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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1081
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Posted - 2013.10.05 05:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Unlike Mr. Tosch here, I AM a dedicated Logi (Also a pilot, Assault, Scout, and Heavy! :D), and I say yay to this.
Another problem is the stupid freaking Medic fit. If this doesn't happen once per match, it's a good day:
-Get killed by AR, and then guy who killed you gets sniped.
-Triage Unit 5 meters away and no enemies nearby.
-Triage Unit 1 meter away and still no enemies.
-Turns out he was just getting over your body so he could get to the supply depot on the other side of the room.
-Triage Unit within 0 meters.
-Looks like he was just leaving the room.
90% of Gallente/Minmatar blueberries run that suit because it has an SMG on it, and we all know it. I'd like it if maybe CCP switched out the injector for a rep tool? Honestly, they're easier to use than a Nanite Injector, and people don't feel like cutting you if you don't rez them. :D |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1084
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 03:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Sorry have to edit, and there you go, correct races inserted.  No need to thank me.
1) I fixed your grammar in return. :)
2) I am a Gallente, I know the Medic fit has an SMG, and I have no idea why the Minmatar WOULDN'T have an SMG (What having inventing it and all). Maybe it's all races? Hm.
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1084
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 03:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:My issue isn't with the logis capability to logi, it's that, due to the fact that logis are given more slots, they are basically mega assaults.
While I'm not completely disagreeing here, they definitely CAN act as Assaults, I just wanted to point out some things:
Logistics are meant to be very combat efficient. Even in EVE, the ships that have more Mid Slots (Equipment), also have more Highs and Lows. With less guns, of course.
They're meant to be the longest-lasting survivor of a squad. After a firefight, once the bodies are piled up, a good Logistics is supposed to survive long enough to help people recover from the aftermath. The worst Logistics, for example, hide behind a heavy and rep it, soaking up Guardian points and Triage points.
Now I'm not going to say that I haven't done that once in a while, but 9/10 times (And I've been "clean" for over a month), it's for BSoTT testing.
However, a good Logistics, like I said, builds up survivability instead of tank and damage. I fit Damage Mods only because I don't have Armor Hardeners for my High Slots (Or something armor-based for Highs. Pretty please, CCP?). Gallente Logis, using your example, should be fitting Armor Repairs and at most 2 Complex Armor Plates. If people walk faster than you, it's hard to rep them.
Right, I'm done. I'm sorry. TL;DR, only crappy Logis go Assault Logi. Noting that Gallente and Amarrians focus more on the combat-efficient part of the spectrum. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1087
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Posted - 2013.10.10 13:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:You do realize taht we are given those slots for cpu and pg upgrades right?
Looking at the base CPU/PG stats, we already have more than enough. Like I said, we're supposed to increase survivability. At higher levels, you may think we need to put on some CPU/PG upgrades, but the truth is that we're supposed to be levelling up Core Upgrades AND Engineering/Electronics along with our suit level, so we can fit prototype equipment and weapons. I see many many MANY Proto-Logis running Duvolle ARs, pulling out their Core Repair Tool to heal 2 people at once and then throwing a Core Locus Grenade at me.
Everyone who runs Prototype C-Logi with a Duvolle, Core Locus Grenades, all Proto Equipment and Complex Shield Extenders definitely deserves every death they get. I mean it. Every single one.
EDIT - After reading the rest of your post, I realize that it looks like you run a long-range weapon. ARs do more damage in CQC (Being Gallente Weapons and all...). You can also fit Shotguns to OHK someone, or maybe an SMG. Logistics are just as balanced when it comes to CQC as say, an Assault.
I run a Standard AR with 2 Damage Mods (Armor Tanker, nothing for those Highs), Proficiency 3, and Rapid Reload 3. When I'm running Logistics I usually win engagements because I stack 3 Enhanced Armor Plates. Bringing my eHP to over 600. It's all about surviving long enough to heal your allies, or if you're focused more on Combat (Like the Gallente and Amarr Logis), to kill the other guy. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1087
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Yes, but do you fit CPU and PG upgrades?
Nope. My ADV Gallente Logistics fitting is as follows, and I only have 3 level in Core Upgrades, 2 in Electronics, and 2 in Engineering:
1x Gallente G/1-Series Logistics Dropsuit
1x GEK-38 Assault Rifle
1x BDR-9 Repair Tool
1x KIN-12 Nanite Injector
1x K-2 Nanohive
3x Enhanced Armor Plates
2x Basic Damage Mods
I get a K/D of over 2.00 every match I use it, landing more than 12 kills. Just because of the survivability that I keep preaching about.
"It's not designed to do this, so why is it permitted": Like I've said many times before, and I'll say many times after this, they're supposed to kill a lot. CCP has always made Logistics a combat-efficient class. In EVE, 10+ years of Logistic Ships that have killed and maimed and healed. It won't change. But I know in some games, the Support is near-worthless, so I could understand why you think it should be. But we actually pay for our deaths here, and a death means something bigger than "God damnit now I need to respawn!", it means "Holy hell, how will I pay this off?". So it's important that a Logistics make a good offensive class.
And about the part where you said it's like a doctor being a better policeman than a policeman: All Combat Medics are supposed to live up to their name. They aren't just doctors, they're also soldiers. For over 10 years, CCP's Logistics Role has been helpful when it comes to killing AND healing, and they won't change that because a small group of people from a game that's been released for AT MOST 7 months say that the Logistics should die more than they should.
I say the Logistics is balanced, and not because I use it. We don't die a lot, and we kill alot, along with bringing in the WP via supporting our teammates. The drawback? Our fits usually cost the most. One weapon isn't a big drawback, if you can survive long enough to reload it, but we need to keep our earning positive after paying for those extra modules and extra equipment slots. Thankfully, a good Logistics won't die more than 5-6 times per match. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1087
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 16:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
BOOM Insta-Text-Wall. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1087
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 18:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:Wow the Great Wall of texts lol
90% of Text Walls are Ghost-Manufactured.
You can buy your TextWall(TM) License today, for the low price of 100 million ISK!
Seriously though, most of the text walls in this thread are by me because people think that the Logi should be useless in combat. :( |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1091
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Posted - 2013.10.11 13:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:the reason assault get less WP is because they decided to not play as a team and be a selfish self sufficient KDR *****
The reason Assaults get less WP is because they aren't the ones plopping down Hives, Reps, and Revives. The Assault does the bulk of the fighting, and we keep them alive to do so.
And as for Meeko Fent, I can see what you mean, and I'l trying to say that we're SUPPOSED to tank all out. C-Logis are supposed to stack a load of shield extenders, regulators, etc. G-Logis are supposed to stack armor plates, damage mods, etc. Now, I'm not saying that this is how it should be for all playstyles, but high survivability definitely is required for Logistics. If you think they should be going on-par with Assaults, then I can definitely see why you think that, and I almost agree. They don't need a nerf as much as they need a slight tweaking. I can't think of anything off of the top of my head, but I know that in some eyes, we're severely OP.
I'm just trying to point out that we're not OP, we're doing our job. Like the Specialist or Logistics in most other games, we have the most health and the most utility. I think maybe they should reduce some slot counts though, absolutely. Primarily the C-Logi. The G-Logi has 5 lows and 3 highs, while the C-Logi has 5 highs and 4 lows. My only suggestion is that we balance that out by reducing the low cound of C-Logis by one.
Other than that, I'd say we're fine. I'd say yes to a buff for Assaults, or maybe Assault-Specific modules that decrease movement speed for more health/damage/etc. Or vice versa. But in my opinion, Logistics are fine. If anything, the Assault is a tad under-powered until PRO level. I use the G-Assault G-1, and I may as well be using the Advanced Basic Frame. Although I suppose part of that is the lack of a good bonus for the G-Assault... |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1091
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 13:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:I apologize for the Wall of text, however I won't tldr this.
Too much stuff to go over
Also, I'm pretty sure I copyrighted TextWalls(TM)... You'll be seeing my lawyer. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1094
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Posted - 2013.10.13 02:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:I understand that, however I fail to see as having more HP then the assaults as balanced.
If they had similar potential HP values, I'd shut up
To have the Gallente Logistics have the same POTENTIAL eHP as an Assault, we would need negative armor. Which is not that great. Plus, I'd like to point out that we're slowing than Assaults. Not by much, but note that the Assault isn't much slower than a Scout, and it has loads more HP.
If you wanted Logistics to have a little bit less armor, I could see that, but it'd also need a speed buff, because having 80-something armor and being slower than an Assault is kind of awkward. And I'm pretty sure being the glass cannon is the Scouts job.
Like I said, maybe buff the Assaults? I'd also like to point out that the Basic Frames have the same HP as an Assault. I COULD be using an Advanced Basic instead of a Standard Assault, because of the slot count difference. At the cost of a rather small bonus (Until you skill further), that's a pretty good deal. I don't even play Assault (I would if I had a Gallente sidearm. Pretty please, CCP? :D), and I think they need maybe an HP bonus. Small one, but enough to make a difference. |
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Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1113
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Posted - 2013.10.14 22:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
To the guy above... I just wanted to point this out.
Using the Gallente as an example, you can't get the Gallente Assault to more than a Gallente Logistics. Do the math if you'd like, but you can't make a Proto-Assault more Tanky than a Proto-Logi. There's a reason we have more slots.
I'll get math to you in a bit. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1114
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Right, right. I could see why you think they are OP. But really, if you play it for a while, and hard-core it up, spec into advanced Logi, you'll see that we're balanced. Because even with that extra health, we CAN die just as quick. But in 1v1, it's still balanced because they have a sidearm to go to, and we have more tank. |
Artificer Ghost
Bojo's School of the Trades
1114
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ferindar wrote: I'll rez ya to use ya as a human shield.
Just saw this. Funny thing, I do the exact opposite. If I'm rezzing someone that just got sniped, I turn my back towards where I think the sniper is. 99% of the time, someone tries to lay a pot-shot in my back when I do so. It never works. |
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