DUST Search - Upcoming 1.7 changes to AV questions

Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:

calvin b wrote:

I am not against drop ships, but at the same time being bombarded by a drop ship and not being able to return fire can and will be frustrating.

Take this thought and apply it to now. This is exactly how dropship pilots feel about your swarms. You can hit us from 400 meters and we cannot return fire. The same applies in 1.7 - You can hit us from 175 meters but we cant hit you. (as was said 120 meters is the realistic long range shot, and these are rare and very hard to do.)

If you want to see a 129 meter fight with a swarm watch this video at 1:04. Pause it there, at 1:04. That is what you look like from 129 meters. invisible almost always, a single pixel at best. We cant tell the difference between you and a nova knifer; while you fire that first volley at us.

Can you understand our frustration? I encourage you to watch that full video and this one too plus this one. Try to see this from our perspective. We don't want to be gods, we only want to be involved fairly.

Note : The end of match stats showed my longest kill that match at 129 meters. The was my only kill at such obvious range. This is how i know the range of the kill.

Also big respect to the op for saying "shortened range" not "nerf". This shows a true attempt at understanding and knowledge seeking, rather than knee jerk forum ranting. Well done.

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calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 838	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:37:00 - [1] - Quote Ok this not a QQ or hate thread this is a legitimate question for the community. With the shortened range on the Swarm launcher, will this cause the Swarm Launcher to not be able to challenge the dropship? Its one thing to gang up on a tank or LAV for they are on the ground, but the dropship will be able fly higher than the swarm can reach. They can now out run swarms and rise high enough that the swarms fail to lock on, so with the shortened range it will be even harder. Now we wait to see what CCP will do to the FG to know how this will effect AV. I am not against drop ships, but at the same time being bombarded by a drop ship and not being able to return fire can and will be frustrating. So community what is your thoughts on this? I also believe they need to change the reward drop ship pilots get when they transport troops. I believe it would be more beneficial if they received 15WP for each troop they transport. If an uplink gets 25WP, why cant CCP give pilots a break. Do not eat the yellow snow
Broonfondle Majikthies Bannana Boat Corp 379	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:41:00 - [2] - Quote Standard effective range is about 75m from an assault DS I think my longest kill was from 120m, and at that range I couldn't see the target. Swarms should be fine. They'll be able to deny an objective rather than striking us down with no way of knowing where they came from and so no way to counter or even evade the 2nd volly "We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
Awry Barux Shining Flame Amarr Empire 202	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:45:00 - [3] - Quote As I understand it, the shortened range is purely for locking. Missile range will likely stay the same.
calvin b Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 838	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:46:00 - [4] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Standard effective range is about 75m from an assault DS I think my longest kill was from 120m, and at that range I couldn't see the target. Swarms should be fine. They'll be able to deny an objective rather than striking us down with no way of knowing where they came from and so no way to counter or even evade the 2nd volly Gotcha so its to make it a more balanced game play. Do not eat the yellow snow
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9838	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:51:00 - [5] - Quote I will confirm its the lock range is the only range changing the missile range itself is still well beyond the lock range. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier Specialist Curren/t Theme \\= Advanced Heavy Machine Gun =// Unlocked.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1311	Posted - 2013.11.02 21:56:00 - [6] - Quote calvin b wrote: Ok this not a QQ or hate thread this is a legitimate question for the community. With the shortened range on the Swarm launcher, will this cause the Swarm Launcher to not be able to challenge the dropship?[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw 48 seconds in explains why I'm fine with the new lock-on range. Closed Beta Vet Reading the forums detracts from overall enjoyment of the game
pegasis prime BIG BAD W0LVES 1236	Posted - 2013.11.02 22:32:00 - [7] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: calvin b wrote: Ok this not a QQ or hate thread this is a legitimate question for the community. With the shortened range on the Swarm launcher, will this cause the Swarm Launcher to not be able to challenge the dropship?[ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3au9H-NcgSw 48 seconds in explains why I'm fine with the new lock-on range. spot on and good vid explaining the balance shift to the nobrainers. Its gone from suck .....to blow level 1 forum warrior
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 611	Posted - 2013.11.02 23:15:00 - [8] - Quote calvin b wrote: I am not against drop ships, but at the same time being bombarded by a drop ship and not being able to return fire can and will be frustrating. Take this thought and apply it to now. This is exactly how dropship pilots feel about your swarms. You can hit us from 400 meters and we cannot return fire. The same applies in 1.7 - You can hit us from 175 meters but we cant hit you. (as was said 120 meters is the realistic long range shot, and these are rare and very hard to do.) If you want to see a 129 meter fight with a swarm watch this video at 1:04. Pause it there, at 1:04. That is what you look like from 129 meters. invisible usually a single pixel at best. Can you understand our frustration? Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 276	Posted - 2013.11.03 02:37:00 - [9] - Quote I believe the range has been reduced a little too much as height needs to be taken into account where dropships are concerned. At a decent drop height the horizontal range of the swarm launcher will be reduced which makes the range in the video misleading(10 to 50m will generally be lost assuming dropships are between 60 and 120m off the ground). We will have to wait and see how everything turns out but I believe an additional 25 to 50m should be added to the range, or perhaps the secondary could allow you to fire laser guided swarms or allow for longer range coupled with longer lock time.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 550	Posted - 2013.11.03 02:40:00 - [10] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Standard effective range is about 75m from an assault DS I think my longest kill was from 120m, and at that range I couldn't see the target. Swarms should be fine. They'll be able to deny an objective rather than striking us down with no way of knowing where they came from and so no way to counter or even evade the 2nd volly Most dropship pilots I see always end up escaping my swarms I may seem biased to some... But in the end all I want is perfect balance between everything.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4893	Posted - 2013.11.03 02:43:00 - [11] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: calvin b wrote: I am not against drop ships, but at the same time being bombarded by a drop ship and not being able to return fire can and will be frustrating. Take this thought and apply it to now. This is exactly how dropship pilots feel about your swarms. You can hit us from 400 meters and we cannot return fire. The same applies in 1.7 - You can hit us from 175 meters but we cant hit you. (as was said 120 meters is the realistic long range shot, and these are rare and very hard to do.) If you want to see a 129 meter fight with a swarm watch this video at 1:04. Pause it there, at 1:04. That is what you look like from 129 meters. invisible almost always, a single pixel at best. We cant tell the difference between you and a nova knifer; while you fire that first volley at us. Can you understand our frustration? I encourage you to watch that full video and this one too plus this one. Try to see this from our perspective. We don't want to be gods, we only want to be involved fairly. Note : The end of match stats showed my longest kill that match at 129 meters. The was my only kill at such obvious range. This is how i know the range of the kill. Also big respect to the op for saying "shortened range" not "nerf". This shows a true attempt at understanding and knowledge seeking, rather than knee jerk forum ranting. Well done. Thank you for explaining it very well. I never realized that Dropship pilots had this issue with the swarms. And considering the fact that the dropship camera angle is awkward for your assault DS pilots, I can agree with the new swarm launcher range. As an added note, I have some skills invested in swarm launchers but only for the sake of feeling useful to some degree. I am a knifer after all. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 4893	Posted - 2013.11.03 02:46:00 - [12] - Quote Atiim wrote: Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Standard effective range is about 75m from an assault DS I think my longest kill was from 120m, and at that range I couldn't see the target. Swarms should be fine. They'll be able to deny an objective rather than striking us down with no way of knowing where they came from and so no way to counter or even evade the 2nd volly Most dropship pilots I see always end up escaping my swarms That doesn't necessarily invalidate their concerns. Swarm launcher users still stay invisible to DS pilots due to the rendering range and the effective range is still limited. This only means that you are just creating an area-denial situation against the DS pilots. CCP, please fix the Nova Knives. Thank you.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 47	Posted - 2013.11.03 03:01:00 - [13] - Quote calvin b wrote: I am not against drop ships, but at the same time being bombarded by a drop ship and not being able to return fire can and will be frustrating. So community what is your thoughts on this? Most stuff has been covered, but I also wanted to point out something related to this comment: the difference between the Swarm/Missile turret range is 25 metres. Trying to maintain an altitude of 176-200m, while shooting, while remaining conscious of nearby terrain, while keeping in mind battlefield situations and other enemies (ie, Forge Guns, Installations) is not an easy task. I have had several people within my corp say that DS pilots will just hover over and bombard with impunity: this is just simply not the case. It's not easy to hit a moving footslogger when you're at about 100m, let alone twice that and when you're trying to maintain a specific altitude, it's not a task that will bear much - if any - fruit. The biggest advantage this gives to Dropships is that they will be able to hover above an area and, unless dedicated heavy AV (ie, Forge Guns, Rail Tanks/Installations, new heavy weapons) is brought out, provide a safe spawn point. Also calvin b, I most definitely applaud you for your reasoned approach. Two thumbs up!


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