DUST Search - So I heard something to the effect of AR's getting a range review?

Shion Typhon wrote:

Nguruthos IX wrote:

When does this hit? 1.5?

I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better.

Due to the worthless map design in Dust there is only one engagement range ... long. Only on the fewest of occasions is there sufficient cover to cause fights to be at point blank ranges and most people avoid them due to ****** map design making them grenade death traps and directionless, flowless, grabby bug-ridden mazes. There are very few staircase/hangar bay/gantry fights in the game

In all but the most built up areas in select parts of the large sockets you will see and start maneuvering towards your target at 2-4x effective combat range. So what you are really asking for is simply the ability to beginning firing sooner than the other guy as you run towards each other.

If, say for example, the Scrambler has double the effective range of the AR, everyone's just going to switch to scrambler and you're back to where you started.

The problem is not simply the weapons, its the horrible map design and complete inattention to such FPS design issues like engagement range/cover/sight lines. The whole concept of open bowls punctuated by random socket placements is ********. They should have just hand crafted 5 maps and slowly added more as they got to it. The fact they are meant to be "on different planets" is just lore hokum that adds nothing to the game.

You are never going to fix this gunplay issue until someone starts to think about maps first.

All you lunatics basing your gun balance arguments around New Eden lore re blasters/hybrids/lasers/autos need to get a clue. Its a computer game, a gun is just a pointing tube with -HPs coming out one end. Gameplay balance first, then name it whatever the heck you feel like.

Pages: 1 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Nguruthos IX PEN 15 CLUB 2026	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:24:00 - [1] - Quote When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better.
Borne Velvalor BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY 24	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:40:00 - [2] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off.
SgtDoughnut Red Star Jr. EoN. 261	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:44:00 - [3] - Quote Need the damage range tweaked back to regular numbers once the other rifles hit, hell do it now since we have scr.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2674	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:50:00 - [4] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. The hell! That's the last thing they should do. NOW AR WILL OFFICIALLY BE KIN OF THE GAME RUINING THE BALANCE OF LR AND SCR.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2048	Posted - 2013.10.08 03:58:00 - [5] - Quote Borne Velvalor wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. Completely false Let me tell you a story about me killing a guy at 65 meters with an AR while he had a laser rifle I engaged from cover, he was in the open I ducked in and out of said cover, he stood stock still in the open When I got hit I hid to let my shields recover, when he got hit he kept standing there out in the open He died outside of the ARs optimal range and sent a bitchy PM after the fight claiming it was OP completely ignoring all the stupid ** he did during the engagement and you know what, I see other players do this ** all the time and then whine about the AR when they are just bad players Oh and for the record it took somewhere between 70-80 shots to actually put him down for good since the damage drop off is working as intended and he wasnt rocking a super tanked proto fit either
Summ Dude Militaires-Sans-Frontieres 49	Posted - 2013.10.08 04:23:00 - [6] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. You heard this where? According to the patch notes, no changes are being made to the AR. Hopefully (read: doubtfully), the combat and rail rifles will be released in 1.6, and the AR will subsequently be rebalanced with them in mind. Borne Velvalor wrote: Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. Was it not obvious he was joking? I thought it was obvious...
XxWarlordxX97 Ancient Exiles 4683	Posted - 2013.10.08 04:27:00 - [7] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. HMGs first
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 1074	Posted - 2013.10.08 04:46:00 - [8] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. Completely false Let me tell you a story about me killing a guy at 65 meters with an AR while he had a laser rifle I engaged from cover, he was in the open I ducked in and out of said cover, he stood stock still in the open When I got hit I hid to let my shields recover, when he got hit he kept standing there out in the open He died outside of the ARs optimal range and sent a bitchy PM after the fight claiming it was OP completely ignoring all the stupid ** he did during the engagement and you know what, I see other players do this ** all the time and then whine about the AR when they are just bad players Oh and for the record it took somewhere between 70-80 shots to actually put him down for good since the damage drop off is working as intended and he wasnt rocking a super tanked proto fit either I do this with the ar. all it means is he had a better tank then you....also moving in and out of cover tends to mean little with auto aim.
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2052	Posted - 2013.10.08 05:12:00 - [9] - Quote calisk galern wrote: Delta 749 wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. Completely false Let me tell you a story about me killing a guy at 65 meters with an AR while he had a laser rifle I engaged from cover, he was in the open I ducked in and out of said cover, he stood stock still in the open When I got hit I hid to let my shields recover, when he got hit he kept standing there out in the open He died outside of the ARs optimal range and sent a bitchy PM after the fight claiming it was OP completely ignoring all the stupid ** he did during the engagement and you know what, I see other players do this ** all the time and then whine about the AR when they are just bad players Oh and for the record it took somewhere between 70-80 shots to actually put him down for good since the damage drop off is working as intended and he wasnt rocking a super tanked proto fit either I do this with the ar. all it means is he had a better tank then you....also moving in and out of cover tends to mean little with auto aim. You do what? Stand out in the open like a moron not even attempting to throw off his aim or rub a couple brain cells together to take cover I mean hell auto aim has been scaled back drastically and is more of a hindrance anyway, I dont get why you guys still cry about it The way most people talk they act like it snap aims on to someones head from a klik away
Varjac Theobroma Montenegro M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command 9	Posted - 2013.10.08 05:34:00 - [10] - Quote I agree, I like the ARs range right where it's at. I need to choose my engagements or get closer. I think it works just fine. Also, if I am picking a tougher foe to engage, then the mentioned snap shooting or seizure strafing always helps I use a regular assault rifle with proficiency 4 and an enhanced damage mod.

Borne Velvalor BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY 27	Posted - 2013.10.08 06:24:00 - [11] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. Completely false Let me tell you a story about me killing a guy at 65 meters with an AR while he had a laser rifle I engaged from cover, he was in the open I ducked in and out of said cover, he stood stock still in the open When I got hit I hid to let my shields recover, when he got hit he kept standing there out in the open He died outside of the ARs optimal range and sent a bitchy PM after the fight claiming it was OP completely ignoring all the stupid ** he did during the engagement and you know what, I see other players do this ** all the time and then whine about the AR when they are just bad players Oh and for the record it took somewhere between 70-80 shots to actually put him down for good since the damage drop off is working as intended and he wasnt rocking a super tanked proto fit either The "lol" emote at the end should've made it clear I was making a joke. What exactly was "false" when you could not ascertain the point? If it wasn't clear enough, then I do apologize. I just thought it would be funny if CCP did that in response to all the players saying that the drop-off is too slow. Note the "everyone was complaining about the"; never did I state my opinion. I've stated this before, but I actually don't have a major problem with the Assault Rifle's drop-off. I just don't think other weapons aren't good enough at their niches to compensate for the AR versatility, including, in part, its drop-off, resulting in almost all players using Assault Rifles. If you look at a shield efficacy chart, you'll see that Laser Rifles do have almost 80% higher efficacy against shields at your particular range. You were skilled. However, in general, Laser Rifles are not a good weapon against Assault Rifles. They have a decent band where they outperform them in efficacy, but here's the thing. Laser Rifles deal more damage the longer you hold them on a target, while AR always have the same DPS. The result is that, as long as you have any piece of cover to hide behind, it's impossible to out DPS an AR user. Pop out, shoot them a bit, pop back in. The laser overheats relatively quickly. Most don't want to overheat, so they stop firing shortly after a target goes into cover. Their DPS is now reset to minimum, which is like firing marshmallows, even against an AR at that range, and there's nothing they can do to counter that. To make matters worse, they deal a whopping 50% more damage to shields than armor. They'll cut through your shields and then not be able to finish you off if you have enough armor. Shields are the most easily recoverable form of health; they heal on their own. This makes them better long range support than anything. Obviously, you out skilled that guy and he should've fallen back once you got to cover to a better position or just gave up. However, in general, unless people stand around like idiots, it's hard to kill them with a LR. I have gotten shot at by a lot of Laser Rifles, yet only 1% of my deaths are to them at best. You need to catch people off guard, or they'll slaughter you. With Assault Rifles, all you need to do is fire and you have instant, competitive damage that will out damage most weapons within 60%-70% of their maximum range. Laser Rifles lose their damage potential as soon as you duck into cover, and they need to wait for the heat to go down, too. Laser Rifle damage at close-mid range is 25-50% and this is the range most guns operate at. Lower level Scrambler Rifles will overheat in half a dozen shots after the initial charged shot and you need to make sure those all connect. Heavy Machine Guns deal more damage than AR's at close range if every bullet hits, yet anything beyond 30m and your AR will be doing more; you might not notice because of their health and clip size, though. Submachine guns are, surprisingly enough, very competitive with Assault Rifles at very close ranges of 15m. Really, the AR is king of the hill because it works in all scenarios. If you LR, you better catch them in your optimal range outside of cover. Because of the range you are forced to stay at, if someone is behind cover, you can't chase them, throw a frag, anything. If you SR, you need to be more accurate and get that first burst out. If you HMG, your health will be what keeps you alive against AR users. Assault Rifle users have no quirks to manage to deal maximum damage. No heat, no long range combat requirements with a reverse damage drop off, no burst damage that has to land. The closer you are the more damage you do, you have a solid range and high damage. I'd say that Assault Rifles are doing their job, since that's what they are supposed to do. There just isn't enough reasons to diversify and choose other weapons.
Musta Tornius Cannonfodder PMC 627	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:07:00 - [12] - Quote AR ranges are supposedly being tweaked when the new rifles are introduced so I assume it is at 1.7.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9287	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:14:00 - [13] - Quote You're going to have to ask CCP Wolfman about that or CCP Logibro but I think they want to turn it into a dev blog so who knows.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1658	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:20:00 - [14] - Quote Great....Like the AR needs anymore nerfeing, the Gek-38 is nearly useless now. Can at least get a respec so i can spec into the Assault SCR ?
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 635	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:24:00 - [15] - Quote Banning Hammer wrote: Great....Like the AR needs anymore nerfeing, the Gek-38 is nearly useless now. Can at least get a respec so i can spec into the Assault SCR ? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahaha inhales Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha The Gek isn't even kinda useless. EDIT: Various weapon ranges are being changed when the new rifles hit, no information as to what weapons are going in what direction though.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1658	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:33:00 - [16] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: Great....Like the AR needs anymore nerfeing, the Gek-38 is nearly useless now. Can at least get a respec so i can spec into the Assault SCR ? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahaha inhales Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha The Gek isn't even kinda useless. EDIT: Various weapon ranges are being changed when the new rifles hit, no information as to what weapons are going in what direction though. I just saying... My Assault SCR Level 3 is more powerful than my Gek-38 with Level 5 / Proficiency 5 / sharpshooter 4, and 2 enhanced light damage modifiers . I'll say something is wrong with that picture....
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster 1139	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:38:00 - [17] - Quote I'll be fine if they lower my optimal range of my plasma rifle. They should also increase the range on the ScR, and maybe if it less powerful at close range.
Omareth Nasadra Qcgold 125	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:40:00 - [18] - Quote Banning Hammer wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: Great....Like the AR needs anymore nerfeing, the Gek-38 is nearly useless now. Can at least get a respec so i can spec into the Assault SCR ? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahaha inhales Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha The Gek isn't even kinda useless. EDIT: Various weapon ranges are being changed when the new rifles hit, no information as to what weapons are going in what direction though. I just saying... My Assault SCR Level 3 is more powerful than my Gek-38 with Level 5 / Proficiency 5 / sharpshooter 4, and 2 enhanced light damage modifiers . I'll say something is wrong with that picture.... i got a toon with 750k sp with a crw ascr and i tear peep new Aholes with it, going over 15 kill every game, i've tried the duvolle with my 18 million sp toon with skill at 5 and can't do as good, i'm primarly a MD and shotgun user, but i know what you mean, it's just that auto weapon these day are kinda king of the hill, hell i love my ishukone smg, but i can't help feel bad when i drop a heavy in less than a second balance is fked
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 823	Posted - 2013.10.08 08:41:00 - [19] - Quote Ryder Azorria wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: Great....Like the AR needs anymore nerfeing, the Gek-38 is nearly useless now. Can at least get a respec so i can spec into the Assault SCR ? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahaha inhales Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha The Gek isn't even kinda useless. EDIT: Various weapon ranges are being changed when the new rifles hit, no information as to what weapons are going in what direction though. Plasma Rifle, will have lower optimal, and terrible falloff, maybe 30m effective! Scrambler may come down a little to allow rail rifle above it!
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1808	Posted - 2013.10.08 09:24:00 - [20] - Quote Delta 749 wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. Completely false Let me tell you a story about me killing a guy at 65 meters with an AR while he had a laser rifle I engaged from cover, he was in the open I ducked in and out of said cover, he stood stock still in the open When I got hit I hid to let my shields recover, when he got hit he kept standing there out in the open He died outside of the ARs optimal range and sent a bitchy PM after the fight claiming it was OP completely ignoring all the stupid ** he did during the engagement and you know what, I see other players do this ** all the time and then whine about the AR when they are just bad players Oh and for the record it took somewhere between 70-80 shots to actually put him down for good since the damage drop off is working as intended and he wasnt rocking a super tanked proto fit either Ranges still need to be tweaked heavily once all of the ARs are in the game. However the system is working as intended. But in the future one AR will have short optimal range with super high damage but dropoff effects the damage sooner. Those would be your blasters. While minmatar AR with projectiles would have lower damage but more optimal range

Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 294	Posted - 2013.10.08 09:59:00 - [21] - Quote Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Due to the worthless map design in Dust there is only one engagement range ... long. Only on the fewest of occasions is there sufficient cover to cause fights to be at point blank ranges and most people avoid them due to **** map design making them grenade death traps and directionless, flowless, grabby bug-ridden mazes. There are very few staircase/hangar bay/gantry fights in the game In all but the most built up areas in select parts of the large sockets you will see and start maneuvering towards your target at 2-4x effective combat range. So what you are really asking for is simply the ability to beginning firing sooner than the other guy as you run towards each other. If, say for example, the Scrambler has double the effective range of the AR, everyone's just going to switch to scrambler and you're back to where you started. The problem is not simply the weapons, its the horrible map design and complete inattention to such FPS design issues like engagement range/cover/sight lines. The whole concept of open bowls punctuated by random socket placements is ******. They should have just hand crafted 5 maps and slowly added more as they got to it. The fact they are meant to be "on different planets" is just lore hokum that adds nothing to the game. You are never going to fix this gunplay issue until someone starts to think about maps first. All you lunatics basing your gun balance arguments around New Eden lore re blasters/hybrids/lasers/autos need to get a clue. Its a computer game, a gun is just a pointing tube with -HPs coming out one end. Gameplay balance first, then name it whatever the heck you feel like.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2640	Posted - 2013.10.08 10:58:00 - [22] - Quote Banning Hammer wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: Great....Like the AR needs anymore nerfeing, the Gek-38 is nearly useless now. Can at least get a respec so i can spec into the Assault SCR ? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahaha inhales Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha The Gek isn't even kinda useless. EDIT: Various weapon ranges are being changed when the new rifles hit, no information as to what weapons are going in what direction though. I just saying... My Assault SCR Level 3 is more powerful than my Gek-38 with Level 5 / Proficiency 5 / sharpshooter 4, and 2 enhanced light damage modifiers . I'll say something is wrong with that picture.... Only thing wrong with that picture is the Assault SCR isn't unlocked until level 4. But yeah the GEK is far better than the Assault SCR, but I still use them from time to time
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 389	Posted - 2013.10.08 11:08:00 - [23] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Yes. Everyone was complaining about the damage drop-off on Assault Rifles, so CCP decided to increase the Optimal Range of the AR to equal its Maximum Range, thus completely negating damage drop-off. The hell! That's the last thing they should do. NOW AR WILL OFFICIALLY BE KIN OF THE GAME RUINING THE BALANCE OF LR AND SCR. i agree currently the ONLY thing lr has for it is its better range.. if anything needs a balance pass its the different kind of laser rifles as truly there is no point in using anything other than standard laser rifle...the only point in skilling lr is for the skill bonuses not for any better weapon. this will ruin infantry ar having no fall off is a bad idea..thats why it was put there in the first place wth ccp wth is wrong with you
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1661	Posted - 2013.10.08 11:17:00 - [24] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: Ryder Azorria wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: Great....Like the AR needs anymore nerfeing, the Gek-38 is nearly useless now. Can at least get a respec so i can spec into the Assault SCR ? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahaha inhales Bwahahahaahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaahahahahhahahaahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha The Gek isn't even kinda useless. EDIT: Various weapon ranges are being changed when the new rifles hit, no information as to what weapons are going in what direction though. I just saying... My Assault SCR Level 3 is more powerful than my Gek-38 with Level 5 / Proficiency 5 / sharpshooter 4, and 2 enhanced light damage modifiers . I'll say something is wrong with that picture.... Only thing wrong with that picture is the Assault SCR isn't unlocked until level 4. But yeah the GEK is far better than the Assault SCR, but I still use them from time to time So i got the level wrong... I was thinking about the AR as i was typing. Tomato, tomato.... Still the same problem ... the Assault SCR is a lot better with a lot less SP.
Mortedeamor Internal Rebellion 389	Posted - 2013.10.08 11:18:00 - [25] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Nguruthos IX wrote: When does this hit? 1.5? I imagine it has something to do with AR's, scrams, LRs and their division into roles better. Due to the worthless map design in Dust there is only one engagement range ... long. Only on the fewest of occasions is there sufficient cover to cause fights to be at point blank ranges and most people avoid them due to **** map design making them grenade death traps and directionless, flowless, grabby bug-ridden mazes. There are very few staircase/hangar bay/gantry fights in the game In all but the most built up areas in select parts of the large sockets you will see and start maneuvering towards your target at 2-4x effective combat range. So what you are really asking for is simply the ability to beginning firing sooner than the other guy as you run towards each other. If, say for example, the Scrambler has double the effective range of the AR, everyone's just going to switch to scrambler and you're back to where you started. The problem is not simply the weapons, its the horrible map design and complete inattention to such FPS design issues like engagement range/cover/sight lines. The whole concept of open bowls punctuated by random socket placements is ******. They should have just hand crafted 5 maps and slowly added more as they got to it. The fact they are meant to be "on different planets" is just lore hokum that adds nothing to the game. You are never going to fix this gunplay issue until someone starts to think about maps first. All you lunatics basing your gun balance arguments around New Eden lore re blasters/hybrids/lasers/autos need to get a clue. Its a computer game, a gun is just a pointing tube with -HPs coming out one end. Gameplay balance first, then name it whatever the heck you feel like. your preaching to the choir but ccp does not understand this concept


Pages: 1 :: [one page]