DUST Search - Solutions for Team Killed (TKd) Suicide Abusers

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

There shouldn't be friendly fire at all. If you want to get rid of the people who just run around in circles or just moving to spot after spot not killing anyone or anything else like , running into team mates that are in their vehicles with their own , then just set up a system where they don't get paid or get skill points as well as the computer keeping track of what they are doing ( since it has problems with matchmaking ) and if they have three matches ( it can be during one day or week ) then they can't play factional for a week. That's the best way to punish those who act like kids is to take away their toys. I play factional and enjoy it , basically it's all I play and friendly fire is an issue ... a real one thinking about how in any game mode except conquest ... people don't understand the concept of TEAM. There should be a way to TEACH that so that those who are playing this game for enjoyment and the strategic aspect of the game can actually enjoy it and not look in the distance and see some one just camping and providing NO help or support.

There's such a debate about friendly fire because it's a problem and a bad ideal. The best way to get rid of those who cause problems and don't contribute , is to make this game give them nothing to look forward to. Like that kicking those who don't engage out , people will find a way around it and make those who care , lives miserable just because of that. I don't even know or want to know why they waist their time with something that they give no effort to , give no care about ( clearly ) or contribute nothing to the betterment of the game or concept. But bad ideals are and will punish those who DO care and those who contribute.

I like the forums because people can state their points and come up with solutions to problems that are a part of this game. I just hope that they are considered.

I'm sure there will be those who tell me ," find something else to do " or something to the effect because I've noticed that a lot of these people have a problem with RESPECT and just don't know how to talk to people ( maybe their parents didn't teach that to them as a child. ) but you have a right to your opinion , just TRY to respect mine.

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Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 318	Posted - 2013.10.20 12:00:00 - [1] - Quote Solution #1 Currently ranking up FW will allow you to TK more often and the allies jumping at one individual player more than 10 times is difficult by accident. But as you you know this leaves open the abuse of people who want to get killed by you to sabotage you. This is why in conjunction with the first mechanic, being killed by teammates, your TKd should operate on the same mechanic, if you are a noob and walk in front of friendly fire and got team killed you get kicked when you do that too many times for being a dumbass, if you are an account spawning troll, you get kicked for getting killed by allies when trying to sabotage players, your allotted amount of deaths from team mates before kick goes up with standing. So if you are low in standing, you can't afford a lot of tk or tkd suicides before a kick, if you are higher rank you can tk or get tkd suicide more often before kick. and demoted. So now imagine you have two opposing logarithmic lines representing the new mechanic of TK and TTK allowance which severely limits the pool of abusers as higher ranked members would be protected from lower rank members. So under this system there are two ways abuse will still occur 1) the Abuser has to grind and behave in the majority of his matches to raise his TKd Suicide admittance be be higher than the TK kill admittance of the lower ranked honest player 2) Established players can essentially kick a new player from a match by killing him multiple times Solution #2 The bounty system could entirely be based off on this right here, instead of basing it off one one game base it off on trends of those who consistently achieve high TK and TKd records. Once the individual breaches the set limit, have Concord place a bounty on all conspiring actors aka place the bounty on the playstation id and all characters associated with it. So with it being based on multiple games, and a simple kick method for individual games (meaning no time based ban), the chances of one innocent person being rung up multiple times becomes slim to none compared to the abuser who will be red flagged based on his constant actions. Also the innocent person will most likely rage quit and grind isk while the abuser does his thing. As long as the forgiveness process is long and painful, you can expect this system to work. So under this system there are two ways abuses will still occur 1) In the short term, victims of TKd will be kicked out of a game (but not time banned) 2) Tkders who run most of their ganes honestly can get away with a TKd game every so often by keeping his record clean enough to not be red flagged by the system Thoughts?
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 777	Posted - 2013.10.20 13:07:00 - [2] - Quote Person team killed being kicked after a number of TK deaths at least this issue: Example: I am in a squad of six. We all have some standing. On the blue team is person we don't like, called "Bieber". We all down "Bieber" several times, yet within allowed limits (1-3 times each). "Bieber" gets TK'd 6x 1to3 times, which surely goes above any suggested autokick for too many TK deaths. So a person being griefed by several people is also getting punished (kicked) by the server as well. (Granted that the game wouldn't been too enjoyable for "Bieber") But then again this is all about giving players some ability to remove unwelcome people from match, true that this could be used for good. As well as evil.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 319	Posted - 2013.10.20 16:33:00 - [3] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Person team killed being kicked after a number of TK deaths at least this issue: Example: I am in a squad of six. We all have some standing. On the blue team is person we don't like, called "Bieber". We all down "Bieber" several times, yet within allowed limits (1-3 times each). "Bieber" gets TK'd 6x 1to3 times, which surely goes above any suggested autokick for too many TK deaths. So a person being griefed by several people is also getting punished (kicked) by the server as well. (Granted that the game wouldn't been too enjoyable for "Bieber") But then again this is all about giving players some ability to remove unwelcome people from match, true that this could be used for good. As well as evil. correct, this is referenced in my solutions #1 in my potential abuses 2. But the chances are still a lot slimmer than without the mechanism, because that is operating on a personal grudge more so than a factional grudge, and that is rarer phenomena. Also they don't want to get rid of the abuses entirely, just partially.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 22	Posted - 2013.10.20 18:03:00 - [4] - Quote There shouldn't be friendly fire at all. If you want to get rid of the people who just run around in circles or just moving to spot after spot not killing anyone or anything else like , running into team mates that are in their vehicles with their own , then just set up a system where they don't get paid or get skill points as well as the computer keeping track of what they are doing ( since it has problems with matchmaking ) and if they have three matches ( it can be during one day or week ) then they can't play factional for a week. That's the best way to punish those who act like kids is to take away their toys. I play factional and enjoy it , basically it's all I play and friendly fire is an issue ... a real one thinking about how in any game mode except conquest ... people don't understand the concept of TEAM. There should be a way to TEACH that so that those who are playing this game for enjoyment and the strategic aspect of the game can actually enjoy it and not look in the distance and see some one just camping and providing NO help or support. There's such a debate about friendly fire because it's a problem and a bad ideal. The best way to get rid of those who cause problems and don't contribute , is to make this game give them nothing to look forward to. Like that kicking those who don't engage out , people will find a way around it and make those who care , lives miserable just because of that. I don't even know or want to know why they waist their time with something that they give no effort to , give no care about ( clearly ) or contribute nothing to the betterment of the game or concept. But bad ideals are and will punish those who DO care and those who contribute. I like the forums because people can state their points and come up with solutions to problems that are a part of this game. I just hope that they are considered. I'm sure there will be those who tell me ," find something else to do " or something to the effect because I've noticed that a lot of these people have a problem with RESPECT and just don't know how to talk to people ( maybe their parents didn't teach that to them as a child. ) but you have a right to your opinion , just TRY to respect mine.
Oswald Rehnquist Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance 319	Posted - 2013.10.20 18:49:00 - [5] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: There shouldn't be friendly fire at all. If you want to get rid of the people who just run around in circles or just moving to spot after spot not killing anyone or anything else like , running into team mates that are in their vehicles with their own , then just set up a system where they don't get paid or get skill points as well as the computer keeping track of what they are doing ( since it has problems with matchmaking ) and if they have three matches ( it can be during one day or week ) then they can't play factional for a week. That's the best way to punish those who act like kids is to take away their toys. I play factional and enjoy it , basically it's all I play and friendly fire is an issue ... a real one thinking about how in any game mode except conquest ... people don't understand the concept of TEAM. There should be a way to TEACH that so that those who are playing this game for enjoyment and the strategic aspect of the game can actually enjoy it and not look in the distance and see some one just camping and providing NO help or support. There's such a debate about friendly fire because it's a problem and a bad ideal. The best way to get rid of those who cause problems and don't contribute , is to make this game give them nothing to look forward to. Like that kicking those who don't engage out , people will find a way around it and make those who care , lives miserable just because of that. I don't even know or want to know why they waist their time with something that they give no effort to , give no care about ( clearly ) or contribute nothing to the betterment of the game or concept. But bad ideals are and will punish those who DO care and those who contribute. I like the forums because people can state their points and come up with solutions to problems that are a part of this game. I just hope that they are considered. I'm sure there will be those who tell me ," find something else to do " or something to the effect because I've noticed that a lot of these people have a problem with RESPECT and just don't know how to talk to people ( maybe their parents didn't teach that to them as a child. ) but you have a right to your opinion , just TRY to respect mine. No one on this thread disrespected your opinion so I'm guessing your bringing stuff that happened on other threads, I personally like the friendly fire aspect due to its faults and challenges. Currently there is nothing that seperates skirmish and fw game play wise, and I think it scales relatively well with security rating considering that FW is considered low sec space while skirmish is considered high sec. What I was showing in this thread were ways to control it to show where the abuses can still occur, from which CCP said that they don't want all abuses gone completely so I think my suggestions are definitely in the right direction.
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 324	Posted - 2013.10.20 22:29:00 - [6] - Quote Myself i would welcome the idea of friendly fire. Maybe then newbs would not walk right in front of my forge gun and prevent me from blowing up a tank because they are somehow hoping to kill it with their AR.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 223	Posted - 2013.10.20 23:00:00 - [7] - Quote Pasted from another thread: Ways to minimize TK/AWOX 1) You can't join FW until you get a certain number of WP. Period. Hard to believe anyone is going to grind an alt for 2-3 months to tk over and over again. I mean, once someone is seen griefing relentlessly people will catch on (see below) this would probably be the most effective prevention. But, hey, if they really want to spend the next 6 months doing nothing but grinding a couple new characters just to awox, well crap, maybe they should be rewarded for that dedication, lol. 2) Forgiveness. A Kill screen option to forgive, and the first tk each match doesn't go against your standings no matter what; Everyone gets a mulligan. Squad kills are always forgiven - killing members of your own corp/squad is by far the easiest thing to police. Lock your squad if you don't want randoms in it. 3) A kick option, you can also put it on the kill screen. You can vote to forgive. If you don't, you can then vote to kick or not. So many votes to kick and you're out. That way you can't get kicked randomly, you actually have to have tk'd some people first. This way you can also still punish that idiot you know didn't do it on purpose but is careless by dropping their LP gain but not getting them kicked. Also, with this mechanic there's no need to put in a blanket X many Tk's and you get auto-booted, like with the occasional wayward orbital or one of those future full-auto missile tank salvos (sounds scary but glorious). I can see why people would be concerned about that happening to a teammate. 3a) A variant of this would be a vote to kick option in the warbarge. You see a known griefer, start a vote. So many votes and you're out (maybe it would be more than 6 so a single squad can't do it alone). Combine this with a minimum WP level to even enter the match as mentioned above, and bang, serial awoxers become an endangered species. Obviously this could be exploited such that (to use a previous example, lol) Amarrian stalwart General John Ripper could potentially be kicked out in the warbarge by Minmatar supporters (or maybe bacon supporters, or people who inexplicably don't like tacos - who knows what goes on in the mind of a griefer!) so they can weaken the team. Easy fix: if you have a certain level of standing with that faction, you can't be kicked. The Imperial Guard is obviously not going to expel one of their finest soldiers based on the word of some rabble. o7
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3390	Posted - 2013.10.20 23:03:00 - [8] - Quote Hell no we wont. The Imperial Guard are to be the finest FW soldiers in the cluster. We will ensure this is a truth. I like some of your suggestions John.... and not some much some others. Go to Dust Sscussion on Skype. Discussing this with Hans will be an enlightening experience I am sure.


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