DUST Search - Petition to keep the Assault Dropship in during vehicle balancing.

DUST Fiend wrote:

Aero Yassavi wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

I kind of hope they remove the extra passengers from assault dropships, so it's just the pilot and his gunners. Logi ships already had basically no purpose as they were, the ADS just made that more obvious by acting as an even better troop transport

Ugh

It's why I think the ADS shouldn't even have a dropship base model, but a model all its own, one that clearly has no space for anyone other than the pilot and his gunners.

That said, I feel for you guys, since ADS is an entirely different playstyle than standard ships.

Sorry, but respectfully disagree. If you make the ADS just the pilot and it's gunners, and then change the model to something else, you basically have the "ADS vs Gunship" argument which I discussed in the third paragraph. You say it negates the other dropships, but the other dropships can carry 50% more passengers which is a pretty big advantage especially as we start to see battle sizes increase in the future.

You could be right, but as is there's basically nothing a logi ship can do that an ADS can't do better. Hell, the MCRU is a negative in most matches because blueberries, and you can't really take a logi ship out in a real PC match for any length of time.

I don't feel that the ADS is a gunship because I see gunships as large vehicles. If anything, I see what the ADS wants to be as a light vehicle, fast and nimble with just enough firepower to bring the hurt.

::shrugs::

I just feel bad for my fellow pilots for having to endure even more crap. At least the stats on the new ships are BOSS, so that's a plus.


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Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2552	Posted - 2013.10.04 15:53:00 - [1] - Quote Yes, I am aware that CCP said they are looking to re-introduce vehicle roles back after time, however CCP also stated the only reason they're giving us this information this early is so that they can act on feedback. Well, here's your feedback! The assault dropship is a very important vehicle in terms of the overall vehicle-to-vehicle balance, especially when considering the balance between and HAV and ADS. It fills roles that the normal dropships simply can't, and that role is huge. The assault dropship is much, much more than a simple variant of a base variant. I mean, it's like saying "In order to balance dropsuits, we are going to remove all roles so we can focus on the base variants" and as a result removing the logistics dropsuits, which I believe we can all agree would be a very bad idea. Also in terms of this "Assault dropships are just a poor implementation of gunships" argument, that is not the case at all! Should CCP ever add in gunships, I can't imagine they will be able to carry 4 passengers. With this added ability of the ADS, it allows it to sacrifice some firepower and mobility that perhaps a gunship would have in exchange for transporting a nicely sized squad from base to base while providing them aerial support, so yeah. Removing enforcers during this initial re-balancing stage makes sense, removing scout LAVs does to, and to an extent even logistics LAVs and dropships (since they were never really used for logistics anyways), but removing the ADS for the sake of reducing "noise" for balancing makes no sense! Please CCP, reconsider this.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2552	Posted - 2013.10.04 16:00:00 - [2] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I kind of hope they remove the extra passengers from assault dropships, so it's just the pilot and his gunners. Logi ships already had basically no purpose as they were, the ADS just made that more obvious by acting as an even better troop transport It's why I think the ADS shouldn't even have a dropship base model, but a model all its own, one that clearly has no space for anyone other than the pilot and his gunners. That said, I feel for you guys, since ADS is an entirely different playstyle than standard ships. Sorry, but respectfully disagree. If you make the ADS just the pilot and it's gunners, and then change the model to something else, you basically have the "ADS vs Gunship" argument which I discussed in the third paragraph. You say it negates the other dropships, but the other dropships can carry 50% more passengers which is a pretty big advantage especially as we start to see battle sizes increase in the future.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2552	Posted - 2013.10.04 16:02:00 - [3] - Quote pegasis prime wrote: As much as I do like tge ads I hope its removal will path the way for proper gunships as it appeard to be originally a place holder for them. Again, see third paragraph in regards to the gunship argument. I swear, it's like people read the title and skip the actual content of the message.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2553	Posted - 2013.10.04 16:09:00 - [4] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I kind of hope they remove the extra passengers from assault dropships, so it's just the pilot and his gunners. Logi ships already had basically no purpose as they were, the ADS just made that more obvious by acting as an even better troop transport It's why I think the ADS shouldn't even have a dropship base model, but a model all its own, one that clearly has no space for anyone other than the pilot and his gunners. That said, I feel for you guys, since ADS is an entirely different playstyle than standard ships. Sorry, but respectfully disagree. If you make the ADS just the pilot and it's gunners, and then change the model to something else, you basically have the "ADS vs Gunship" argument which I discussed in the third paragraph. You say it negates the other dropships, but the other dropships can carry 50% more passengers which is a pretty big advantage especially as we start to see battle sizes increase in the future. You could be right, but as is there's basically nothing a logi ship can do that an ADS can't do better. Hell, the MCRU is a negative in most matches because blueberries, and you can't really take a logi ship out in a real PC match for any length of time. I don't feel that the ADS is a gunship because I see gunships as large vehicles. If anything, I see what the ADS wants to be as a light vehicle, fast and nimble with just enough firepower to bring the hurt. ::shrugs:: I just feel bad for my fellow pilots for having to endure even more crap. At least the stats on the new ships are BOSS, so that's a plus. Well keep in mind when I say gunship I am referring to a light, fast, and nimble ship with firepower. Call it what you want, but the point stands. And I do agree that the logistics dropships are not really feasible right now, but that is more because they are like trying to fly a brick. I mean, for a medium aircraft with less HP than a light assault vehicle, they are remarkably slow. That has nothing to do with the added benefits of a mobile CRU and 6 passenger slots. I can see the argument of that mobile CRU being a negative when not running with an organized team, but that can easily be solved by adding a "force eject" button. Also the stats on the new dropships are boss? When I looked at it, LIGHT assault vehicles still have more HP than MEDIUM aircrafts in the new vehicle changes, so I'm going to have to disagree with that as well.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2554	Posted - 2013.10.04 17:01:00 - [5] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Also the stats on the new dropships are boss? When I looked at it, LIGHT assault vehicles still have more HP than MEDIUM aircrafts in the new vehicle changes, so I'm going to have to disagree with that as well. We certainly see Gunships as two different things. When I think gunship, I think big ass, slow ass flying brick bristling with guns. This is not the point. What I call a gunship perhaps you call a fighter jet or something. So just go through my OP and everytime you see the word "gunship" replace it with "fighter jet" and see if you agree or not with my stance.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2561	Posted - 2013.10.04 19:04:00 - [6] - Quote gbghg wrote: OP your argument contains a flaw, how can you argue for the ADS to remain when you say that it's fine for all the other variants to be removed, that just doesn't make sense, this is very much an all or nothing situation. By removing everything but the base models they reduce the balancing work they have to do, they can focus on balancing the core vehicles and modules first and then they can expand outwards into the existing variants, rather than do a half assed job of every existing vehicle. As for the whole ADS aren't gunships discussion, they're not, they're what I imagine will end up bridging the gap if gunships are ever actually introduced, for the moment it is basically a filler that we have grown rather attached to. Besides a can see one good thing coming of their removal, it will remind every dropship pilot that they are first and foremost a transport aircraft, beyond everything else, the front and side turrets, the squishing, our main role is to move troops from point a to point b as quickly and safely as possible, some people could do with the reminder. When was the last time you saw an enforcer? Or for that matter, when was the last time you saw a scout LAV? Ok, now when was the last time you saw a logistics vehicle besides a LLAV murder taxi? Yet you see ADS all the time. That tells you something about how fundamental they are.