DUST Search - Seasoned Blueberries

A'Real Fury wrote:

I think one of the problems within Dust is that "Team" is too large a group for a single player to work with or care about. Think about it this way:

A. Teams can not communicate quickly as a whole I.e. you have either squad comms or non-squad comms but neither group can communicate with the other without calling up menus.

B. Those without mics or can not communicate verbally e.g. They are mute (speach impediment) or do not speak the same language, are left on the outside.

C. Most group WP rewards are tied to squads with no team rewards.

D. Induction into the game is based on some simple mechanics and nothing on promoting corps or group play.

E. most people's experience of leaving the Academy will be facing a single squad that crushes them. Match making appears to prefer corp squads on the same team rather than opposing sides.

However, for me the most important element about team play is the ability for the team to be able to communicate quickly and simply. If squads can not communicate with the lone wolfs or the other squads fast then you do not have a team.

Outside of PC the single largest group you can field is a squad and with the player base as it is you find most of the elite players who enjoy squading will group together. At best most blues see is a single red squad destroying their team and that red squad usually has a bunch of randoms chasing after them to pick up the leavings.

If you want team play I believe you need a means for people to learn how against NPC enemies which do not consume Isk or affect stats. You need a greater focus, in game and not on forums, on promoting and integrating players into corps, alliances and other player groups.

Dust does not promote team play as it is focused on loss of Isk and the rewards are focused on your place on the leader board at the end of the battle and not on how well you played within the team.

FW may in time promote team play with the changes CCP has proposed, if players can see a personal benefit to playing as a team, but I doubt you will see more than squads organisation in pub matches.

There is more that could be considered but it is a hassle typing on an iPad.

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Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1691	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:06:00 - [1] - Quote These blueberries need to stay in the Academy for a better part of a month as a boot camp. It's seriously affecting the gameplay here and I can't stress it enough. I know, I'm essentially saying buff the blueberry. But I'm not sure what else to do about matches that go completely south in Skirmish and Domination. Go into Skirmish battle. All objectives glare red. Blueberries hiding by MCC. No one is fighting because everyone on my team decided to quit. Stupid me for running out there with a mid priced dropsuit ready to do some damage. The funny part is? We have 140 clones and they have 150. Uh what? Let me see the player list...okay, that's not the problem. What is? Domination mode doesn't do any better. I'm lucky to get evenly balanced matches. Intelligence lacks greatly. Battle tactics and field awareness is nil. It turns into a glorfied uplink battle as you see nothing but pulsating blue circles everywhere. Are they placed strategically? Half the time, no. It's for the WPs. WP whoring. It can be a game's downfall, I tell ya. Speaking of WPs, only Logistics suits should be able to carry a nanite injector. I repeat, only a Logibro should have a nanite injector. These assault players revivals are more than stupid. They just revive. For how much? A whooping headshot kill. Yea, 60 WPs for a team revival. Are you kidding me? No wonder assault players running around with a revive handy to maximize their SP. Do you see them carry rep tool? I think that needs to be lowered significantly. If the triage gives you 25 per certain "block" of armor healed, then revives should be 35 or 40. Not a headshot kill total. So it seems there are three groups from my experience. You got the last of the elites, who do nothing but threaten to leave and play PC all day for any famous corporation-cause that's what they do. Then you have these mid level corporations trying to make a name for themselves with that aspiration to be big in New Eden. Little do they know about the pool they have to pull from. And then you got lone wolfs, who are compromised of 70 percent numbskulls and 30 percent who are actually trying to make something happen on the battlefield. Unfortunately they get overlooked because the copious amounts of moronic players. I'm just being honest here. Not being mean at all. I don't know what it would take to inject a better sense of teamwork and coordination into the mass community for better overall gameplay. Some games you play, you just get its that. With Dust, players seem hell bent on playing it their way only instead of that which benefits the team as a whole. Go into FW and look at my poor Caldari brethren. We are sadly highly unorganized and if we are in the warbarge, the team comm will show you no one is in a squad. If you make a squad and invite? No one steps up. And we get stomped everytime. We got to do something to change this...
Smooth Assassin Stardust incorporation 265	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:07:00 - [2] - Quote I can imagine the "RAGE QUIT"
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1717	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:08:00 - [3] - Quote I don't think these are noobs. I think they are just people that have come to the realization they don't need to actually play the game to get paid.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1691	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:08:00 - [4] - Quote lol! It can be annoying at times, I cannot lie. I just see too many players play this game with a COD state of mind instead of a Dust 514 state of mind.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 325	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:09:00 - [5] - Quote i think the WP limit for academy should be more in the region of 15,000, not 1500. Maybe it was a typo?
Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1719	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:10:00 - [6] - Quote But a positive change would be increasing passive SP for players in corps. As well as rewarding winning matches and generating WP.
Joel II X AHPA 71	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:11:00 - [7] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: i think the WP limit for academy should be more in the region of 15,000, not 1500. Maybe it was a typo? Lol 15k. That's a bit too much. I'd say around 5-7k.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1692	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:16:00 - [8] - Quote This game greatly benefits your experience when you play as a team. It's designed for those nail biting fights and close calls. For those great comebacks and last minute losses. It's so much more rewarding to the experience when players move as a unit instead of being Arnold or Sly on the battlefield. That doesn't work. Yet they continually do it. The sprint button doesn't get pushed in enough. I guess that's just nature of things. People move separately more so than a unit as a whole in our society. But its bad here. Nothing yanks me outta the experience than playing a game where I have 15 guys on my team and it feels like its me against the other team. Talking on comms means nothing now. Everybody just goes.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 928	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:17:00 - [9] - Quote FW Amarr side im in a standard logi(Amarr) suit proto assault pistol the other team wasn't even that good with the acceptation of the proto bears on the other side anyway the blue berries were absolute sh-it and evicer saw a heavy trying to KN with that being said we lost badly with me being second on the leader boards with 20-ish kills and 10 deaths.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1692	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:22:00 - [10] - Quote Joel II X wrote: MassiveNine wrote: i think the WP limit for academy should be more in the region of 15,000, not 1500. Maybe it was a typo? Lol 15k. That's a bit too much. I'd say around 5-7k. I think 15K is great. I mean, really, are blueberries actually getting the concept down here? I mean, look at the qq about new players who leave academy and get stomped. After a while, those blueberries just might not care about teamwork because hey, that's human nature at times. You lose and you just turn into this big kid with your arms folded. Something needs to change because if the majority of blueberries continue playing like this, no matter what, it can push players away. It's a two way street relationship. Better blueberries means better games. It will lessen the qq'ing about other stuff when you got good battles. Hate to bring this up but just look at MAG. While I never played it, some folks said it had some hitches there. Yet, the overall mindset of teamwork, coordination and strategy helped the players over look that simply because the battles were good. There was an understanding there. Dust 514 has that with some few players. The majority doesn't understand it though and it affects the gameplay.

Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1692	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:24:00 - [11] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: FW Amarr side im in a standard logi(Amarr) suit proto assault pistol the other team wasn't even that good with the acceptation of the proto bears on the other side anyway the blue berries were absolute sh-it and evicer saw a heavy trying to KN with that being said we lost badly with me being second on the leader boards with 20-ish kills and 10 deaths. And that's another thing. When you have bad blueberries, your death increases for the enemy is now bold enough to run around in hunting parties. Momentum and confidence is now on their side. So you just get mowed over. If blueberries play how they should, it would lessen deaths. That's an issue now, is it not? Folks talk about dying fast. Why? Cause damn blueberries are being target stills for the reds.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1694	Posted - 2013.10.26 20:49:00 - [12] - Quote bumping
soulreaper73 PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 462	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:02:00 - [13] - Quote MassiveNine wrote: i think the WP limit for academy should be more in the region of 15,000, not 1500. Maybe it was a typo? agreed. why you no visit bunnyland lately massive? we need to troll orin.
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1177	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:25:00 - [14] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Speaking of WPs, only Logistics suits should be able to carry a nanite injector. I repeat, only a Logibro should have a nanite injector. I agree with the whole post but this. There are a few people I play with that use needles on assault and basic frame suits. It's saved me so much ISK over the time as well. I will say, that the starter medic class does need to be removed.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 410	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:29:00 - [15] - Quote I think one of the problems within Dust is that "Team" is too large a group for a single player to work with or care about. Think about it this way: A. Teams can not communicate quickly as a whole I.e. you have either squad comms or non-squad comms but neither group can communicate with the other without calling up menus. B. Those without mics or can not communicate verbally e.g. They are mute (speach impediment) or do not speak the same language, are left on the outside. C. Most group WP rewards are tied to squads with no team rewards. D. Induction into the game is based on some simple mechanics and nothing on promoting corps or group play. E. most people's experience of leaving the Academy will be facing a single squad that crushes them. Match making appears to prefer corp squads on the same team rather than opposing sides. However, for me the most important element about team play is the ability for the team to be able to communicate quickly and simply. If squads can not communicate with the lone wolfs or the other squads fast then you do not have a team. Outside of PC the single largest group you can field is a squad and with the player base as it is you find most of the elite players who enjoy squading will group together. At best most blues see is a single red squad destroying their team and that red squad usually has a bunch of randoms chasing after them to pick up the leavings. If you want team play I believe you need a means for people to learn how against NPC enemies which do not consume Isk or affect stats. You need a greater focus, in game and not on forums, on promoting and integrating players into corps, alliances and other player groups. Dust does not promote team play as it is focused on loss of Isk and the rewards are focused on your place on the leader board at the end of the battle and not on how well you played within the team. FW may in time promote team play with the changes CCP has proposed, if players can see a personal benefit to playing as a team, but I doubt you will see more than squads organisation in pub matches. There is more that could be considered but it is a hassle typing on an iPad.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 329	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:35:00 - [16] - Quote soulreaper73 wrote: MassiveNine wrote: i think the WP limit for academy should be more in the region of 15,000, not 1500. Maybe it was a typo? agreed. why you no visit bunnyland lately massive? we need to troll orin. aww I will buddy. Just between work/woman I has no time.
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 329	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:39:00 - [17] - Quote Joel II X wrote: MassiveNine wrote: i think the WP limit for academy should be more in the region of 15,000, not 1500. Maybe it was a typo? Lol 15k. That's a bit too much. I'd say around 5-7k. How is that a bit much? I probably have at least 200k now, and I'm sure there are others with more. 15k gives people the wiggle room to figure out what's going to work for them before they actually hit the field. 1500 is like Giving an armed forces recruit a half day of training then putting him on the front line. This is a game built for the long run so why not extend it out further? Those who excel above others will be promoted out of the academy faster than those who dont so people who are still new wont have to be afraid. Even if a newberry averaged 1500wp a game it would still take 15 games to get out. Those who need more time will get it, it's a win/win for everyone.
General John Ripper MoIden Heath PoIice Department EoN. 3910	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:40:00 - [18] - Quote please don't
MassiveNine 0uter.Heaven 329	Posted - 2013.10.26 21:40:00 - [19] - Quote General John Ripper wrote: please don't Lame
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1694	Posted - 2013.10.26 23:47:00 - [20] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: I think one of the problems within Dust is that "Team" is too large a group for a single player to work with or care about. Think about it this way: A. Teams can not communicate quickly as a whole I.e. you have either squad comms or non-squad comms but neither group can communicate with the other without calling up menus. B. Those without mics or can not communicate verbally e.g. They are mute (speach impediment) or do not speak the same language, are left on the outside. C. Most group WP rewards are tied to squads with no team rewards. D. Induction into the game is based on some simple mechanics and nothing on promoting corps or group play. E. most people's experience of leaving the Academy will be facing a single squad that crushes them. Match making appears to prefer corp squads on the same team rather than opposing sides. However, for me the most important element about team play is the ability for the team to be able to communicate quickly and simply. If squads can not communicate with the lone wolfs or the other squads fast then you do not have a team. Outside of PC the single largest group you can field is a squad and with the player base as it is you find most of the elite players who enjoy squading will group together. At best most blues see is a single red squad destroying their team and that red squad usually has a bunch of randoms chasing after them to pick up the leavings. If you want team play I believe you need a means for people to learn how against NPC enemies which do not consume Isk or affect stats. You need a greater focus, in game and not on forums, on promoting and integrating players into corps, alliances and other player groups. Dust does not promote team play as it is focused on loss of Isk and the rewards are focused on your place on the leader board at the end of the battle and not on how well you played within the team. FW may in time promote team play with the changes CCP has proposed, if players can see a personal benefit to playing as a team, but I doubt you will see more than squads organisation in pub matches. There is more that could be considered but it is a hassle typing on an iPad. Great post. Well thought out. And thanks to all who shared their opinions on the manner. Each opinion was helpful in understanding a broader scope and its great to get these ideas out there for some discussion. Thanks mercs o7

Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1570	Posted - 2013.10.26 23:53:00 - [21] - Quote Player-run tutorials. We have DUST University and BSOTT, but the game really, REALLY doesn't provide mechanics which allow them to utilise the skills of the teachers to their maximum potential. I hear district free-roaming will be possible soon. THANK YOU, CCP. The possibilities are endless here. Classes run on districts with no opposition can make up for the non-existent tutorials. In this manner CCP won't even have to create a tutorial, if every corporation who owns a district (another thing to fight in PC for) can teach their newbies on the district, or send them to an instructional corp. like the two mentioned above to come back loaded with knowledge in a month or so.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1694	Posted - 2013.10.27 00:07:00 - [22] - Quote Yea, DustUni seems to be quiet. I imagine that Dust Uni needs a more broadcasted approach to get mercs trained. Of course, not everybody needs Dust Uni, but the fact that not too many mercenaries visit the forums, it would be nice to have some in game advertisement for training corps. That would definitely give new players a chance at feeling comfortable after leaving academy and give the mercenary more of a positive feel for a substantial future career outlook as a mercenary in New Eden. Let's take it to the next level. Really would help that immersion level.
IMMORTAL WAR HERO BAD SANTA'S SCHOOL 4 SCOUNDRELS 34	Posted - 2013.10.27 00:09:00 - [23] - Quote UGGHH R YOU KIDDING ME WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS BLUEBERRIES USING LFS TO FIND SQUADS AND WORKS AS A SQUAD INSTEAD OF DOING IT SOLO ONLY WAY TO LEARN IS TO SQD WITH PEOPLE BETTER THAN YOU [url]THIS GUYS WORSE THAN YOUTHIS GUY IS WORSE THAN YOU
Kahn Zo R 0 N 1 N 32	Posted - 2013.10.27 00:10:00 - [24] - Quote A perspective. A new guy to this game, me. It can be intimidating to some berries. Some berries just want to "jump in" and shoot shyte up. Some berries get so pounded, they stay behind. I hear ya on all points. The game is not for everybody. Nor should everybody be playing it. Are there statistics in regards to how long a newberrie stays with the game? one out of fifteen maybe? It is a free game, go in, see what it is about, a decision is made. sure makes havoc for you vets. I have even experienced it myself, 3 weeks in. And I am just starting compared to some of ya.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1694	Posted - 2013.10.27 00:21:00 - [25] - Quote IMMORTAL WAR HERO wrote: UGGHH R YOU KIDDING ME WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IS BLUEBERRIES USING LFS TO FIND SQUADS AND WORKS AS A SQUAD INSTEAD OF DOING IT SOLO ONLY WAY TO LEARN IS TO SQD WITH PEOPLE BETTER THAN YOU [url]THIS GUYS WORSE THAN YOUTHIS GUY IS WORSE THAN YOU Though the saying might be tired and over used, it works great in this context. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Squad finder isn't the ultimate solution. The blueberry needs to understand the whys and how. See the positive and the negative of the tactic so that when he does employ it, its instinctual and done with precision. Squad finder doesn't provide that. It's merely a cushioning or a death delay mechanism that allows the blueberry to fumble about just a lil while longer. The blueberry needs to gain the wisdom of the vets to understand how to approach every situation. It's similar to the military. A recruit sent to Parris Island must have his/her mind "washed clean" of civilian lifestyle so that when they rebuild the recruit, he's a born again Marine. So in a sense, blueberries need to learn how to Dust. It's natural for us to walk into this game new with muscle memory trained reflexes and strategies that we used in other FPS titles. But honestly, you can't do that here. You'll die and die often. Kahn Zo wrote: A perspective. A new guy to this game, me. It can be intimidating to some berries. Some berries just want to "jump in" and shoot shyte up. Some berries get so pounded, they stay behind. I hear ya on all points. The game is not for everybody. Nor should everybody be playing it. Are there statistics in regards to how long a newberrie stays with the game? one out of fifteen maybe? It is a free game, go in, see what it is about, a decision is made. sure makes havoc for you vets. I have even experienced it myself, 3 weeks in. And I am just starting compared to some of ya. I want the blueberries to excel. Like I said, its a two way street. A better trained blueberry, a more knowledgeable blueberry, makes for better teamwork and competition. Which equals better game. Nothing beats those close call games or really tensed matches. Most matches are one sided. No coordination. Now how we get there, I'm not sure. Is it Dust Uni? Is it CCP introducing new recruits to Dust Uni? Is it even better tutorial (which I feel can only do so much so it's really not on the list)?


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