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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1223
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Posted - 2013.11.03 22:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm a big fan of burst rifles as, in general, they're more accurate than automatic weapons. Most have a scope of some sort and are more effective at longer ranges.
I'm hoping that the combat rifle is awesome like this, but I'm slightly confused looking at the stats for the burst AR in the game right now.
Why does the adv version only do 32 damage per shot when the regular AR does 36? Shouldn't it be the other way around, where each bullet of the burst rifle means more? Sure, the RoF is slightly higher (about 80 more rpm), but in reality the regular AR can fire off all 60 rounds in much less time than the burst.
I don't know how many games you have played, but every other burst rifle I've used does a TON of damage per hit, with the downside of smaller clips, more reloading, having to stay at longer ranges, and a poor hipfire.
What gives? Why is the normal AR more accurate and more deadly than the burst at range? Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to be proper balancing?
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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
906
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Posted - 2013.11.03 22:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I'm a big fan of burst rifles as, in general, they're more accurate than automatic weapons. Most have a scope of some sort and are more effective at longer ranges.
I'm hoping that the combat rifle is awesome like this, but I'm slightly confused looking at the stats for the burst AR in the game right now.
Why does the adv version only do 32 damage per shot when the regular AR does 36? Shouldn't it be the other way around, where each bullet of the burst rifle means more? Sure, the RoF is slightly higher (about 80 more rpm), but in reality the regular AR can fire off all 60 rounds in much less time than the burst.
I don't know how many games you have played, but every other burst rifle I've used does a TON of damage per hit, with the downside of smaller clips, more reloading, having to stay at longer ranges, and a poor hipfire.
What gives? Why is the normal AR more accurate and more deadly than the burst at range? Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to be proper balancing?
It would appear the AR was never really a place holder. The AR is gallantean its burst variant is a copy of the minmatar rifle so the gallantean burst will be terrible but the Mini should be able to hold a slightly higher damage per shot, for a similar DPS
The pen is mightier than the sword
The gun is mightier than both
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
496
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Posted - 2013.11.04 00:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1706
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 00:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Both the advanced AR and the advanced burst AR do 446 DPS. I think they were balanced to do the same DPS to counter using modded controllers but that just hurt the majority that would use the weapon.
If I'm doing the math correctly the assault combat rifle will be doing 440 but the regular, burst version will be doing 672. The 1.7 weapon stats post doesn't mention damage updates for the existing weapons. I wonder if they've been tweaked at all. The Gallente Burst AR should be doing more damage.
That combat rifle looks like it's going to be a beast if it can get inside the optimal of the Scrambler. |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1227
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Posted - 2013.11.04 00:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:Both the advanced AR and the advanced burst AR do 446 DPS. I think they were balanced to do the same DPS to counter using modded controllers but that just hurt the majority that would use the weapon.
If I'm doing the math correctly the assault combat rifle will be doing 440 but the regular, burst version will be doing 672. The 1.7 weapon stats post doesn't mention damage updates for the existing weapons. I wonder if they've been tweaked at all. The Gallente Burst AR should be doing more damage.
That combat rifle looks like it's going to be a beast if it can get inside the optimal of the Scrambler.
446 dps...if there wasn't a delay between each burst. The delay seems about as long as the burst itself, so it only does half the damage that the AR does.
Can't wait for the combat rifle.
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
523
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Posted - 2013.11.04 00:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. Ummmm, what? The burst pistol is still a three burst. The burst ar used to be a 7 burst, now its a 3 |
I-Shayz-I
I-----I
1228
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. Ummmm, what? The burst pistol is still a three burst. The burst ar used to be a 7 burst, now its a 3
Used to be 5, not 7 lol.
5 round burst was weird to some people so they changed it, which makes me realize that the reason the burst feels so weird now is not because of the scope or whatever, but because I was so used to being able to punch 5 rounds into someone skull instead of 3.
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Himiko Kuronaga
MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN.
2111
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Single shots should do more damage than burst, which should do more damage than automatic.
It's an incredibly basic FPS formula.
Then again, we're dealing with people who thought a sidearm with huge damage and a massive splash radius was a "difficult to use skill shot weapon".
You aren't going to get predictable results here. These people do not play first person shooters like we do, and the few who do are not in a design position. |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2560
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
I counted 7 shots back when the burst AR had a longer burst.
The newer the berry the dumber the juice.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
7122
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Single shots should do more damage than burst, which should do more damage than automatic.
It's an incredibly basic FPS formula.
Then again, we're dealing with people who thought a sidearm with huge damage and a massive splash radius was a "difficult to use skill shot weapon".
You aren't going to get predictable results here. These people do not play first person shooters like we do, and the few who do are not in a design position. And they're listening to people that only play modern military FPS that lack any creativity.
I tried to put a level into Amarr Commando once, but got a server notification saying "Why?"
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Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
497
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Posted - 2013.11.04 01:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. Ummmm, what? The burst pistol is still a three burst. The burst ar used to be a 7 burst, now its a 3
The CAR-9 is a two-shot gun now,and I'll bet you 150 ISK on that.As a matter of fact,I'm pretty sure that they even made it harder to get to,being that you have to have your Scrambler Pistol Operation at level IV now,when it use to be level III.Also,they completely removed the standard burst pistol as well,making it even more of a waste to get it,if you really liked it in Chromosome,like I did.
I know people that were using the Allotek burst AR,and they claimed that it was a seven shot,but now it's a five shot.I can't personally attest to that,being that I think I only once used an Allotek burst AR. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
523
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 02:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. Ummmm, what? The burst pistol is still a three burst. The burst ar used to be a 7 burst, now its a 3 The CAR-9 is a two-shot gun now,and I'll bet you 150 ISK on that.As a matter of fact,I'm pretty sure that they even made it harder to get to,being that you have to have your Scrambler Pistol Operation at level IV now,when it use to be level III (EDIT: According to an IGN Dust 514 Wiki page,it's was lvl II).Also,they completely removed the standard burst pistol as well,making it even more of a waste to get it,if you really liked it in Chromosome,like I did. I know people that were using the Allotek burst AR,and they claimed that it was a seven shot,but now it's a five shot.I can't personally attest to that,being that I think I only once used an Allotek burst AR. Nope, its the only secondary i use so i know. It has 17 rounds withs scrambler pistol operation lvl 5 so its 3-3-3-3-3-2. The last burst in the mag is 2 burst because of the odd mag size. Burst ar is a 3 shot now currently |
Sephirian Fair
0uter.Heaven Proficiency V.
123
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. Ummmm, what? The burst pistol is still a three burst. The burst ar used to be a 7 burst, now its a 3 Used to be 5, not 7 lol. 5 round burst was weird to some people so they changed it, which makes me realize that the reason the burst feels so weird now is not because of the scope or whatever, but because I was so used to being able to punch 5 rounds into someone skull instead of 3.
No, it was 7. I used the Allotek Burst religiously at the end of Chromosome. It was the best CQC gun in the game because the 7 round burst did a hell of a lot of damage and the weapon could take advantage of the 900+ RPM it had. The new 3 round burst has proven to be far less effective because the TTK in Dust is far higher than other games where a single burst or two was enough to kill. That and there is a very weird delay now between shots that cause the Uprising burst to be unable to take advantage of it's RPM. Probably a fail safe against modded controllers, but it makes it very difficult to optimize the RoF. |
Th3rdSun
L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder.
497
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 02:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. Ummmm, what? The burst pistol is still a three burst. The burst ar used to be a 7 burst, now its a 3 The CAR-9 is a two-shot gun now,and I'll bet you 150 ISK on that.As a matter of fact,I'm pretty sure that they even made it harder to get to,being that you have to have your Scrambler Pistol Operation at level IV now,when it use to be level III (EDIT: According to an IGN Dust 514 Wiki page,it's was lvl II).Also,they completely removed the standard burst pistol as well,making it even more of a waste to get it,if you really liked it in Chromosome,like I did. I know people that were using the Allotek burst AR,and they claimed that it was a seven shot,but now it's a five shot.I can't personally attest to that,being that I think I only once used an Allotek burst AR. Nope, its the only secondary i use so i know. It has 17 rounds withs scrambler pistol operation lvl 5 so its 3-3-3-3-3-2. The last burst in the mag is 2 burst because of the odd mag size. Burst ar is a 3 shot now currently
Put your money where your mouth is then,because I bet that I use them more than you do,especially since I have proficiency to lvl 4. |
Nyx Linx
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Automatic weapons are for noobs and should have a damage decrease. I'm currently skilling the AR for the burst and TAC version. They are way more expensive than the regular AR and the regular AR is more effective!!!
The way gunplay works in this game is weird. You rely on your armor so you just move side to side and hope to kill the guy before he kills you, both using auto weapons. C'mon get real. I mean, I know we in the future but is this how they fight in the future? No use of cover? Them grenades come out too quick. |
Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
884
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 02:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nyx Linx wrote:Automatic weapons are for noobs and should have a damage decrease. I'm currently skilling the AR for the burst and TAC version. They are way more expensive than the regular AR and the regular AR is more effective!!!
The way gunplay works in this game is weird. You rely on your armor so you just move side to side and hope to kill the guy before he kills you, both using auto weapons. C'mon get real. I mean, I know we in the future but is this how they fight in the future? No use of cover? Them grenades come out too quick.
I use a Laser Rifle. As soon as I start burning ants, they flee for the cracks in the sidewalk.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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HYENAKILLER X
TEAM SHINOBI
324
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Posted - 2013.11.04 02:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:I'm a big fan of burst rifles as, in general, they're more accurate than automatic weapons. Most have a scope of some sort and are more effective at longer ranges.
I'm hoping that the combat rifle is awesome like this, but I'm slightly confused looking at the stats for the burst AR in the game right now.
Why does the adv version only do 32 damage per shot when the regular AR does 36? Shouldn't it be the other way around, where each bullet of the burst rifle means more? Sure, the RoF is slightly higher (about 80 more rpm), but in reality the regular AR can fire off all 60 rounds in much less time than the burst.
I don't know how many games you have played, but every other burst rifle I've used does a TON of damage per hit, with the downside of smaller clips, more reloading, having to stay at longer ranges, and a poor hipfire.
What gives? Why is the normal AR more accurate and more deadly than the burst at range? Can someone explain to me how this is supposed to be proper balancing? Not even reading tho op.
Proto burst at primary range with damage mods is insane. If you have the skills for that weapon you are an absolute beast and burden.
Know your s*** noob.
You are welcome for my leadership
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
523
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 02:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Th3rdSun wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:Dexter307 wrote:Th3rdSun wrote:First and foremost,they really screwed the Burst ARs and Burst Scrambler Pistols over.
Not sure,but didn't they reduce the rounds by two shot on the AR? I know for a fact that the Burst Pistol was a tree-shot,and and now it's only two.Doesn't seem like much of a difference,but if you played with it before,you really can tell how gimmped it is now. Ummmm, what? The burst pistol is still a three burst. The burst ar used to be a 7 burst, now its a 3 The CAR-9 is a two-shot gun now,and I'll bet you 150 ISK on that.As a matter of fact,I'm pretty sure that they even made it harder to get to,being that you have to have your Scrambler Pistol Operation at level IV now,when it use to be level III (EDIT: According to an IGN Dust 514 Wiki page,it's was lvl II).Also,they completely removed the standard burst pistol as well,making it even more of a waste to get it,if you really liked it in Chromosome,like I did. I know people that were using the Allotek burst AR,and they claimed that it was a seven shot,but now it's a five shot.I can't personally attest to that,being that I think I only once used an Allotek burst AR. Nope, its the only secondary i use so i know. It has 17 rounds withs scrambler pistol operation lvl 5 so its 3-3-3-3-3-2. The last burst in the mag is 2 burst because of the odd mag size. Burst ar is a 3 shot now currently Put your money where your mouth is then,because I bet that I use them more than you do,especially since I have proficiency to lvl 4. EDIT: Ok I'm playing right now,and they must have patched it back to three shots,because I know that it was two shots about two weeks ago. Its ALWAYS been a three burst, ive had proficiency 5 for months now |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9847
|
Posted - 2013.11.04 02:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Single shots should do more damage than burst, which should do more damage than automatic.
It's an incredibly basic FPS formula.
Then again, we're dealing with people who thought a sidearm with huge damage and a massive splash radius was a "difficult to use skill shot weapon".
You aren't going to get predictable results here. These people do not play first person shooters like we do, and the few who do are not in a design position.
Wrong, certain mechanics were missing for that gun so they used a placeholder attribute.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier Specialist
Curren/t Theme \\= Advanced Heavy Machine Gun =// Unlocked.
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bonkersfox
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
245
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Posted - 2013.11.04 11:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
the whole point of a burst is to keep your aim on target, that delay is their to give you a chance to adjust your aim, it increases your chance of effectively hitting a target, ie less rounds fired more hits on target,
my opinion is that the rounds should do the same damage, its just a different rof.
on that subject how come their isn't a selector switch to change rof, future war is very old fashioned |
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