No.

I use basic tanks all the time when I'm low on funds. But I also happen to be Proto AV.

And no. If we use standard swarms (which does the exact same damage as Millitia swarms) we would get dominated by basic hulls.

I think that the problem with most tankers is that they just don't know when they should get outta there and then wonder why Proto AV hurts.

Basically your saying, we should say FU to ppl who invested 2 million SP into being Proto AV and make them use Millitia swarms against tanks with 6-8k armor. No.

Don't cry because you suck at tanking.

Close. IAFG + Complex Damage Mods + Advanced Frame. You can blame LLAVs for all the high meta AV gear in the game right now.

Minimal Intellegence?

Do you know how hard iris to take down a squad of tanks?

Do you know how frustrating it is to shoot your swarms and have it go straight for a wall?

Basically your saying that you want to be able to kill loads of people without any challenge or AV resistance whatsoever?

Dude I say FU to ppl who come right in the open and expect to live long enough to get away.

Yeah are you incapable of wrapping this around your thick headed skull?

IT IS NOT FAIR

BASIC AV DOES THE SAME DAMAGE AS MIILITIA AV

Do you hear yourself? Proto suit vs Proto turret jump in front of an 80GJ Particle Ion Cannon and see who wins. Thg tank or dropsuit?

Basically you want us to use Millitia AV against a basic tank with proto turrets. A basic tank can easily get 6k Armor and nothing would take that down with Millitia AV

A dropsuit vs a tank?

800 armor vs 6000 armor.

Yeah not fair

Did you even read the OP?

He wants us to use Basic/Millitia AV against a 6-7k armored hull with proto turrets?

Fire and forget? Yeah unless your swarms crash into a wall or decide to glitch and go backwards (what usually happens)


Lol Tankers without situational awareness and good tactics need to HTFU.

Tell me one time where you were killed by proto AV and it wasn't your fault?

Don't worry tankers, you will get good someday.

Why do you jump out in CQC range of a blaster turret?

Hmm that 10 Mil SP can easily be put towards other things, and tanks can do more than one thing, while all AV can do is kill tanks (except FGs, which I don't use).

What was your argument again?

BAHAHAHAHAHA Blasters are CQC BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I have seen a Blaster Turret annihilate from +75m

Question, when your in a Tank vs Tank fight would it Mae you angry if you died because your shots would either dive staight towards a wall or glitch up so bad that they fly backwards or just run around in circle?

And yeah I use a proto AV against basic tanks? That's common sense. If you were in your proto suit and you saw somebody in a STD suit would you kill him, or go to a supply depot to kill him with your basic suit?

I love hearing stupid posts and requests from tankers

Have you ever used swarms?

I've already tested this for you. Here are the results:

Ishukone Assault Forge Gun + Basic Dropsuit = 2079 HP damage

VS

Basic Armor HAV (fully specced)

Result: 5-6 volleys to destroy a Basic Armor HAV with proto assault forge.


Is there something wrong with this picture? A proto weapon vs a "basic" hull of an HAV and yet it cannot be destroyed by one volley (4 rounds) of a proto Ishukone forge. Your balance suggestions leans to the favor of tanks. Not a balance. If it takes two or more protos to take down a basic, then proto HAV's will dominate.

I'm not trying to question anyone's reasoning ability here, but wouldn't it make more sense for AV users to still get Proto AV and just have to fit it on a basic suit? If the argument is that tanks only have Proto weapons and modules but not hulls, it would seem to reason that keeping the Proto weapons across the board and limiting the shell that they are equipped to would even the playing field more.

No see you are being reasonable and using logic
To really understand where tankers are coming from you need to shove a pineapple up your ass to experience the same amount of butt hurt they are

Inb4 Taka and Void start rambling about how this is a crutch and if you die you must play better when I have personally see these guys play and they both make a bonehead basic mistake, they over extend and go without support
Drive by runs work so much better guys and parking yourself next to a CRU or something and expecting not to get blown up, well really who needs to play better

Oh and as for the "Waaah we spent 10 million SP" did you guys ever stop and look at the skill screen and actually compare costs or did you go "Well this one weapon skill is at 3x so that means thats all you need"
I mean hell if thats what you did your main turret skill has the same SP cost but you wouldnt say only getting the turret is what matters on a tank fitting right, just like how only having the weapon is not part of a full AV fitting

Right now... 3 low level suits runing together with militia swarms is a fun fight against a well fit tank. Killing them is pretty rare unless they make a mistake, but can keep them close to death for plenty long enough to chase them off the map and make them recall.

This is current. And this is an example of a proto assault forge gun (fitted on a basic dropsuit) vs a "basic" armor tank. Two complex damage mods would deal 2238 HP damage to a "basic" HAV. What I'm trying to get at is why does it take a full proto forge such as this to take a full volley of 4 hits to drop a basic? And you want basic vs basic? Lol.

I sometimes run my Ishukone on a basic Dren heavy because it's a free suit and costs me only 59,000 isk to lose per fit. But more often I run the DAU assault forge cause its cheaper. 27,000 per fit. And in the world of AR's, running a fat expensive suit is very costly.

I saw you literally two days ago in a pub match, hell and it even took concentrated fire from two guys, one being myself, to blow you up because surprise surprise you drive in someplace and parked and expected to be fine but tell me if you play PC so much and its so much harder than pub matches and you must need such a high skill level to survive tell me why you made such a rookie mistake

And dont get me started on SP sinks, lets use your main turret again as an example compared to the swarms you cry about so much
You need turret operation to lvl 3 to skill into a large turret and its a 1x multiplier skill correct
A 1x multiplier skill that also boosts your damage and is the only stepping stone to going into a large turret, repeating that just so we are clear
Now to even unlock the light weapon operations skill, not even a specific weapon itself just the categories operations skill, we have to get weaponry up to level 3, its also a 1x skill but offers absolutely no bonus to anything at all
Oh but it gets better, to even unlock the swarms we must get light weapons operations to lvl 3 which isnt all that daunting I mean its a 2x skill and does offer some benefit
But you know what, large hybrid turret operations is also a 2x skill, so that means you get advanced turrets with a damage boost for the exact same SP cost we have to only unlock the swarm skill for level up, not use mind you but just so we have the option to start skilling into them

So what did you want to cry about SP sinks again?

As for the last bit, you contradict yourself, if you claim Ive never seen you play logically that means you have never seen me play either so that means you have no idea I would do against vehicles
But then again by your own claims since I have proto swarms I must be popping tanks left and right with no effort so logically I cant be having trouble against them so you trying to insult me just falls apart


Think about what you say Taka instead of posting butt hurt rants because you get blown up and maybe, just maybe, people that arent whiny tankers such as yourself will take you seriously

Thank you. See the glitch has been confirmed.

Now what was the argument about this not happening?

LIES

When I first got my CBR7 I thought that I was the best around, and no tank could ever bring me down!

But then I met CEOPrex CloneA's derpship and got whooped.

You aren't crap for AV untill you go proto

wait.....did u just say that the std cycled missile turrets i like putting on my derpships of been removed?

LOL basically you are saying that I should have to work together with lol berries to get something done? That's like relying on lol berries to drive your tank?

And have you seen me and Lo jack the tire popper? XD

I'll rely on blueberries to help take down your Loltanks when you tankers start letting blueberries drive.

Till then why don't ya GET GOOD when it comes to tanks or don't drive your MLT tank in the open. And I call 'em Millitia because they drive around kill some peps and then drive into the open and then

+150 LOLTank Destruction
+50 Kill
+50 Kill
+50 Kill

LOOOOOOOOOL XD GET GOOD

30% Proto 20% adv 10% std damage nerfs. - Easier to drop adv/proto and balance by basic vs basic

Standardize Swarm launcher to 4 missiles every tier instead, adjust their damage to make up for it. - the number of missiles hasnt been a problem, its the tracking around corners and locking on through objects and firing while not looking at target and keeping lock and also jumping while getting a lock on and firing while jumping etc

Increase the Assault Forge Gun's dispersion by about 10-20%
Give Assault Forge guns a significant amount of kick requiring re-aiming between shots. - can deal with

Reduce forge gun splash. Replace with conal splash if ever possible. - FG splash should be lower than a vehicle mounted large railgun

Give PLC a sticky mechanic and damage aura. - sticky? meaning what exactly it sticks to the target and doesnt say home into the target?, anything homing is bad
PLC Breech Variant - Holds the charge instead of lashing out. Slows the operator down. May justify with damage or projectile speed change.

Reduction of AV grenades to 1, keep the same damage, make it impossible to restock via nano hives (as with all other grenades) Supply depots will still supply them at a slow rate. - would prefer if it had no homing mechanism, requires a direct hit on the hull for it to go off, if it misses and hit the ground disappears 1 second later, fine with no nano hive resupply and slow depot resupply, reduce damage by 50% its an AV support weapon not an AV weapon

Add Burst Forge gun, add significant kick between each firing, requires longer charge and not suitable for long range attacks. No splash, decent damage, just highest damage compression in the shortest amount of time. Total damage similar to other forges. Not sure if i see the need for this one

Change Assault Swarm to fire its missiles one at a time. Magazine accounts for this. Lock is not broken between firings. Semi-auto operation mode with slight delay between each firing. so tech it could fire 12missiles all at once, fastest finger 1st n all that, need numbers for missile delay between each one

Breach Swarm Launcher - Reduce Lock Box Size to that of the forge gun reticle, Longer lock time, significantly more damage but less agility - fix the SL 1st

Give Vehicles Multispectrum Flare Launchers. Prevents swarm launcher lock ons and tracking of active ones. - would it take a slot up? also would it need reloading or falre ammo to be bought and how long till they can be used again

Give Vehicles a Density field. Prevents forge gun strikes and plasma cannon strikes from hitting the vehicle, short life span and saves from one or two shots when its up. - would it take a slot up?also would it need reloading or falre ammo to be bought and how long till they can be used again

Give vehicles a mine thumper, destroys Remote explosive, proximity mines, and other mine devices in front of the vehicle. - would it take a turret slot up?

Give vehicles a mine layer 'turret'. Mines are a bit visible and can be destroyed easily and take time to arm. There is a max limit on how many can be deployed (10) - are the mines AI or AV or both?

Gyrostabilizer small turrets (against base vehicles left and right movement not up and down). Decrease their rate of turn. Allow third person camera for those gunning on the lav. Get rid of the camera scope. - decrease turn? why

Fix desync issues.
Spawn missiles further out from the tube.
Give all av weapons far better trails.

Give vehicles better damage zones, severely damaging one part effects the performance of the vehicle. Readjust the damage effectiveness on these zones. - thats WOT zone and requires a buff to all vehicles, also how do you fix stuff? whats the hp for each mod, how do you hit each mod or is it lucky hit? way too many problems with WOT method which makes everything alot more complicated so no

Who said that is was bad at AV? LOL tanks have a survival ratio of 259:1

The only tank that has ever survived is my own, and that's cuz I was feeling generous.

All I said is that AV gets hard when the game starts glitching to PC level heights, in a PUB match.

Lol you ppl and your assumptions.

And I have a corp squad filled with tankers and AV. Ask anybody in my corp and they will tell you how much teamwork I have. And besides murdering LOLTanks I also run logistics, which requires more teamwork than killing peps and trying to be good in LOLTanks

Here you go

So do I need to keep this up or have you come to your senses?

And realized that I'm trolling.

My Madrugar, costs me 450k, and it's got a good repper, 180mm steel plates, 2 beta PG extenders, a heavy armor remote repairer, and a light converse shield transporter. Along with an ST-1 missile launcher (or whatever that basic missile turret is). And I could reduce that cost to 300k if I really wanted to.

Don't believe me? Then I'll post a picture when I get home.

Tanks cost 1 Mil when you make them cost one mil

I have a 450k tank which could vaporise it, the reason a decent tank costs 1mil is mainly due to the turret which needs to be good enough to whack AV infantry and any tanks you come across

Taka just stop this bs wanting to remove proto AV.

As far as I know vehicles will have both proto mods and weapons, so if anything should happen, AV players shouldn't be allowed to use AV on anything but standard suits.

Of course there's no chance that would happen, and frankly wouldn't change a single thing since you can easily use proto AV on standard suits.

If you would just take the time and go through the vehicle changes you would see that AV will have a very hard time taking you out, especially since swarms and AV nades (and possibly the forge gun as well) are being nerfed.

Umm you do realized that it was you who messed up the text for the quotes right?

I'm capable of teamwork, but good AV is not a skill that everyone has. And I honestly doubt your credibility with lolswarms, as you can only solo with PRO AV. If you get soloed by STD/ADV AV then you suck. There is not helping or rebalancing that.

As for balancing AV, you realize that a basic SL can't do crap against a good tank right? No that's what I thought.

Stop dodging the question, do you or do you not want everyone and his grandma to have PRO AV? Do you want full 16 man teams to have AV the second you call in a car? That qualifies as teamwork right? - love double standards from loltankers.

Maybe you should pour that 1 Million ISK Into some Kleenex, because tanking clearly is not good for you.

Swarms and AV nades will likely get around a 33% nerf, at least that's what I've heard so far.

That means swarms will be doing 880 / 1100 / 1320 damage across std / adv / pro tier. That means proto swarms will be doing the amount of damage standard swarms currently do. That's a massive nerf.

If you want basic vs basic, that means no proto (or advanced) turrets for you, is that what you want? Because you simply ignored me saying standard hulls, proto mods and proto turrets = standard suits, proto mods and proto weapons.

to # 1 i agree i have never seen swarms fly backwards unless you turn your back to the target before firing.
to # 2 swarms will fly in circles depending how close you fire to the target and if you point the swarms into the air ( by circle i mean swarms do 2 tight circles then come down attempting to hit the target).
to # 3 you can get a lock when target is behind cover some times i don't know why it does it. (i think if you cant see it you shouldn't be able to lock on, this coming form a swarm user.) i thought that the swarms lock on to the bottom of the vehicle not the middle but i am not 100% sure so i apologize if i am mistaken.

on your logic of having basic hull with proto turret wouldn't that equal basic drop suit with proto weapon?
yes i agree that some AV weapons can be dialed down a bit, nades mostly i have seen nades just obliterate.

Go solo a Madruger on foot starting at stand off range with infantry escort and tell me that again.

Falchion is tier 3

Herp Derp. You do realize that this thread is about the PRO tanks that are going to be coming in the vehicle update right?

Tier 3 is prototype, this is fact

Enforcers may suck, but technically it is a prototype