Don't get me wrong, I don't object to the nerf, the splash damage on the forge was too massive to begin with, but the fix in question will not prevent forgers from standing on roofs and raining down death with impunity, it will only make it harder for them.

The real problem with forge guns is that once a forge gunner gets on a roof it is impossible to get them down. They tear dropships to pieces, snipers can't kill a heavy in one shot, and other weapons can't range them. Therefore there are a number of solutions.

1. Buff Snipers: probably the worst solution, this would give a fix for killing forgers but will also inevitably result in more redline sniping.

2. Nerf Forge Range: This would work, but probably be very hard to get right, since roofs have a variety of heights, and moreover would make Forgeguns unable to kill dropships, making them invulnerable.

3. Put barriers around roofs: Again, effective but it will be hard to determine which roofs are OP roofs and in need of nerfing as opposed to those that are fine. Also, this risks defeating the purpose of roofs altogether and eliminating verticality from maps.

4. Give Dropships some teeth: The best solution in my opinion is to buff dropships, but not just in a way that they get more health, but increase turret damage and allow passengers to fire out of them as well. Yes, this will give forge gunners even more options to shoot out of dropships, but unlike forgers on roofs, who are very small targets, dropships are larger targets that are very vulnerable to forges and swarms. Moreover, this encourages verticality as a new gameplay element rather than locking it out forever.

4. Give Dropships some teeth: The best solution in my opinion is to buff dropships, but not just in a way that they get more health, but increase turret damage and allow passengers to fire out of them as well. Yes, this will give forge gunners even more options to shoot out of dropships, but unlike forgers on roofs, who are very small targets, dropships are larger targets that are very vulnerable to forges and swarms. Moreover, this encourages verticality as a new gameplay element rather than locking it out forever.

What about the assault FG since it seems to be so common?

get friends on the eve side. don't act like ccp hasn't already given you the solution to your problem.

Don't get me wrong, I don't object to the nerf, the splash damage on the forge was too massive to begin with, but the fix in question will not prevent forgers from standing on roofs and raining down death with impunity, it will only make it harder for them.

The real problem with forge guns is that once a forge gunner gets on a roof it is impossible to get them down. They tear dropships to pieces, snipers can't kill a heavy in one shot, and other weapons can't range them. Therefore there are a number of solutions.

1. Buff Snipers: probably the worst solution, this would give a fix for killing forgers but will also inevitably result in more redline sniping.

2. Nerf Forge Range: This would work, but probably be very hard to get right, since roofs have a variety of heights, and moreover would make Forgeguns unable to kill dropships, making them invulnerable.

3. Put barriers around roofs: Again, effective but it will be hard to determine which roofs are OP roofs and in need of nerfing as opposed to those that are fine. Also, this risks defeating the purpose of roofs altogether and eliminating verticality from maps.

4. Give Dropships some teeth: The best solution in my opinion is to buff dropships, but not just in a way that they get more health, but increase turret damage and allow passengers to fire out of them as well. Yes, this will give forge gunners even more options to shoot out of dropships, but unlike forgers on roofs, who are very small targets, dropships are larger targets that are very vulnerable to forges and swarms. Moreover, this encourages verticality as a new gameplay element rather than locking it out forever.

Why can't we simply put in the old dispersion for the forge gun so it isn't as precise as a sniper rifle?
Then they're entirely capable of fulfilling their role as AV, while still having some anti-infantry capability, but they can no longer snipe.

"The real problem with forge guns is that once a forge gunner gets on a roof it is impossible to get them down."

What? Am I missing a memo or is this something that only ever happens in PC or FW? This kind of **** doesn't happen in pubs. Why? Because there's a lot more people competent enough to shoot the *******.

I can't speak for the other ground FGers, but my strength is at being on the low ground, so those little ***** on the towers get obliterated the moment I notice them. Moreover, there's plenty of snipers around these days.

Added note: I am for the buffing of dropships. They're getting the ultimate kick in the teeth soon... They've really been the ones suffering. Them and the scouts. Sigh.

So your telling me that having a forge gunner on the roof means that you win in PC?

That was like 4 months ago... now all it takes is a sniper somewhere on the battlefield to suppress the forgegunner... if he cant make it to the edge of the building or rings he cant give suppressive fire...

I don't know why people complain about everything that makes you win. Tactics are tactics, and that's it.

I always found it odd that we have these huge buildings with no entrances and no stairwell to the roof. Even If the entire building itself is a piece of machinery, then how do the techs fix it when it breaks.

3. Put barriers around roofs: Again, effective but it will be hard to determine which roofs are OP roofs and in need of nerfing as opposed to those that are fine. Also, this risks defeating the purpose of roofs altogether and eliminating verticality from maps.

I was expecting this post to be about adjusting the damage values for the Assault Forge Gun to bring it to lower levels than the hold-charge variants so that it'd still have better DPS over time but wouldn't be objectively better at AV after the very first shot.

I was disappointed.

Or just buff tanks and dropships. If you nerf the forge that would affect LAV's too. Since all the forge's can oneshot infantry it's probably best to leave damage alone.

So because forge guns can one shot infantry already ... the damage shouldn't be adjusted with respect to AV? I don't understand the connection. I fail to see what LAVs have to with this scenario as the Forge is clearly not suited to deal with them in the first place. Inevitably I think an across the board damage nerf to the forge gun is on the horizon to put it in line with the new eHP values for Tanks but I'd just like to see the clear disparity between the Assault and Normal variants of the weapon addressed.

Am I the only one that has a problem with an Assault (Higher Rate of Fire) variant also doing fairly significantly more damage than the normal variant from the very first shot? Would it make sense to give the Assault Mass Driver higher damage per shot as well?

I was merely pointing out that it is always prudent to make changes that affect the smallest possible number of things in the game. So instead of nerfing a weapon making it less effective against everything it would make more sense to buff certain things instead.

EDIT: And I brought up the infantry because no matter that's going to be a one shot so why reduce damage?

Because Infantry has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion. You said it yourself, they're 1 shotting Infantry regardless so switching the damage values (as an example) for the Assault and Normal variants only affects the Forge Gun's effectiveness against other vehicles. If it doesn't affect you, as an infantry guy, that's fine because my point was never about addressing the interaction between the Forge and Infantry to begin with. I hope that makes sense.

if we had used your logic for adjusting the flaylock then the response would have been to buff literally every other weapon in the game rather than address the single outlier in the equation.