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Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
607
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Posted - 2013.10.04 12:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since when does Caldari in EVE have soft shields and relies on fast attacks to survive? That's clearly Minmatar. Caldari vehicles should have more shield than they are giving them with the new changes. Their shield should rival Gallente's, if not Amarr's armor when Amarr vehicles are introduced.
I get the whole shield vs armor thing CCP wants to do, but it's been too generalized. Amarr and Caldari should actually be the ones that can "slug it out," while Minmatar is soft but relies on speed. Gallente armor is not as good as the Amarr, but they make up for it in speed and raw DPS in close range.
Based on what CCP is doing right now, it seems as if they will have to make another vehicle balcnce pass once Amarr and Minmatar vehicles are introduced. And that's not effecient. |
Operative 1171 Aajli
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
486
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Posted - 2013.10.04 12:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Since when does Caldari in EVE have soft shields and relies on fast attacks to survive? That's clearly Minmatar. Caldari vehicles should have more shield than they are giving them with the new changes. Their shield should rival Gallente's, if not Amarr's armor when Amarr vehicles are introduced.
I get the whole shield vs armor thing CCP wants to do, but it's been too generalized. Amarr and Caldari should actually be the ones that can "slug it out," while Minmatar is soft but relies on speed. Gallente armor is not as good as the Amarr, but they make up for it in speed and raw DPS in close range.
Based on what CCP is doing right now, it seems as if they will have to make another vehicle balcnce pass once Amarr and Minmatar vehicles are introduced. And that's not effecient.
As I stated in another post, Caldari are long range fighters and this idea from EVE doesn't translate very well to ground warfare, esp. with the relatively small space the maps present. Even the large maps aren't large enough to prevent CQ from being the standard.
Also, Caldari are supposed to be about ewar and use ECM mods to jam enemy scanners and weapons.
Shields don't need a bigger buff. We need ewar jammer mods to complement the shield vehicles/suits like the ships in EVE. |
Mossellia Delt
Militaires Sans Jeux
478
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Posted - 2013.10.04 12:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Most likelly they'll do the same thing they do with dropsuits; ie; butcher the lore and make it
Caldari - as is
Gallanette - armour tank
Minmatar - crappy
Amaar - duel tankers |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
618
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Caldari soft shields? are we playing the same game? |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1878
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Caldari soft shields? are we playing the same game?
He is talking HAV's, I think? Because Caldari dropsuit shields are pretty butch. |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
607
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 13:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
@operative: that doesn't mean that CCP can ignore tanking lore. Also, they can actually use railguns in these maps appropriately. Maybe not all, but for a lot of them. Railgun sniping from mountains is a valid technique. But the point of this thread is about defensive, not offensive abilities.
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Caldari soft shields? are we playing the same game? He is talking HAV's, I think? Because Caldari dropsuit shields are pretty butch.
Yes, I'll make that more clear. |
Torneido Achura
Suicidal Business Inc.
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 13:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dual tank is more effective for long term engagements and AR are chewing through shields, so..
Also, the whole point of tank shields itGÇÖs going to be for spec ops Caldari and Minm scouts (cuz of the hit and run philosophy) 
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Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
342
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 13:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
+100 ccp makes no sense |
Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
608
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Torneido Achura wrote:Dual tank is more effective for long term engagements and AR are chewing through shields, so.. Also, the whole point of tank shields itGÇÖs going to be for spec ops Caldari and Minm scouts (cuz of the hit and run philosophy)
Edit: I see that you have spoken with an infantry perspective. But my response still sits
The problem about generalizing shield and armor like this is that it makes it problematic for introducing the Amarr and Minmatar variants. All four races should be different, but right now, what will make Minmatar more different than Caldari? What will make Amarr more different than Gallente? Other than turrets, obviously.
These changes will be on the spot if there were only two races, but there are four races to consider. |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
618
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 13:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:@operative: that doesn't mean that CCP can ignore tanking lore. Also, they can actually use railguns in these maps appropriately. Maybe not all, but for a lot of them. Railgun sniping from mountains is a valid technique. But the point of this thread is about defensive, not offensive abilities. Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Caldari soft shields? are we playing the same game? He is talking HAV's, I think? Because Caldari dropsuit shields are pretty butch. Yes, I'll make that more clear.
"skirmishing" in warfare is just harassing enemies while negating the retaliation from your target, so in fact shooting from long range is also skirmishing 
if it is working as intended is a different story though. I also remember the devs saying that the dropsuits do not follow the same warfare doctrine as they have in Eve. |
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Torneido Achura
Suicidal Business Inc.
47
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Posted - 2013.10.04 13:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
I get your point Harpy, but the problem resides in a game feature (cuz if you notice armor is the new shields  funny right?)
The difference between races comes in slots configuration and quantity; cuz I can shield tank but prefer to armor or dual tank cuz itGÇÖs more effective for a lot of purposes, while shield tank is only useful on a handful of situations.
Also all my points can translate to vehicles (as stated by some shield tanks I've encounter that resist proto swarms and run really fast), and should be more fitting in the future updates.
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Harpyja
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
608
|
Posted - 2013.10.04 14:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
@Jack: I get that. What I'm trying to convey though is that Caldari can take a beating as well, which means that they don't solely rely on skirmish warfare and long range weaponry. Minmatar are the true skirmishers as they fly fast around their targets without giving their targets much of a chance to fight back.
Also, keep in mind that skirmishers are light units that go ahead first to perform a quick attack before retreating behind the main line. And Minmatar are pretty much this: light, fast, and attack quickly. Caldari are slow and heavy. |
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