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[FEEDBACK] Acclimating to the Dropship Camera Postition in Patch 1.5

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CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:11:00 - [1] - Quote (Quote from a previous 1.4 thread) Please see my second post afterward: --There are always arguements and constant requests on the DROPSHIP camera features, as well as criticism against the current camera postion introduced in 1.4. Rather than add or try to contend with moe requests/complaints, I'd like to suggest something else. A few of the Beta players have over the course of two years written very useful Dropship Flight School blogs for budding players. From the extensive familiarity with the controls and the discussions that developed in thos blogs, there were two underlying "understandings" among the vast majority of 'pilots': a)- That the dropship is EXCRUCIATINGLY difficult to get the hang of, but that its minority of graduates ended up having a cocky respect and proud satisfaction because its high controller skill IS ACHEIVABLE with hard practice. b)- That, putting aside any personal wishes over fittings/ modules/ weapons/ etc, the one indespensable requirement to even safely hover or land this vehicle during gameplay was GENEROUS SPACIAL VISIBILITY around the vehicle. With the above denominators in mind, instead of submitting a ton of requests, I think it would be better just to offer 4 democratic CRITERIA about camera visibility, that will hopefully give your team the confidence to adjust and improve future controls/ camera with much less worry about accidentally hampering the gameplay experience of this one temperamental vehicle: 1- The DEFAULT camera position (the most crucial position because it runs automatically when all your other fingers are being used to keep the DS completely controlled) must provide generous visibile open area between the outline of the dropship and the edges of the tv monitor. Think of an Audi parked in the center of a 2-1/2 car garage (which is roughly the way patch 1.3 placed the camera). Again, this view must be the automatic, default camera position. 2- The focal point (pivot-point or target-point) of the default camera must be the middle of the DS (halfway between the chin and the backside). This ensures that SOME open area stays visible all around the vehicle when pitching up, turning, dipping, landing etc.. No part of the vehicle's outline (the crucial thrusters and backside most particularly) should fall too near the edges of the tv during maneuvering. Currently 1.4 appears to place the focal point somewhere out in FRONT of the vehicle's chin, and has disoriented many players. 3- PASSENGERS in the vehicle (I don't mean pilot or gunners) MUST retain "LOOK-button" feature (the ability to pan your 'head' across the outside scenery and even around the cabin inside the dropship). (Currently this control has been removed in patch 1.4). If the riders lose their ability to pan over what's happening around them when aboard the DS, they will lose their willingness to use the dropship as an effective means of transport in the game. 4- In any manual-control camera view you may decide to add, the view MUST retain some sort of DOWNWARD-FRONT angle as its primary importance. Second only to the downward-front view, a DOWNWARD-AFT (or DOWNWARD-threat) can also be attempted, (and any luxury of "side", "top" or even cockpit should be considered lesser importance). In his attempt to support his team with the dropship, it is the "relationship to the ground" or "relationship to the ground-enemy" that is most important to the majority of the pilots. I'm hopefull you can treat these simply as root principles or guidelines that will be easy to entertain and use as you continue to make Dust 514 one of the most unique and daring FPS's console players have ever seen.
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 414	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:30:00 - [2] - Quote i didnt have much trouble figuring out the dropship when i successfully managed to get it into the air without getting shot down. but something needs to be done with the camera. i miss being able to land and fly effectively. the new camera positions always make it harder.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2013.10.17 18:34:00 - [3] - Quote It goes without saying that more fanaticism is expressed from Dust "pilots" than any other Dust vehicle operator, so when it comes to a common point of view, we're all over the place. So I cannot claim this review of your Patch 1.5 camera position changes is a majority- feedback, but it is a VERY POSITIVE feedback, and a thank you. In my previous post above, I submitted 4 general criteria that seemed vital to controlling this vehicle in the game. It may be just a happy coincidence, but your changes in Patch 1.5 directly pertained to 3 of them: Where patches 1.3 and 1.4 allowed the player to pan the vehicle camera partially downward, Patch 1.5 appears to extend the pan to a full 90 degrees down and nearly 90 degrees upward. The extension to 90 proves useful in properly positioning the vehicle over a place you intend to drop-on or make a surprise landing. Using the new extended pan becomes contagious, and it works well! Where patch 1.4's default camera view had a focal point somewhere forward of the vehicle's nose, Patch 1.5's focal point seems to be on the vehicle's "spine". This makes level flight in 1.5 no longer as scenic and aerial-looking as in previous patches (since the horizon ahead is now only visible in the top two-fifths of your tv monitor). But the trade-off seems to be that the remaining three-fifths of the tv monitor is now trained on the distant GROUND ahead of you, not the horizonGÇª and arguably 'the ground' is where our vision should be most focused when using the DS in gameplay. Because the default camera position was cropping off much of the vehicle from view, I made the analogy in the post above that the default camera view should give the same amount of open space around the DS as "an Audi in a 2-1/2 car garage",GÇªPatch 1.5 delivers a default view that is nearly a bullseye of the Audi-comfort. Also in 1.5 the camera is now synchronized (pinned, locked?) to the vehicle's "yaw" (left-to-right leaning), while the camera is still allowed to "lag behind" when the vehicle pitches its nose up or down. This change in combination with the new camera focal point is quite radical, and at first creates a lot of disturbing vertigo (which may explain the hate expressed by players less than 24 hours after 1.5's release). But it honestly took me more than a week of acclimating before I could detect how "friendlier" the 1.5 camera is. It is understandable that ASSAULT dropship drivers are being visually obstructed (the camera pointed on the vehicle's "spine" means they are somewhat forced to train their gun on targets located "somewhere" under the ship's chin)GÇª and I hope this can be later resolved. But I also hope the resolution doesn't remove any of the improvements I've commended here. Landing is where your new camera position shines the most for me. Synching the camera to the ship's yawing motion allows me to shoulder my way down quickly into narrow spaces more confidently, and even nail a landing dead center on a roadway if I need. This October 8th patch has made learning and navigation more comfortable again. I think 1.5 is a godsent advancement over 1.4's attempt, while still retaining the steep "get-the-hang-of" challenge that many have come to salute about controlling a dropship. I'd like to request your team retain this incarnation as the core to work from in future patches. Thanks for your radical improvements and gutsy efforts!
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2013.10.17 19:40:00 - [4] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: i didnt have much trouble figuring out the dropship when i successfully managed to get it into the air without getting shot down. but something needs to be done with the camera. i miss being able to land and fly effectively. the new camera positions always make it harder. Oh, I'm sorry Clone117--- I took so long getting my post prepped that you got sandwiched between my two posts before you got a chance to read where I was going with the thread. (I was actually trying to COMMEND the new camera). I hope you don't feel like you got sandbagged. Wasn't intentional. But your post is good and makes something clear: The brain is AMAZING and can merge and master if given fair tuning time. We can acclimate to any new camera position.... but just so long as it's not "new" again every 35 days! Yikes.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kinsho Swords Caldari State 13	Posted - 2013.10.17 22:52:00 - [5] - Quote I give major props to all pilots of this game. For me it's by far the HARDEST part of the game and I gave up a long time ago. Maybe I will try again some day but for now I will just look and ride beside you guys and girls. Not to go off track though I wish one driving a tank can see behind the tank like a LAV. Much respect to pilots everywhere !!!!!!
Beld Errmon Evocatius 1017	Posted - 2013.10.17 23:51:00 - [6] - Quote 2 large posts of dribble and the only meaning i can take from it is you think the new cameras are great and you don't appear to be an assault dropship pilot, IMO either camera was easy to use for flying the generic dropships, and the only ppl really affected by this camera change is the ADS pilots.
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 24	Posted - 2013.10.22 19:24:00 - [7] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: I give major props to all pilots of this game. For me it's by far the HARDEST part of the game and I gave up a long time ago. Maybe I will try again some day but for now I will just look and ride beside you guys and girls. Not to go off track though I wish one driving a tank can see behind the tank like a LAV. Much respect to pilots everywhere !!!!!! Shinobi! In a forum that tends to be so full of player antagonism, that is a SPLENDID and Rock-On COOL compliment. THANK YOU very MUCH. I think the fact that the dropship is somewhere between a hovercraft and a plane and helipcopter makes it difficult for the developers to decide WHAT kind of interface and controller physics something like this SHOULD have (which one is the right one?). And the dropship players in this and other forums are almost as grumpy with each other's POVs as they are of the game's dropship controls, so we spend so much time chewing at each other's legs that it's hard to get ANY straight and level feedback to the developers (pos or neg). I see every once in a while, a single gamer slips out of the room for a moment, just long enough give a detailed feedback without the personal advice or the "I would've fixed this perfectly by now if I were the dev instead of CCP" critisicm. It's a simple but detailed Feedback that the devs seem to ask for in their response-posts,... but seldom seem to get from us. So hopefully, here's another one. And Shinobi, I've gone crazy panning that top-turret whenever I could hitch a ride with you HAV drivers---so I know how that "hair on the back of your neck" nervousness must feel when you can't see back there. You fellas have earned this DS-er's respect too. BIG TIME thanks!
Skihids Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2308	Posted - 2013.10.22 21:17:00 - [8] - Quote A well implemented FPV should make both ADS and standard dropship pilots. Make the FoV wide, both vertical and horizontal and you have excellent situational awareness. Bonus points if you add USB rudder pedals for Yaw control to free up the right stick for complete view panning, both up and down and left and right.
Yeshua Saliot Pro Hic Immortalis 8	Posted - 2013.10.23 06:49:00 - [9] - Quote I think (and just stated in another post) that a simple solution to the problem with visual awareness while piloting an ADS is to add opacity controls like those for the HUD to the pilot's view of the DS. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=114865&find=unread @CELESTA AUNGM Thank you for contributing to this discussion in a civil and constructive manner. Your lack of vitriol is appreciated. @Beld Errmon I'm sorry you feel that CELESTA's post wasn't helpful, but yours hardly qualifies in that category. Disagreement is fine, but being insulting and rude about it is unnecessary.
Beld Errmon The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1036	Posted - 2013.10.23 09:01:00 - [10] - Quote Yeshua Saliot wrote: @Beld Errmon I'm sorry you feel that CELESTA's post wasn't helpful, but yours hardly qualifies in that category. Disagreement is fine, but being insulting and rude about it is unnecessary. Thanks mum, I took the time to read his dribble I have every right to point out the fact he basically said nothing but camera good, which I entirely disagree with.



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