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Denak Kalamari wrote:

As for what 514 means, or why the first generation clones went insane in the first place?

[tinfoilhat]

Reading the Stranded chronicles, and the last section from the Speaks and Walks chronicle reveal something crucial to us. The whole 514 disorder isn't actually gone. You see, in Stranded, some consciousness is talking to Balac in all the chronicles, telling him where to go and what to do, sometimes giving him cryptic proverbs and descriptions. I assume this consciousness is part of the Kilm'ach mentioned at the start of Stranded part 3, or a Sleeper in the very least. Then in the Speaks and Walks chronicle, there is a section that is most interesting:

Speaks and Walks wrote:

Sometimes - in blessed, sacred moments - he is alone, part of nothing and beholden to no one. The rest of the time, he is living the life of some other being that inhabits him, with no solitude and nothing but a haze of constant motion, like a puppet being yanked on by its strings.

During his lucid moments, he feels like he's being wielded by some other creature, in battle and daily life. When he opens his mouth, he truly does not know whether the words that come out - if he can bring himself to speak at all - will make any sense to him. When he walks, he doesn't know whether he may turn, or stop, or fall to his knees. He is rapidly becoming useless, a weapon wielded only for show. At most he can move and blink and breathe - the rest of his existence belongs to a force that he does not understand.

His dreams are of other places, and incorporate memories he knows he did not used to have.

Then further on in the chronicle, there is a crucial line of text:

Speaks and Walks wrote:

Those he encounters on a daily basis may ask him questions, and he will answer to the best of his ability, but for the most part he simply tries to do his job properly. Their voices are the only ones he hears; the one in his head is gone, at last.

I think that every single clone soldier has a Sleeper consciousness in them, which is causing this 514 disorder. It has not been eradicated as Sarum said, it has only become milder as new generations(Codex, Chromosome, Uprising etc.) have been created. I think that these implants have a Sleeper consciousness in them is because a long time ago, when Sleepers were still alive, something horrible happened, possibly a disease(not the Jovian disease, Sleepers splintered off the Jove long before that) and their whole race was in the verge of extinction. As a last ditch effort to continue their existence, they created the Sleeper implant was created, which allowed them to remain in a forever state of hibernation. All implants would be connected to each other, and the consciousnesses inhabiting them would live together as a hive mind of sorts, living in a virtual reality.

When the empires discovered these implants and started making them for their own use, the Sleeper consciousnesses were also transferred for these implants. The Sleepers had possibly discovered a way to reverse their condition, and saw the empires using these implants as an opportunity to possibly save their race. So they started guiding Balac, the Traveler to old Sleeper facilities which would be crucial to fixing the Sleeper condition. The Stranded chronicles were never finished, so I do not know what happened to Balac(CCP, get back to writing them!). Regardless, whatever happened to Balac, it was not enough and the Sleepers continued trying to guide people from the implants the empires were manufacturing. But with each new implant, the connection to the mercenary using it grew weaker, being only occasional voices in their heads, or flashes of things that the mercenaries had never experienced.

The blood-red skies, Sleeper virtual reality. Strange beings, Sleepers living in the virtual reality trying to establish contact with the clone soldiers. Number 514 is a little trickier, but I think it has something to do with this Sleeper condition. Perhaps 514 was the original amount of people who were affected by this condition, or perhaps it is the number of people who survived the condition and started living in the virtual reality.

[/tinfoilhat]

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Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 97	Posted - 2013.10.11 01:38:00 - [1] - Quote ((If you insist on role-playing, at least make sure you have some grasp on WHAT you are RP-ing about. Lots of very silly stuff going on here. There are quite a few EVE players around with extensive knowledge of the lore who can answer questions you may have, myself included. ))
Maximia Beflas Derringer Defenses 1	Posted - 2013.10.11 02:23:00 - [2] - Quote Dagger-Two wrote: ((If you insist on role-playing, at least make sure you have some grasp on WHAT you are RP-ing about. Lots of very silly stuff going on here. There are quite a few EVE players around with extensive knowledge of the lore who can answer questions you may have, myself included. )) Pretty sure this is a non-OOC chat thread thingy.... :l sorry, take it to Dust 514 Fiction for etc.. but I think we need to spread the word that rules are established and ooc chat is done at Dust 514 Summit fiction OOC chat there..... just letting you know :) I agree though, a lot of stuff going on, sometimes randoming but not a lot. Welcome though! You seem new :)
exolden shadovar Iron Havok 16	Posted - 2013.11.08 12:05:00 - [3] - Quote meh i kinda think in char speculation about stuff we technically shouldn't know about is kinda fun
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 562	Posted - 2013.11.08 12:19:00 - [4] - Quote Is it really that hard to read one sticky? Grahisha of the ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier
exolden shadovar Iron Havok 16	Posted - 2013.11.08 15:35:00 - [5] - Quote is it really that hard to suk me
Soldier Sorajord ShootBreakStab 23	Posted - 2013.11.09 20:33:00 - [6] - Quote What faction Is ConCord (police?) Affiliated with? And where did they come from? Honor, Teamwork, Victory. I may only be a meager soldier now. But I will become.. *Legend!*
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 583	Posted - 2013.11.09 21:27:00 - [7] - Quote Soldier Sorajord wrote: What faction Is CONCORD (police?) Affiliated with? And where did they come from? EVElopedia has a more detailed answer, but I'll explain shortly anyway. CONCORD was formed shortly after all the five empires had formed contact with each other(the fifth is the Jove Empire) in cooperation by all the empires to keep a peace between all of them, and has lately been also used to keep a safe trading environment, and keep capsuleers in check. They aren't affiliated with anyone per se, as they are mostly an independent and separate entity of all the empires. And before you ask, no, your clone soldier can not be originating from CONCORD. And can the mods please move this to the appropriate section please? Grahisha of the ILF // Writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1566	Posted - 2013.11.11 22:11:00 - [8] - Quote Where did 5-1-4 come from, like what does it symbolize.(I realize this is a broad topic but supposedly and eve player figured it out so I'm guessing eve players have knowledge we don't) And can some one please explain to me the Templars (I know they were the first set of clones and all but like, why? And stuff) Thanks. "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4077	Posted - 2013.11.11 23:37:00 - [9] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: Where did 5-1-4 come from, like what does it symbolize.(I realize this is a broad topic but supposedly and eve player figured it out so I'm guessing eve players have knowledge we don't) And can some one please explain to me the Templars (I know they were the first set of clones and all but like, why? And stuff) Thanks. We still don't know but some suspect it has to do with the 14th Expeditionary Corps, so I believe Aisha once told me, discovering the clone soldier impants in and around Mishii V. Hence a little easter egg in lore of V 14, or 514. Like all first Gens the Templars were unstable, they were purged at the request of Empress Sarum in the recent Templar Hunt event as they went rogue. Subsequent generations of Amarrian cloned soldiers do not as far as I know officially bear the name Templar. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1568	Posted - 2013.11.11 23:39:00 - [10] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: Where did 5-1-4 come from, like what does it symbolize.(I realize this is a broad topic but supposedly and eve player figured it out so I'm guessing eve players have knowledge we don't) And can some one please explain to me the Templars (I know they were the first set of clones and all but like, why? And stuff) Thanks. We still don't know but some suspect it has to do with the 14th Expeditionary Corps, so I believe Aisha once told me, discovering the clone soldier impants in and around Mishii V. Hence a little easter egg in lore of V 14, or 514. Like all first Gens the Templars were unstable, they were purged at the request of Empress Sarum in the recent Templar Hunt event as they went rogue. Subsequent generations of Amarrian cloned soldiers do not as far as I know officially bear the name Templar. Awesome, thanks :) "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

Soldier Sorajord ShootBreakStab 23	Posted - 2013.11.12 02:50:00 - [11] - Quote Is there any official information about the jove and why there are so few of them? Honor, Teamwork, Victory. I may only be a meager soldier now. But I will become.. *Legend!*
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4085	Posted - 2013.11.12 03:02:00 - [12] - Quote Soldier Sorajord wrote: Is there any official information about the jove and why there are so few of them? Not that our characters are knowledgeable about. They are very enigmatic. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 134	Posted - 2013.11.12 05:17:00 - [13] - Quote Out of character, you can find information about the Jovian's history and some of the affairs they have been involved in, especially their link to the sleepers (the sleepers were once a part of Jovian society, but fled) and the Enheduanni (also used to be a part of Jovian society, and are considered by the Jovians to be the greatest enemy in New Eden. The Jove fought their influence of the other empires relentlessly) In character, we know about the Jovian disease, and have for several years now assumes that it has completely consumed their race. Probes that were sent through Sansha wormholes during the initial incursions revealed that the Sansha were staging their attacks out of Jovian space, and the technology to generate the wormholes was likely Jovian as well. This goes further to prove that the Jove themselves are dead, and the Sansha have invaded their territory and plundered their technology to some degree. In all likelihood, all that remains of the Jove now are the computer backups of themselves many left to watch over their ghost empire. (that is OOC. It is assumed that many Jovians saved their personalities into limited-function A.I.-like constructs much like Grious did, which you can read about in Templar-One, to keep some sort of presence in their space even after they were physically gone).
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 134	Posted - 2013.11.12 05:37:00 - [14] - Quote As for 5-1-4, there is a lot of speculation but CCP has not said any of it is correct (and they DID say that there was a reward for whoever figured it out =D ) The origins of the implant, the actual FIRST implants, is from the 'Sleepers' in wormhole-space. When the Amarr ventured into the abandoned Sleeper enclaves, they found the Sleepers themselves in stasis within individual 'pods'. At first they believed these sleepers to be dead, and removed their bodies from pods for examination. Inside the sleeper brains they found the implant, though at first they had no idea what it was for. Eventually they figured out that the implant was an incredibly advanced device capable of transmitting a consciousness back and forth between...well they didn't know between WHAT. What they did know was that it was far more advanced than the current method of brain transfer used by the capsuleers. They also soon learned that the Sleepers themselves were, indeed, still alive, but continued 'harvesting' anyways. On the other side of it, the Sleepers themselves used the implant to connect their mind directly to an artificially constructed world, a virtual reality as real as the world outside. inside it, they had reached a technological singularity, where nothing was beyond their grasp. The entirety of their race now resided within their virtual world. As the empires began harvesting, the sleeper world was being torn apart. In the first clone soldiers (of all empires, not just the templars) sleepers oblivious to the fact their bodies had been removed and their implant placed in the mind of another, began returning to their own minds, only to find another one there. Having two consciousnesses within one mind drove many of the first generation clones insane, which led to all the 'incidents' that were reported. 5-1-4 has something to do with the sleepers, a warning perhaps. In any case, the use of these implants was quickly curbed by Jamyl Sarum, who realized she was playing into the 'Others' hand (the Other is a sleeper AI, born within their virtual world, that was the cause for the catastrophe that tore the sleepers physical world apart, which is why if you visit wormhole space you can see sleeper enclaves in ruin and quarantine warnings in space. He now resides within Jamyl Sarum's head, a result of the use of Jovian technology in her cloned body) Long story short: implants harvested initially from sleeper brains, with disasterous results. Jamyl ordered the technology be reverse engineered as best as possible so that the murder of the sleepers could stop. The resulting 'new' implants are advanced, but not as advanced as the sleeper tech, yet still perform the same basic function. As for 5-1-4...nobody knows for sure
Denak Kalamari Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative 597	Posted - 2013.11.12 05:51:00 - [15] - Quote Dagger-Two wrote: Speculation Nice theory, I like it. I've also made speculation of my own about the origin of the 514 madness, and why it happened, so I thought to share it here: Denak Kalamari wrote: As for what 514 means, or why the first generation clones went insane in the first place? [tinfoilhat] Reading the Stranded chronicles, and the last section from the Speaks and Walks chronicle reveal something crucial to us. The whole 514 disorder isn't actually gone. You see, in Stranded, some consciousness is talking to Balac in all the chronicles, telling him where to go and what to do, sometimes giving him cryptic proverbs and descriptions. I assume this consciousness is part of the Kilm'ach mentioned at the start of Stranded part 3, or a Sleeper in the very least. Then in the Speaks and Walks chronicle, there is a section that is most interesting: Speaks and Walks wrote: Sometimes - in blessed, sacred moments - he is alone, part of nothing and beholden to no one. The rest of the time, he is living the life of some other being that inhabits him, with no solitude and nothing but a haze of constant motion, like a puppet being yanked on by its strings. During his lucid moments, he feels like he's being wielded by some other creature, in battle and daily life. When he opens his mouth, he truly does not know whether the words that come out - if he can bring himself to speak at all - will make any sense to him. When he walks, he doesn't know whether he may turn, or stop, or fall to his knees. He is rapidly becoming useless, a weapon wielded only for show. At most he can move and blink and breathe - the rest of his existence belongs to a force that he does not understand. His dreams are of other places, and incorporate memories he knows he did not used to have. Then further on in the chronicle, there is a crucial line of text: Speaks and Walks wrote: Those he encounters on a daily basis may ask him questions, and he will answer to the best of his ability, but for the most part he simply tries to do his job properly. Their voices are the only ones he hears; the one in his head is gone, at last. I think that every single clone soldier has a Sleeper consciousness in them, which is causing this 514 disorder. It has not been eradicated as Sarum said, it has only become milder as new generations(Codex, Chromosome, Uprising etc.) have been created. I think that these implants have a Sleeper consciousness in them is because a long time ago, when Sleepers were still alive, something horrible happened, possibly a disease(not the Jovian disease, Sleepers splintered off the Jove long before that) and their whole race was in the verge of extinction. As a last ditch effort to continue their existence, they created the Sleeper implant was created, which allowed them to remain in a forever state of hibernation. All implants would be connected to each other, and the consciousnesses inhabiting them would live together as a hive mind of sorts, living in a virtual reality. When the empires discovered these implants and started making them for their own use, the Sleeper consciousnesses were also transferred for these implants. The Sleepers had possibly discovered a way to reverse their condition, and saw the empires using these implants as an opportunity to possibly save their race. So they started guiding Balac, the Traveler to old Sleeper facilities which would be crucial to fixing the Sleeper condition. The Stranded chronicles were never finished, so I do not know what happened to Balac(CCP, get back to writing them!). Regardless, whatever happened to Balac, it was not enough and the Sleepers continued trying to guide people from the implants the empires were manufacturing. But with each new implant, the connection to the mercenary using it grew weaker, being only occasional voices in their heads, or flashes of things that the mercenaries had never experienced. The blood-red skies, Sleeper virtual reality. Strange beings, Sleepers living in the virtual reality trying to establish contact with the clone soldiers. Number 514 is a little trickier, but I think it has something to do with this Sleeper condition. Perhaps 514 was the original amount of people who were affected by this condition, or perhaps it is the number of people who survived the condition and started living in the virtual reality. [/tinfoilhat] Do note that my information is based on publicly available chronicles and the EVElopedia, as I haven't read Templar One or the Empyrean Age. I might be completely off the track, but it's my speculation regardless. I also admit that my speculation about the Speaks and Walks chronicle could be refuted by saying that it's about a Gen 1 soldier, but it was an interesting tidbit of information anyway so I thought to mention it. Grahisha and writer of Thoughts of a Clone Soldier, latest entry published 09/11/13
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 134	Posted - 2013.11.12 06:10:00 - [16] - Quote None of what i wrote is speculation, it is all lore compiled from the chronicles, short stories, and novels. It's not my rendition, its the ACTUAL story of the origin of the clone-soldier technology and it's fallout
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4102	Posted - 2013.11.12 09:22:00 - [17] - Quote Dagger-Two wrote: None of what i wrote is speculation, it is all lore compiled from the chronicles, short stories, and novels. It's not my rendition, its the ACTUAL story of the origin of the clone-soldier technology and it's fallout Wouldn't it be interesting to tap into that inner Sleeper consciousness? Think of what they might know that is so vastly different from what I suppose the current species that inhabits new eden would know. An interesting thing to think about personally is that knowing the sleepers OOC were masters of neural interfacing, virtual reality, etc....do they or did they think like biological. You could assume a biological to think in a self satisfying manner.... "I want this done, I want to do this, I don't want to do that" What would being of the physical and non physical think like? "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 134	Posted - 2013.11.12 15:24:00 - [18] - Quote The reason behind their virtual world was that it was a place they could run scientific experiments that would be dangerous or impossible in the real world. It was designed to be a perfect imitation of the real universe, but could be manipulated.at will. This method of virtual experimentation is how the jove empire became so technologically advanced, and then how the sleepers became even more advanced after leavibg the jove.
Soldier Sorajord ShootBreakStab 23	Posted - 2013.11.13 02:15:00 - [19] - Quote Read up on the jove today. Their disease's symptoms remind me of those of alzheimers. Honor, Teamwork, Victory. I may only be a meager soldier now. But I will become.. *Legend!*
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 134	Posted - 2013.11.13 06:04:00 - [20] - Quote The history of the jove and their bretheren, their fight against forces atempting to manipulate the empires, and their fate, are very interesting topics if you enjoy immersing yourself in the eve lore. I'm happy to see dust pkayers asking questions and showing interest in it. I highly recommend the novels 'Empyrean Age' and 'Templar One' if you like the lore. They really show a lot of the stuff that went on in recent years but is ooc knowledge. There are also the EVE trailers on ccp's youtube channel, which even fiends of mine who arent interested in eve agree are some of the greatest game trailers youve ever seen. The chronicles and shirt stories are also great reads if yoy have the time. , I personally recomend a short story called 'Theodicy', which takes place about 200 years ago just prior to the minmatar rebellion. You learn a lot about the Jove in it, as well as the history of Gallente-Minmatar relations, the brutality of the Amarr 'reclaiming', and the beginning of the rebellion.

True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4129	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:14:00 - [21] - Quote I know this isn't directly related to the lore aspect, but this is related to RP behaviour..... Walking into a place and pulling a gun, stabbing someone, violent acts....big no no. Walking into a place and demanding something without explaining why you want it or introducing yourself..... not very polite and unlikely you will get what you want out of the encounter. Just saying.... "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1620	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:18:00 - [22] - Quote True Adamance wrote: I know this isn't directly related to the lore aspect, but this is related to RP behaviour..... Walking into a place and pulling a gun, stabbing someone, violent acts....big no no. Walking into a place and demanding something without explaining why you want it or introducing yourself..... not very polite and unlikely you will get what you want out of the encounter. Just saying.... Guessing this is about me.... 1. I didn't point a gun at someone (read it again, I "placed a package" on the table or whatever) 2. I strongly believe in the less people know, the better off I'll be (so that explains the ret of that) "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 4130	Posted - 2013.11.14 21:39:00 - [23] - Quote Fire of Prometheus wrote: True Adamance wrote: I know this isn't directly related to the lore aspect, but this is related to RP behaviour..... Walking into a place and pulling a gun, stabbing someone, violent acts....big no no. Walking into a place and demanding something without explaining why you want it or introducing yourself..... not very polite and unlikely you will get what you want out of the encounter. Just saying.... Guessing this is about me.... 1. I didn't point a gun at someone (read it again, I "placed a package" on the table or whatever) 2. I strongly believe in the less people know, the better off I'll be (so that explains the ret of that) 2 was about you 1 was so we don't have a repeat of Aztec in the bar... Just so you know Metsar isn't really you normal merc, you might treat others in a more moderate way....but PIE holds sway within the empire (not that we could or would do anything to you) and is the current ranking officer within our ground organisation. Because of the way PIE, the empire, and his position work he may well decided simply not to help at all, though I cannot speak for him. "All things were created by the Divine, and so the glory of our faith is inherent to us all"
Heathen Bastard The Bastard Brigade 684	Posted - 2013.11.14 23:01:00 - [24] - Quote aztec at the bar was fun! If you hear the words "WORTH IT!" look about, something hilarious just happened.
Fire of Prometheus DUST University Ivy League 1621	Posted - 2013.11.14 23:26:00 - [25] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Fire of Prometheus wrote: True Adamance wrote: I know this isn't directly related to the lore aspect, but this is related to RP behaviour..... Walking into a place and pulling a gun, stabbing someone, violent acts....big no no. Walking into a place and demanding something without explaining why you want it or introducing yourself..... not very polite and unlikely you will get what you want out of the encounter. Just saying.... Guessing this is about me.... 1. I didn't point a gun at someone (read it again, I "placed a package" on the table or whatever) 2. I strongly believe in the less people know, the better off I'll be (so that explains the ret of that) 2 was about you 1 was so we don't have a repeat of Aztec in the bar... Just so you know Metsar isn't really you normal merc, you might treat others in a more moderate way....but PIE holds sway within the empire (not that we could or would do anything to you) and is the current ranking officer within our ground organisation. Because of the way PIE, the empire, and his position work he may well decided simply not to help at all, though I cannot speak for him. Clearly I'm new to the whole RP aspect so....forgive my n00bness about this issue "It is the mark of an educated mind to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle
Dagger-Two Villore Joint Task Force Villore Accords 134	Posted - 2013.11.15 01:31:00 - [26] - Quote I don't know what establishment you speak of, but on stations weapons are prohibited. High tech weapons have built-in safeties that disable them aboard stations, and everyone is screened to make sure nobody carries any simpler weapons. Smuggling a weapon or any dangerous goods onto a station is a very difficult task. A private off-station site may have less security, but I would imagine that it would still be in any bar owners best interests to make sure nobody starts shooting in their bar.


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