DUST Search - Rebalance PG/CPU ussage of weapons

Draco Cerberus wrote:

Have any of you tried skilling the appropriate weapon optimization skill or gotten you engineering and electronics skills up? I don't seem to have any issues fitting weapons/dl/nh/scanners/damps/armor/extenders or anything else. Normally fitting an item require a mix of skills not just skill in the weapon. A standard militia suit has far less pg/cpu than an advanced and a proto will have even more pg/cpu that the advanced suits as well. If you are fitting a suit you should consider it's meta level then fit gear of the same level or lower to it as a general rule.

As for the best weapon having the easiest fit costs, that is simply not true. All weapons are tactically good at certain things. There is no reason to be complaining that the AR has the lowest fit cost when it is also the lowest damage out of all the primary weapons. This it is OP because everyone uses it? It the the weapon everyone starts with, of course everyone has skilled it so they use it for a cheap and easy weapon. Other weapons work better and there is no reason to believe it is OP.

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The-Errorist Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 256	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:55:00 - [1] - Quote STD CPU/PG (Total) AR: 23/3 (26) SCR: 29/11 (40) MD: 36/5 (41) LR: 53/3 (56) It seems a little ridiculous how little resources an AR take up compared to other light weapons. CPU/PG usage of items don't really seem to make sense, like for example, a blaster hybrid weapon taking mostly CPU instead of PG. CCP, please take a look and rebalanced the fitting costs of weapons.
deepfried salad gilliam Sanguine Knights 23	Posted - 2013.10.06 18:59:00 - [2] - Quote I switched to an ar ftm because I can't fit an scr and well the ar does just as good at range
The-Errorist Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 256	Posted - 2013.10.06 19:11:00 - [3] - Quote This is also discourages weapon variety in Dust because an AR is easier to fit than other weapons.
Melchiah ARANeAE The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 128	Posted - 2013.10.06 20:35:00 - [4] - Quote Don't forget the Plasma Cannon and its obscene 71 CPU usage at standard. I know they attempted to balance it with 0 PG, but it's still way too much CPU to fit easily onto anything except a Gallente assault whose rather bland bonus is a reduction to hybrid weapon CPU/PG costs.
Borne Velvalor BLACK-DRAGON-SOCIETY 3	Posted - 2013.10.06 21:28:00 - [5] - Quote I'd like to know why weapons consume CPU to begin with. I wasn't aware grenade launchers weren't produced until computer chips could be weaved into soldiers' uniforms. Really, though, the CPU and PG don't need to make sense. They just need to be balanced. Which they are not. The worst weapons cost the most and the best weapons cost the least. Why use a support weapon as a Logibro when you can use an Assault Rifle like everyone else and upgrade your Shield Extenders or Equipment with the spare CPU/PG?
zibathy numbertwo Nox Aeterna Security 192	Posted - 2013.10.06 23:43:00 - [6] - Quote I think the Mass Driver should use more PG and less CPU. AR should use more PG as well (more CPU doesn't make sense at all for a firearm...) LR makes sense but looks like its CPU costs are a bit obscene...
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1076	Posted - 2013.10.07 00:40:00 - [7] - Quote zibathy numbertwo wrote: AR should use more PG as well (more CPU doesn't make sense at all for a firearm...) Well, that's it. Its a plasma rifle. It uses electromagnetic fields to contain superheated plasma as it heads towards target. So, the computer needs to regulate the amount of plasma put into each shot, and to make sure the magnetic fields are guiding to plasma the correct direction. Hence the need for CPU.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 868	Posted - 2013.10.07 00:56:00 - [8] - Quote A reasonable way to balance the rifle like weapons would be to have them all cost the same in terms of total pg+cpu costs but with several "flavors" based upon weapon type. Laser based weapons should have the highest pg costs but the lowest cpu costs. Battle rifles should have the highest cpu costs but the lowest pg cost, and blasters (the current ar) should have the most equal pg/cpu cost distribution. I don't disagree that the AR's fitting should be more in line with the other light weapons, just that the costs should be more specialized to fit more with the races using them.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6444	Posted - 2013.10.07 00:59:00 - [9] - Quote These numbers are damn ridiculous, why is the AR so easy to fit compared to these other light weapons?
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 870	Posted - 2013.10.07 03:52:00 - [10] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: These numbers are damn ridiculous, why is the AR so easy to fit compared to these other light weapons? This really is a good question since the AR is the most effective in the bunch.

low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 633	Posted - 2013.10.07 04:16:00 - [11] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: STD CPU/PG AR: 23/3 SCR: 29/11 MD: 36/5 LR: 53/3 It seems a little ridiculous how little resources an AR take up compared to other light weapons. CPU/PG usage of items don't really seem to make sense, like for example, a blaster hybrid weapon taking mostly CPU instead of PG. CCP, please take a look and rebalanced the fitting costs of weapons. yeah, we've all said this. the best weapon cannot have the easiest fitting costs. it makes for a boring lineup in game.
Draco Cerberus Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 365	Posted - 2013.10.07 05:51:00 - [12] - Quote Have any of you tried skilling the appropriate weapon optimization skill or gotten you engineering and electronics skills up? I don't seem to have any issues fitting weapons/dl/nh/scanners/damps/armor/extenders or anything else. Normally fitting an item require a mix of skills not just skill in the weapon. A standard militia suit has far less pg/cpu than an advanced and a proto will have even more pg/cpu that the advanced suits as well. If you are fitting a suit you should consider it's meta level then fit gear of the same level or lower to it as a general rule. As for the best weapon having the easiest fit costs, that is simply not true. All weapons are tactically good at certain things. There is no reason to be complaining that the AR has the lowest fit cost when it is also the lowest damage out of all the primary weapons. This it is OP because everyone uses it? It the the weapon everyone starts with, of course everyone has skilled it so they use it for a cheap and easy weapon. Other weapons work better and there is no reason to believe it is OP.
Medic 1879 Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 1072	Posted - 2013.10.07 09:28:00 - [13] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Have any of you tried skilling the appropriate weapon optimization skill or gotten you engineering and electronics skills up? I don't seem to have any issues fitting weapons/dl/nh/scanners/damps/armor/extenders or anything else. Normally fitting an item require a mix of skills not just skill in the weapon. A standard militia suit has far less pg/cpu than an advanced and a proto will have even more pg/cpu that the advanced suits as well. If you are fitting a suit you should consider it's meta level then fit gear of the same level or lower to it as a general rule. As for the best weapon having the easiest fit costs, that is simply not true. All weapons are tactically good at certain things. There is no reason to be complaining that the AR has the lowest fit cost when it is also the lowest damage out of all the primary weapons. This it is OP because everyone uses it? It the the weapon everyone starts with, of course everyone has skilled it so they use it for a cheap and easy weapon. Other weapons work better and there is no reason to believe it is OP. AR has lowest damage? thats a new one I am sure I read a thread with some maths proving the AR has one of the highest DPS's in the game.
Talos Alomar Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1632	Posted - 2013.10.07 09:49:00 - [14] - Quote I've been saying for a while that it's a bit ridiculous that the AR gives you such versatility for such a low cpu/pg cost. compare it to the shotgun - it's both harder to fit and harder to use. The AR can more easily be tossed onto a fit with great tank and damage with no sacrifices.
Cosgar ParagonX 5676	Posted - 2013.10.07 11:54:00 - [15] - Quote Talos Alomar wrote: I've been saying for a while that it's a bit ridiculous that the AR gives you such versatility for such a low cpu/pg cost. compare it to the shotgun - it's both harder to fit and harder to use. The AR can more easily be tossed onto a fit with great tank and damage with no sacrifices. That's because the AR was supposed to be that middle of the road generalist weapon. Look at how that worked out.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 2672	Posted - 2013.10.07 13:33:00 - [16] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: Have any of you tried skilling the appropriate weapon optimization skill or gotten you engineering and electronics skills up? I don't seem to have any issues fitting weapons/dl/nh/scanners/damps/armor/extenders or anything else. Normally fitting an item require a mix of skills not just skill in the weapon. A standard militia suit has far less pg/cpu than an advanced and a proto will have even more pg/cpu that the advanced suits as well. If you are fitting a suit you should consider it's meta level then fit gear of the same level or lower to it as a general rule. As for the best weapon having the easiest fit costs, that is simply not true. All weapons are tactically good at certain things. There is no reason to be complaining that the AR has the lowest fit cost when it is also the lowest damage out of all the primary weapons. This it is OP because everyone uses it? It the the weapon everyone starts with, of course everyone has skilled it so they use it for a cheap and easy weapon. Other weapons work better and there is no reason to believe it is OP. DPS-wise, it out-damages most weapons in the game. The optimization skills aren't the best bang for the buck. A scrambler Rifle user could spend 2 million SP to get 5 pg knocked off the reqs of an Imperial Rifle (and that's 2 million specific to Scramblers). The Duvolle AR would still be 2 PG cheaper even after the 2 million SP. I don't know that the CPU/PG need to be changed on all the weapons, but if they're not going to do that (or adjust fitting skills) they might want to consider making the weapons that are harder to fit "better" or the ones that are easier to fit "worse". Really, I'd be happy if they removed the 10% damage bonus from all weapons that they added in uprising. It would be a great start.
Cosgar ParagonX 5683	Posted - 2013.10.07 14:18:00 - [17] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Really, I'd be happy if they removed the 10% damage bonus from all weapons that they added in uprising. It would be a great start. This needs to happen for the sake of the game's core mechanics. Character building and customization doesn't mesh well with the unintended fart in the wind TTK we have right now.
Kelrie Nae'bre not in a corporation 165	Posted - 2013.10.07 20:19:00 - [18] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Zeylon Rho wrote: Really, I'd be happy if they removed the 10% damage bonus from all weapons that they added in uprising. It would be a great start. This needs to happen for the sake of the game's core mechanics. Character building and customization doesn't mesh well with the unintended fart in the wind TTK we have right now. Very much this.
Azri Sarum BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder. 91	Posted - 2013.10.08 20:47:00 - [19] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: STD CPU/PG AR: 23/3 SCR: 29/11 MD: 36/5 LR: 53/3 It seems a little ridiculous how little resources an AR take up compared to other light weapons. CPU/PG usage of items don't really seem to make sense, like for example, a blaster hybrid weapon taking mostly CPU instead of PG. CCP, please take a look and rebalanced the fitting costs of weapons. So i wanted to get an idea of the total fitting cost for each of those weapons, just to make comparisons easier. I first started by figuring out a multiplier to make CPU and PG equal. By looking at the standard dropsuits each one has 5x more CPU than PG. That seems like a workable multiplier. Using this, i created a 'fitting cost' for each of those weapons. cost = CPU + 5*PG. You get the following AR: 38 SCR: 84 MD: 61 LR: 68 And that more or less backs up our instincts. The AR is stupidly easy to fit, 60% easier than the next lowest (MD) and 221% easier than the SRC. I was not really expecting such a wide range of costs, and it really shows how poorly balanced the weapons are. While some minor fluctuations to the scores are probably fine, they really need to be balanced within +- 20% of some baseline cost. If we don't get some form of balance, everything is thrown out of whack not by the weapon itself, but the fitting allowed by its cost.


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