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Archbot
W a r F o r g e d
0
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Posted - 2013.10.08 02:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is the first of a series of proposals/requests/suggestions I'll be doing. Partly taken from my old main, Synbot's 'Balancing DUST 514's Weapons: Assault Rifles' series, which was discontinued due to me switching mains. Anywho,
I believe that the skilltree really needs some improvement/change, as well as the bonuses these skills give. Some skills don't even have bonuses, which almost gives no reason to advancing past level 1.
Currently I've only done the Dropsuit Command Tree, due to lack of time I was unable to do every tree. I plan on proposing new trees as well, along with new skills. Here's the link.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1289NasIKlla5TCRXYId1KGHPqmWsKPXCNQ7PfpryjHw/edit?usp=sharing
If you like it, +1 and tell me what you think! If not, tell me why! Any constructive feedback is helpful.
Discuss! |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
260
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Posted - 2013.10.08 05:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
A few things that need correction
1) Your Racials on your light suits, the whole reason why the scouts speed was destroyed to near medium frame levels was because we were too fast. Your speed bonus on the lights would mean that scouts would have to go slower because we were anchored down because the other suits had some difficulty shooting us before
So they can't get a speed bonus
2) Caldari Scout should get precision decrease and not a duplicate of the scout skill, especially when it makes sense for Gallente to have that anyways. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
141
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Posted - 2013.10.08 06:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'd actually prefer to see it nested the other way around.
Racial > Frames > Specialisations
Some other comments: -As Oswald said there are some technical reasons for not letting scouts go too fast unfortunately. -I hate passive resistances (CCP doesn't like them either) just give them more HP. Say 3% resist to 4% HP. Then give Sentinal a more interesting bonus. I'm not sure what. Same with the Sentinel racial bonuses. -The Commando bonus is a little lame. Give them something more interesting. -Assaults: make them all racial weapon related - laser heat, projectile clips, hybrid damage, hybrid range/reload/something |
Jackof All-Trades
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
195
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Posted - 2013.10.08 09:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like the Frame > Specialisation > Racial approach. Gives new players more flexibility when choosing race and is more forgiving than the current system that just does not work. Not sure about all the bonuses so far, but they all look good to me... Don;t know why no one else seems to like it as much |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1400
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Posted - 2013.10.08 10:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Agree with Garth on Specialisation AFTER Race. I don't really mind whether frame or race precedes the other.
Why? Because there are only 4 races. Most likely there will only be 3 frame sizes. But specialisations can and should be constantly revised, reiterated, and new specialisations should be easily added. Put them at the end of the tree and hence when new specialisations are added, it's a simple matter of grabbing the specialisation skill because the base racial/frame skills are the foundation.
I don't really like the dropsuit command passive bonus because all suits get it, meaning flexibility across basic suits that widens the gap between new and older players. Instead, simply increase the base CPU/PG of all suits by the amount they would've increased with the passive bonus. Then, have the skill give something more interesting, maybe in future it will unlock customisable dropsuit paint schemes, etc. Passive bonuses shouldn't start there, imho.
Same with frame sizes. Simply skilling into them is a passive bonus in itself; giving them another bonus simply rounds off the specialisation of frames, reducing the weaknesses by amplifying their strengths. Without passive bonuses, those suits will be strong in their roles but much weaker in roles that another frame would specialise in.
Racial passive bonuses (assuming the progression of frame -> race -> specialisation), though, should be where the bonuses start rolling in. This will be based on the preferred weaponry of each race and their inherent defensive preferences.
Then specialisations should be where it starts getting interesting. Suits at this point should be no more powerful than racial or even basic frame suits OVERALL, but in specific points of combat. ie. a Minmatar Logistics suit with 10% hacking bonus per skill level, a passive hacking bonus on the suit, plus a passive reduction to fitting costs of hacking modules, at the expense of a reduced max CPU/PG and the removal of, say, the grenade and an equipment slot.
Specialisations give insane strengths are the cost of crippling weaknesses. Played right, they can be devastating, but the investment should be a risk and practise must be necessary to master the suit. Unlike current prototype suits, which are buy-and-win. |
Archbot
W a r F o r g e d
3
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Posted - 2013.10.08 22:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:A few things that need correction
1) Your Racials on your light suits, the whole reason why the scouts speed was destroyed to near medium frame levels was because we were too fast. Your speed bonus on the lights would mean that scouts would have to go slower because we were anchored down because the other suits had some difficulty shooting us before
So they can't get a speed bonus
2) Caldari Scout should get precision decrease and not a duplicate of the scout skill, especially when it makes sense for Gallente to have that anyways. I see your point. I'll see what I can adjust in the proposal.
Garth Mandra wrote:I'd actually prefer to see it nested the other way around.
Racial > Frames > Specialisations
Some other comments: -As Oswald said there are some technical reasons for not letting scouts go too fast unfortunately. -I hate passive resistances (CCP doesn't like them either) just give them more HP. Say 3% resist to 4% HP. Then give Sentinal a more interesting bonus. I'm not sure what. Same with the Sentinel racial bonuses. -The Commando bonus is a little lame. Give them something more interesting. -Assaults: make them all racial weapon related - laser heat, projectile clips, hybrid damage, hybrid range/reload/something Either way there will be arguments on which one is better. I based my tree on generalization, first you start off a the more general levels (heavy, medium, light) then you narrow yourself down to specifically what you want. The 'Racial - Frames - Specialization' approach is also a good way about going with this, and I'll see what I can adjust.
-I will adjust this. -For what reason, may I ask? Vehicles get a passive module for it, so I'm not sure how CCP doesn't like them. & I'll see what I can do. -I'll see what I can do, any suggestions would also be helpful -This I like, I'll adjust accordingly.
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Agree with Garth on Specialisation AFTER Race. I don't really mind whether frame or race precedes the other.
Why? Because there are only 4 races. Most likely there will only be 3 frame sizes. But specialisations can and should be constantly revised, reiterated, and new specialisations should be easily added. Put them at the end of the tree and hence when new specialisations are added, it's a simple matter of grabbing the specialisation skill because the base racial/frame skills are the foundation.
I don't really like the dropsuit command passive bonus because all suits get it, meaning flexibility across basic suits that widens the gap between new and older players. Instead, simply increase the base CPU/PG of all suits by the amount they would've increased with the passive bonus. Then, have the skill give something more interesting, maybe in future it will unlock customisable dropsuit paint schemes, etc. Passive bonuses shouldn't start there, imho.
Same with frame sizes. Simply skilling into them is a passive bonus in itself; giving them another bonus simply rounds off the specialisation of frames, reducing the weaknesses by amplifying their strengths. Without passive bonuses, those suits will be strong in their roles but much weaker in roles that another frame would specialise in.
Racial passive bonuses (assuming the progression of frame -> race -> specialisation), though, should be where the bonuses start rolling in. This will be based on the preferred weaponry of each race and their inherent defensive preferences.
Then specialisations should be where it starts getting interesting. Suits at this point should be no more powerful than racial or even basic frame suits OVERALL, but in specific points of combat. ie. a Minmatar Logistics suit with 10% hacking bonus per skill level, a passive hacking bonus on the suit, plus a passive reduction to fitting costs of hacking modules, at the expense of a reduced max CPU/PG and the removal of, say, the grenade and an equipment slot.
Specialisations give insane strengths are the cost of crippling weaknesses. Played right, they can be devastating, but the investment should be a risk and practise must be necessary to master the suit. Unlike current prototype suits, which are buy-and-win. I'll devise a new skill tree, and see if the majority will like it. But you do provide a good argument.
Regarding passive bonuses, It's currently the only way I can think of that can reward the player per every level. You shouldn't skill to lvl 3 from 1, when at lvl 3 all you get is the next tier. Lvl 2 yields no reward. If you do have any suggestions on how we can reward players with a bonus for each level, that'd be great and I'd be happy to include it into my proposal.
Again, good argument, and I'll be devising a new skill tree accordingly. Thank you for your input. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
147
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Posted - 2013.10.09 00:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
I couldn't find the dev post (it was quite a while ago...) but it was along the lines of opponents being unable to tell if they're against a heavy with zero resistance or 15%.
We can currently tell how much HP an enemy has. It's a bit clumsy but we can. As an aside I'd like to see the a marker of some kind on the HP bar every 100hp so we can get an idea of how much HP an enemy has at a glance.
If you add in resistance, be it a module or a skill or whatever, then it becomes much more difficult to gauge the threat level of an opponent.
This is why I prefer giving them more HP. This would also make reps take longer to do their job but hopefully that would encourage team work with people carrying rep tools and hospital hives. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
147
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 00:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
As for the race, specialisation, frame size stuff I like racial stuff coming first (I'd like something similar in the weapons tree too) because it lets you specialise into a particular races technology and overall play style.
You can also explain it by saying that the different races have different interfaces to their equipment or something. |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
205
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Posted - 2013.10.09 00:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
I only use medium suits I wish I could go all into medium and use less SP they cost wayyy too much idk if u did anything else but I wish the skill tree made it easier to go into other medium suits instead of spending millions to spec into all of them
as far a stats go didn't read it at all |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
371
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Posted - 2013.10.09 02:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Definitely prefer Racial > Frame > Specialization.
While Frame > Specialization > Racial might allow new players to play around with the race of their chosen specialization, it also means a bigger grind to branch out into different roles. With Racial > Frame > Specialization, a player could fairly easily reach a new frame/specialization (though it would be of one race). |
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Archbot
W a r F o r g e d
5
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Posted - 2013.10.09 23:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Will be updating this hopefully today.
Garth Mandra wrote:I couldn't find the dev post (it was quite a while ago...) but it was along the lines of opponents being unable to tell if they're against a heavy with zero resistance or 15%.
We can currently tell how much HP an enemy has. It's a bit clumsy but we can. As an aside I'd like to see the a marker of some kind on the HP bar every 100hp so we can get an idea of how much HP an enemy has at a glance.
If you add in resistance, be it a module or a skill or whatever, then it becomes much more difficult to gauge the threat level of an opponent.
This is why I prefer giving them more HP. This would also make reps take longer to do their job but hopefully that would encourage team work with people carrying rep tools and hospital hives.
As for the race, specialisation, frame size stuff I like racial stuff coming first (I'd like something similar in the weapons tree too) because it lets you specialise into a particular races technology and overall play style.
You can also explain it by saying that the different races have different interfaces to their equipment or something. You'll be able to see how resistant they are by looking at your efficiency rating. If you're in your optimal range (assuming 100%) and the heavy has 5% damage reduction, it'll show up as 95%. Before this couldn't work, now I believe so.
I'll change my proposal accordingly, as I stated previously. Though I'd like having a wider description of each race for the new-comers so they know what they're speccing into.
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Archbot
W a r F o r g e d
6
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Posted - 2013.10.10 02:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Proposed a new skill tree. I haven't got to skills yet, so please excuse the false information on a few of them.
Number on the left represents the skill level requirement of the previous skill. Number on the right represents the total number of skill levels needed to unlock the skill. |
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