DUST Search - Increase Melee hit usefulness

Jakobi Wan wrote:

wait wait wait... viable = damage

am i right?

or are you using viable = defense?

....so i'm just going to guess that you're mad melee isn't a more important aspect in a (tacitcal)shooting game? more important than being able to finish off an incapacitated clone? more important than a close quarters defense for holding objectives or protecting teamates? more important than being able to destroy nano-hives and drop-links? more important than being the only way next to remote mines of damaging a foe without giving away your position on the radar?

if you're mad because you cant handle your own explosive AOE from whatever no-skill weapon you use and it seems like your melee isn't a viable substitute for a "sidearm" then its your own fault you cant aim/move and you should be using micro-stimulants if it's really that often of an occurrence for you.

need i say more?

you're asking for something that CCP has already given you the ability to do freely don't act like I'm being a narcosis for trying to educate you as condescending as it may have been..

maybe you're using the wrong suit... ? if you cant catch em you cant hit em :P

Artificer Ghost wrote:

I'd like the Gallente melee weapon to be a pair of 'power gauntlets' for lack name.

Very low range, VERY high damage, and the ability to knock people back. To the moon. In the daytime. That's a long ways.

Seriously though. Maybe an exoskeleton thing that augments your brofist power? Anything that lets me punch someone to death.

EDIT: Also, if you hit someone in the back with any type of melee weapon (Not an actual melee), then you do a sweet animation that = instakill. Like if you see a hacker, it's much more effective than having to waste all them bullets. And with the exoskeleton mentioned before you would pick them up by their neck and throw them against the nearest wall. >:D


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Rei Meix Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.10.13 22:54:00 - [1] - Quote I'm not requesting for a OHK melee hit, but i'd like it to be increased to where a melee hit would actually be of valid use outside of the "out of ammo, enemy is low, last ditch effort" situation. I'd like for it to either inflict enough damage, and/or perhaps provide a benefit to myself (no clue what this would entail) and/or a negative to the target (reduced movement? blurriness? increased sway?) where given that I'm not yet spotted, it would be beneficial to risk getting closer and landing a melee hit. Currently, while I like to do it just for the fun(and possibly psychological) factor before i unload into a target, it's actually detrimental to do so as it makes me more vulnerable, and causes less damage without any real upside. Not counting the time it takes to move up to the target, in just the time it takes to perform the hit and including the delay after the hit (about one second total i suppose), you can output more damage just shooting. Roughly estimating I'd say during the time it takes to perform a melee hit and including the delay after the attack (before you can sprint/fire, or perform any other action), you can fire about 7 shots from an AR (total output of 238 dmg before dmg mods/proficiency). A melee hit deals 110 damage from a medium frame. Note that I only selected the AR because it was equipped when I wanted to test this. Considering other weapons, I'd assume for most weapons where you may be close enough to consider dealing a melee hit, it would also deal less damage when compared to just firing (smg, scrambler rifle, scrambler pistol, hmg). * Imo, the attack itself without a mod is also almost useless to use by itself in CQC. I would like to see this changed where it's at least somewhat viable.
Rei Meix Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 39	Posted - 2013.10.13 23:27:00 - [2] - Quote Jakobi Wan wrote: since when ever has coming to a gun fight with your fisty-cuffs swinging ever been a viable method of fighting? it's a finishing blow to a wounded merc, not your first option.. think about it That was not me asking for it to actually be an effective fighting tactic in itself. It was me saying it shouldn't be a death sentence. Although currently maybe it is useful enough in that regard. But that was merely a side point I wanted to note. The main point i'm making is that in almost all forms melee currently provides no usefulness (besides I suppose the 240 damage hit by Commando's according to Artificer) in regards to current EHP of suits. I'm simply trying to add utility to it. Not anything extreme. An additional 50 dmg (basic suit anyway) perhaps? A 5-10% increase in sway? A blurriness in vision for 3-5 seconds? The negative effects on a target would likely be easiest to apply and would not make stacking dmg mods a one-hit. *And Hello Artificer. Despite writing this I'm one of those people that did not really check on stats. But I suppose this is a good time to do so. Melee Damage per hit by suit type: Light Frame - 80. Minmatar Scout Maxed - 100 Medium Frame - 110 Heavy Basic - 150 Commando - 240
Rei Meix Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 42	Posted - 2013.10.15 00:22:00 - [3] - Quote Jakobi Wan wrote: the only thing melee was ment for besides a last desperate act of a clone fighting for survival... is to put down incapacitated enemies so they cant be revived.. if you're not doing this already you've missed one of the biggest effective uses of melee... you're good, get better, & stop asking for things My apologies but unless you're one of the game designers, I don't consider your opinion of "melee as a last resort" as the only thing melee was meant for. And I'd like to believe I'm adequate at this game, although that's irrelevant in this discussion. I'm not asking just for the sake of asking, I'm asking to insert utility into what i currently consider a mostly useless albeit interesting and somewhat funny action. I don't want to make it stronger or better than nova knives, but rather provide something different. Who do you know that currently relies on melee hits often and successfully? Jakobi Wan wrote: if they put in a melee weapon that's bigger than the novas but isnt a 1 hit kill then maybe there's reason to be interested in melee system.. if you guys are relying on your melee you're playing the game wrong.. get over it.. stop wasting all your ammo missing I'm not saying that it's impossible to get a melee kill (actually, I believe the only time I've mentioned killing with it was that it's the only time I deem it possibly useful as a last resort, and even then just barely), but that I want more out of the action other than that act. I want the action of a melee hit to be more viable in more situations. Not something you should rely on as a crutch, but just an option if you feel really confident in it at that specific moment for whatever weird reason. Why should a merc gain substantially less for sneaking up into melee range and landing a hit before unloading? Personally, I believe the discussion should be geared towards "What harm would come from increasing the usefulness of (~currently useless) melee hits?" Since i'm not asking for a major increase in damage, it wouldn't replace nova knives; although if it becomes useful enough (in providing a self benefit or hampering the enemy), it MAY compete against equipping nova knives. It's also unlikely to be more useful or reliable than traditional methods of killing an enemy. So why not? What arguments are there against it gameplay wise? TLDR: I don't want overpowered melee hits. Just more useful ones. Why not?
Rei Meix Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 42	Posted - 2013.10.15 17:41:00 - [4] - Quote Jakobi Wan wrote: wait wait wait... viable = damage am i right? or are you using viable = defense? ....so i'm just going to guess that you're mad melee isn't a more important aspect in a (tacitcal)shooting game? more important than being able to finish off an incapacitated clone? more important than a close quarters defense for holding objectives or protecting teamates? more important than being able to destroy nano-hives and drop-links? more important than being the only way next to remote mines of damaging a foe without giving away your position on the radar? if you're mad because you cant handle your own explosive AOE from whatever no-skill weapon you use and it seems like your melee isn't a viable substitute for a "sidearm" then its your own fault you cant aim/move and you should be using micro-stimulants if it's really that often of an occurrence for you. need i say more? you're asking for something that CCP has already given you the ability to do freely don't act like I'm being a narcosis for trying to educate you as condescending as it may have been.. maybe you're using the wrong suit... ? if you cant catch em you cant hit em :P Definition of Viable - practicable; workable: a viable alternative. The definition of viable i'm applying here is "usable". As in not (almost) useless. Increased damage was one of the things I mentioned which would give a feel of usability/viability to melee, but personally I'd prefer something like inflicted blurriness[static?]/sway. We don't actually have to increase its damage at all to make it more useful. Those actions you've listed can all be done with melee yes, but given most situations(when I'm not directly next to it, or sometimes even if I am) i'd rather just shoot the incapped clone or equipment.. FYI, no actions reveal your position on the radar. What brings you up on the tacnet is being spotted by an enemy or scanned (I don't use scanners much so I'm not sure, but I believe this doesn't actually bring you on the tacnet, it simply overlays a display onto your HUD). Your own actions have NO effect on scan profile or visibility. I'm not mad that melee isn't more useful. It does have its uses. I AM disappointed it doesn't have more uses. You seem to be attempting to make this a personal matter or something related to a player's performance in this game. If it matters that much to you, I use a variety of weapons but do not use explosive weapons besides grenades or the rare flaylock(which i personally dislike although I've only ever tried standard) simply to meet fitting requirements while utilizing the sidearm slot. I personally love the shotgun (can't really get much CQC than a shotgun besides novaknives). Recently I've also appreciated the use of a laser rifle paired with an smg. Sidearms are awesome, they're why I prefer assault over logi suits. I'd equip a sidearm even if melee was improved. As far as I can tell, I don't really have much of a problem hitting a target with melee either. The problem I have is wanting to hit them with it in the first place. Why do you believe that the only people who could make use of a modified/improved melee are those that CAN'T aim? If you truly believe that the current melee system is perfect as is no improvements can be made. That's also fine. This is my opinion that I'm sharing and wish to discuss. Note: Do you mean "narcissist"? The definition of which is "Vanity, or egotistic admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, that derive from arrogant pride". If you do mean that, than I'm not trying to make you seem like one nor insult you. Doing so would be detrimental to this thread; having no positive upsides but possibly turning it into one of personal attacks. I'm simply discussing my opinion of your arguments and hoping it leads to either increased knowledge for myself, you, or just a good discussion regarding the matter. Artificer Ghost wrote: I'd like the Gallente melee weapon to be a pair of 'power gauntlets' for lack name. Very low range, VERY high damage, and the ability to knock people back. To the moon. In the daytime. That's a long ways. Seriously though. Maybe an exoskeleton thing that augments your brofist power? Anything that lets me punch someone to death. EDIT: Also, if you hit someone in the back with any type of melee weapon (Not an actual melee), then you do a sweet animation that = instakill. Like if you see a hacker, it's much more effective than having to waste all them bullets. And with the exoskeleton mentioned before you would pick them up by their neck and throw them against the nearest wall. >:D While I really wanted to focus the conversation on the R3 melee hit itself rather than equippable weapons/augmentations, "instant-grab instakill" functions are in my opinion not great implementations into a game. Perhaps if the merc had to "charge" the hit or stand behind the target for an additional half a second to a second or so? I wouldn't want it leading to something like scouts darting behind a heavy and "locking" a kill in with a melee.
Rei Meix Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2013.10.16 20:40:00 - [5] - Quote ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote: TBH, the current melee is the reason I specced into knives. Before I always found myself behind the enemy... this is BEFORE I even knew of light/scout suits. After I learned more about the game I specced into scout suits and found myself popping up behind the enemy even more then ever! My experience in other FPS games has trained me to silently take out unsuspecting targets and so, without thinking, I would creep up to them and hit them with a melee... I died quite a few times because of this. Eventually I seen the Nova Knives and noticed the low fitting requirements and thought "This could work!". Best decision I've made in DUST so far! About scanning: Active scanners causes those that are scanned to appear on your squads HUD. Light frames use this to plan out flanking maneuvers or cause panic in the enemy's forces (they second guess there tactics giving your team time to attack). Not 100% sure but I do believe the use of weapons does in fact make you visible on nearby hostile TacNets. Just to make sure I understand, you're saying the current melee is ineffective and doesn't add to your game experience, other than having made you spec into novaknives. Thanks for the confirmation on scanners. And while i'm not certain of it, I think a devpost a while back clarified that actions (running, crouching, walking, shooting) have no effect on profile/TacNet. Borne Velvalor wrote: You know what I do when I run out of ammo in CQC? I hit R2 instead of R3 and keep firing. If my SMG is my main CQC weapon, then if they aren't dead after 100 bullets, I've screwed up. The melee only one shots enemies that are literally within 5 SMG rounds worth of damage to death. At this point, they're going to kill you before you can get into melee range or run outside of melee range and kill you from there. I cannot even remember the last time I've died to melee or killed with melee. Sadly, it is indeed quite ineffective.
Rei Meix Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 43	Posted - 2013.10.18 05:44:00 - [6] - Quote Joel II X wrote: -snip- I think I read somewhere that certain actions like walking or running doesn't affect it, but shooting? Are you sure that had no impact on the radar? I thought it did. That's the only reason why I spotted basic light snipers... Please correct me if I'm wrong. Source would be appreciated. Sorry but I can't source the info. I've attempted to relocate it but was not able to find it. Perhaps I'm just remember it incorrectly. And yes, I also think reduced stamina usage would be beneficial and a possible modification if CCP wishes to change things. Jakobi Wan wrote: Rei Meix wrote: I wouldn't want it leading to something like scouts darting behind a heavy and "locking" a kill in with a melee. but that's what you just described... a way of locking the enemy into a trophy kill.. forget you man.. your asking for something that CCP has already given us!!! use your freakin micro-stimulants and stop whining.. i got my ass beatdown by 3scouts today as my sentinal because i cant turn as fast as they can... what more do you want? you just read a deffinition off dictionary.com and expect me to all of a sudden understand your rediculas ramblings? what i asked was, WHAT DOES VIABLE MEAN TO YOU? because if you want it stronger or "faster striking" then that's on YOU not CCP cause they already gave your incompatent clones the ability to use cardiac regulators/microfiber stimulants... these will solve all your problems.. did you just read my suggestions to you and then just say to yourself, "because i havn't tested this mechanism myself it must be false!"??? you're good, get better, stop asking for things.. LIKE if you use MICROFIBER STIMULANTS &/or CARDIAC REGULATORS My dictionary reference was simply to explain my use of the word viable as it seemed you didn't understand how i was using it. I went further in that post and explained my reasoning of the word "viable" in that attempt. My apologies if you read what I wrote in response as the same thing I'm requesting for. What I'm against is a system such as BF3 where getting behind an enemy "locks" in an immediate OHK. I'm requesting for no such thing in this game. Have my ideas on the matter not been clear enough? Personally I believe that using a slot for a module to improve a useless mechanic into something more useful is not a smart choice. You're sacrificing a slot just to be able to deal more damage with a melee hit. I may be wrong though. That's not "viable" in my opinion if you'd like me to put it that way. Have you tested the mechanic yourself using such modules and found your experience to be pleasant? If so, please share. I'd like to ask you to refrain from personal attacks though, as it appears this conversation may lead that way if it continues On a further note, yes, increasing damage might indeed make melee too "OP" after stacking melee mods, which is why I also suggested things such as induced sway/blurriness/static. Another possible thing might be a "slow", reducing the target's movement speed/run speed. Things that could be considered useful besides extra damage.