.05 23:36:00 - [17] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: After rewatching it I do sound a little brutal in parts, but this sort of stuff needs to be said... Truth is truth, whether or not it sounds pleasant. Your commentary was spot on. You have every right to be annoyed.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2379	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:00:00 - [18] - Quote The Nova Knives are not a main weapon though. They are a side arm. If used as a sidearm, they make a lot more sense. I use them on my Caldari fit to finish off heavies, kill snipers and hackers. To be honest, it is a very good sidearm in these regards. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Admonishment The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo 21	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:03:00 - [19] - Quote It really needs some type of forward slash movement and a slightly wider arc for attacking. Or give us the ability to finally be able to attack and run at the same time. Really dont understand how why you aren't able to run and attack with a knife if its lightweight lol. Some people would say that's OP but them having the ability to instantly spray down you from 60+ meters away isn't lol. I used the knives for a very long time and even with patience it is still annoying to use at times. Way to much effort just to be able to hit someone when you can just use a shotgun with better results. All they have to do is slightly move and you end up missing completely. They are fun to use at times but its still annoying to do all that work for one kill and someone can just as easily hip-fire and finish them with a stay bullet after all that effort. If you can catch them off guard when they aren't strafing side to side at 100 mph its nice but other than that its almost worthless. No way that would be a finishing weapon unless the person was completely clueless to knowing how to move lol that kinda ruins the point if they already know you are coming at them. You would be better off just throwing a rock at them. Until some movement mechanic is given to help knives I would never use them seriously, but damn it is nice when you manage to get someone with them lol. For the Principality of Zeon!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4959	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:32:00 - [20] - Quote Thanks for posting that video. Yes, the comments you made about the knives are brutal, but they are true comments that point out the flaws of the knives none the less. I'm glad that Gallente scouts, Amarr heavies, commandos, and logibros finally got the love they deserve and I am happy for the Shotgunners out there but the Minmatar scouts and their nova knives need equal loving immediately. And yes, I also find it pathetic that all it takes for someone to dodge your knife is by either stepping one foot to the left or just simply backpedaling as they shoot you. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4959	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:36:00 - [21] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Nova Knives are not a main weapon though. They are a side arm. If used as a sidearm, they make a lot more sense. I use them on my Caldari fit to finish off heavies, kill snipers and hackers. To be honest, it is a very good sidearm in these regards. You're half right. They are only good sidearms if you suck with it. But if you're like me and have dedicated well over an entire year in making it become your primary weapon and be good at it, don't you think that at that point the nova knives should become equally effective (if not just as effective) for you as an assault rifle would? CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2379	Posted - 2013.11.06 00:44:00 - [22] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Nova Knives are not a main weapon though. They are a side arm. If used as a sidearm, they make a lot more sense. I use them on my Caldari fit to finish off heavies, kill snipers and hackers. To be honest, it is a very good sidearm in these regards. You're half right. They are only good sidearms if you suck with it. But if you're like me and have dedicated well over an entire year in making it become your primary weapon and be good at it, don't you think that at that point the nova knives should become equally effective (if not just as effective) for you as an assault rifle would? No, at least not in every aspect as a main weapon. The main infantry killing weapon I've invested in is the SMG. I have the Ishukone Assault SMG. It is amazing, but it is no AR or Laser Rifle. A simple fight against a good player with a MAR proves it. At the end of the day, they are side arms. Yeah, you can pull off great scores, but at the end of the day, they are meant to complement your primary. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1634	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:11:00 - [23] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Nova Knives are not a main weapon though. They are a side arm. If used as a sidearm, they make a lot more sense. I use them on my Caldari fit to finish off heavies, kill snipers and hackers. To be honest, it is a very good sidearm in these regards. A side arm that cannot kill anything but a stationary, stupid, or slow target reliably. Even the fatties are unreliable kills when you're in a scout suit. Remember what's merely a sidearm to you is the staple of another racial variant's build. Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
DeadlyAztec11 Gallente Federation 2379	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:35:00 - [24] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Nova Knives are not a main weapon though. They are a side arm. If used as a sidearm, they make a lot more sense. I use them on my Caldari fit to finish off heavies, kill snipers and hackers. To be honest, it is a very good sidearm in these regards. A side arm that cannot kill anything but a stationary, stupid, or slow target reliably. Even the fatties are unreliable kills when you're in a scout suit. Remember what's merely a sidearm to you is the staple of another racial variant's build. How so? I get increased ammo for my SideArm by using the Minmatar Assault. Does this mean that my build should rely around it? Keep in mind that I am playing Devil's Advocate. Madness is the emergency exit. You can just step outside, and close the door on all those dreadful things that happened.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1634	Posted - 2013.11.06 01:45:00 - [25] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Nova Knives are not a main weapon though. They are a side arm. If used as a sidearm, they make a lot more sense. I use them on my Caldari fit to finish off heavies, kill snipers and hackers. To be honest, it is a very good sidearm in these regards. A side arm that cannot kill anything but a stationary, stupid, or slow target reliably. Even the fatties are unreliable kills when you're in a scout suit. Remember what's merely a sidearm to you is the staple of another racial variant's build. How so? I get increased ammo for my SideArm by using the Minmatar Assault. Does this mean that my build should rely around it? Keep in mind that I am playing Devil's Advocate. Gladly will. I have a proto minnie assault. Yes, my build on my assault is focused on the side arm bonus. It's not about relying it's about making use. It's about efficiency. While that bonus in particular is broad, the scout only covers the nova knife. Which has such a small niche of uses. It put's an already weak suit at a greater disadvantage than suits with bonuses that actually help them. Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4963	Posted - 2013.11.06 02:31:00 - [26] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: The Nova Knives are not a main weapon though. They are a side arm. If used as a sidearm, they make a lot more sense. I use them on my Caldari fit to finish off heavies, kill snipers and hackers. To be honest, it is a very good sidearm in these regards. You're half right. They are only good sidearms if you suck with it. But if you're like me and have dedicated well over an entire year in making it become your primary weapon and be good at it, don't you think that at that point the nova knives should become equally effective (if not just as effective) for you as an assault rifle would? No, at least not in every aspect as a main weapon. The main infantry killing weapon I've invested in is the SMG. I have the Ishukone Assault SMG. It is amazing, but it is no AR or Laser Rifle. A simple fight against a good player with a MAR proves it. At the end of the day, they are side arms. Yeah, you can pull off great scores, but at the end of the day, they are meant to complement your primary. I respect your choice to believe that, but I will forever see and treat the nova knives as my primary weapon. Those knives brought me more respect from even my own victims than what the assault rifle could ever promise because of the skill it takes to master them. They also present the ultimate challenge to the user for reasons that everyone else knows. That said, no other weapon will satisfy me more than the nova knives. You can go ahead and treat the knives as just standard sidearms, but I will treat them as primaries. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
OZAROW WarRavens League of Infamy 1066	Posted - 2013.11.06 04:44:00 - [27] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: OZAROW wrote: Dude that was brutal, if ccp doesn't look at this an give use machete s were screwed . That heavy near the end you hit in the back of the head shoulda dropped no doubt about it After rewatching it I do sound a little brutal in parts, but this sort of stuff needs to be said. This is supposed to be the staple of this suit and it's worthless in it's current state. It auto-gimps the suit. Fix the weapon, or fix the bonus. I've spent a lot of hours in this suit trying to get it's bonus to be worth while and I cannot drink my own coolaid and pretend it's worth it. Knives should be high skill, high reward. The damage is good. But to be a 0m shotgun with a charge time and a ridiculously small strike zone with no assistance that cannot be used while sprinting is ridiculous. I know I'm probably going to die when I go in for a knife so I try as hard as I can. I don't care about the isk, or my KD. I do it because it's exciting get that close to someone. To be robbed of the work it took to get there, to dodge their shots, and get in their face... To be robbed of that due to an unreliable weapon is bullkitten. This injustice will not stand! I didnt find the comments brutal, the video itself is the brutal truth of how bad they are, I never use the z28 myself due to misses but I see no changes in today's fixes, I think we all expected more, the other thing is it feels like the knive range is just the blade not a arms length an blade, the target should turn red from a much further distance so that if they wiggle they dOnt disappear from your vision. To me that's what makes it almost impossible to skillfully hit a mover, you can't track them. If it had range like a step and swing and backand a longer blade, your target would be red from almost3m away. 3ft step, arm length 2ft blade with handle They shouldn't even be called knives, at least the word dagger gives the impression of more length
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 301	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:28:00 - [28] - Quote Yea the fix feels more like a ninja nerf. The range has actually decreased since 1.3 and even more since 1.5. I feel this fix only reduced the range and therefore now I have to be so close that I can't see if I'm hitting the merc, or if there are actual hit detection issues. For comparison sake. Here is a 1.3 montage I did when knives were still functional http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5enAXejfk PHI Recruitment or PHIsh Tank in game Twitch
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4971	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:32:00 - [29] - Quote @OZAROW I would rather call them Bayonets if you want to give an idea of their size. If you look at them those blades look almost as long as my forearm. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Cyrius Li-Moody The New Age Outlaws WINMATAR. 1639	Posted - 2013.11.06 05:41:00 - [30] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Yea the fix feels more like a ninja nerf. The range has actually decreased since 1.3 and even more since 1.5. I feel this fix only reduced the range and therefore now I have to be so close that I can't see if I'm hitting the merc, or if there are actual hit detection issues. For comparison sake. Here is a 1.3 montage I did when knives were still functional http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5enAXejfk You killed a dude at 3m in that video. Not even a minute in. Also, good slicing. o7 Check out & sub my youtube. Yay!



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