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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2425
   |
Posted - 2013.10.02 03:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
The last thread was getting a bit clustered up and felt like this deserved it's own thread. So here we go.
What is the FW control situation?
Minmatar and Gallente control 99% of the districts for now a full month, for particularly the Minmatar this is against several records of multiple squads organizing to make massive pushes for Amarr FW, in which they have won well over 90% of all battles. So something is up, which CCP FoxFour stated to be an issue of essentially the Amarr and Caldari in too deep a hole to dig themselves out of.
What CCP needs to do to fix this FW control situation
1. Hypothetically, let's say FW starts with each team controlling a perfect 50/50 of districts. At this point, the amount of defense and attack contracts a faction gets are equal. As one team begins to gain more and more districts, the amount of attack contracts is reduced and defense contracts go up. Either set this up by some exponential equation based directly on percent of contracts owned, or even introduce a new attribute relating to the success of defense contracts. What I mean by this is basically say, "If faction A owns X percent of districts, then they must win Y amount of defense contracts before they get an attack contract." This would add greater significance on some battles, which is awesome, as well as requiring a significant effort for one side to gain complete control which is how it should be.
2. Lock districts for a certain amount of time when they flip sides. When you gain control of a district, it should not be under attack literally one minute later. Come on CCP, use your head. There are plenty of districts to choose from so this shouldn't result in a situation where all districts are lost, but even then you could write in some fail safe to open up districts that have been locked the longest should the situation arise.
3. Allow Dust players to choose where we fight so we can actually have some sense of control. Heck, at this point I'd settle with at least allowing us to pick which region we want to fight in and proceed as usual. Actually, would would be the perfect system is have us choose where we want to fight and every subset of that is included. So for example, I could say I want to fight on Raa X District 1, but would have to wait a long time to find something obviously. I could choose to instead limit my queue to anything on Raa X, or to the Raa system, or even further to the Semou constellation, Devoid region, or Amarr in general. Whatever I choose, it searches for all subsets. BAM! I would love you for this.
4. Change the battle outcomes so it is not winner takes all. Make it a little more like PC where it takes multiple battles to flip a district. Something you could do to avoid a lot of logistical stuff (which I love logistical stuff, but for the sake of argument) is have the battles on a district go through the game modes. First attack is ambush, if you win you then move on the ambush oms, if you win then you go on the skirmish (or if you lose, back to ambush), if you win again you go onto Domination (or if you lose, back to Ambush OMS), and if you win that then you flip the district (or if you lose, back to Skirmish). Players from the previous battles will be given priority if they want to continue to the next battle, and then it fills in the rest from those searching.
TL:DR
Read |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2483
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 03:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Supported since I kind of helped refine the ideas here..... |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
715
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 04:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Insta-support |
DildoMcnutz
Science For Death
The Shadow Eclipse
230
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 04:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like 4, I don't wanna just play skirmish all the time. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2427
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 05:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Supported since I kind of helped refine the ideas here.....
I feel like option 1 is the best and most elegant situation for FW at the moment, it allows constant generation of contracts but at the same time limits the amount of "meaningful battles" to whichever side is doing well or doing poorly.
The premise of FW is to fight back and forth over the systems, one side only winning when they put in a significant amount of effort, or one side being able to claw back a series of system with a very focused effort.
Basically the purpose of this is to allow of the pendulmn swings of EVE side FW in dust, because as it stands now the sheer number of offensive contracts the Minmatar generate over the limited number of Amarrian districts means that even before the match they are at a great advantage that essentially nullifies the efforts of the enemy faction and doesn't reward effort unless you happen to be on the already winning side.
Option one would deploy a sliding scale to the number of FW offensive contracts to the winning side meaning that late game, the winning faction has to be winning their cruicial Offensive contracts consistently to be winning the systems from the enemy, while the losing side has the opportunity to dig themselves out of a rut by winning their greater numbers of offensive contracts.
E.G- If the Minmatar would generated I Offensive contract per hour, the Amarr would generate 4. If the Amarr ended up dominating they would generate one contract, the Minmatar would generate 4.
Just to clarify, I didn't post these as options, but rather multiple steps to create something wonderful (with my opinion on priority).
And I agree, I want a constant generation of contracts, which would happen with the other points as well. Keep in mind with locking a district, I am only suggesting very temporarily, like an hour, because if you just took over a district you should feel confident that you won't lose it one moment later. Also with point 3, basically you could game can look at where players want to play as an extra factor when determining where to generate the contract. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2455
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
DildoMcnutz wrote:I like 4, I don't wanna just play skirmish all the time.
What I like about step 4 besides fixing this situation where one side cannot get out of a hole is that it would making taking over a district feel more like a mission than simply a gamemode. I mean, think about it,
Ambush - Opening strike on a district to gain a foothold. Followed up by
Ambush OMS - You have made gains and have cleared the way for off map support. Followed up by
Skirmish - You are now making a push and taking over as much territory as possible. Followed up by
Domination - Your presence has been established and you are going for the final blow to take over the district. |
IamI3rian
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Worth mentioning my new friend, is that most of this takes place EvE side. We're just here for a (mostly insignificant) bonus.
As you've mentioned previously, we've got a bit of experience there. = )
Winning the battles is mostly irrelevant. What happens in space is what counts. It's just easier with us on the ground. = D
---
Remember: IamI3rian told ya
Wish I could play Skyrim again for the first time. -AflockOfHippies |
IamI3rian
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
348
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:DildoMcnutz wrote:I like 4, I don't wanna just play skirmish all the time. What I like about step 4 besides fixing this situation where one side cannot get out of a hole is that it would making taking over a district feel more like a mission than simply a gamemode. I mean, think about it, Ambush - Opening strike on a district to gain a foothold. Followed up by Ambush OMS - You have made gains and have cleared the way for off map support. Followed up by Skirmish - You are now making a push and taking over as much territory as possible. Followed up by Domination - Your presence has been established and you are going for the final blow to take over the district.
Also, this is a REALLY good idea. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2504
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
IamI3rian wrote:Worth mentioning my new friend, is that most of this takes place EvE side. We're just here for a (mostly insignificant) bonus.
As you've mentioned previously, we've got a bit of experience there. = )
Winning the battles is mostly irrelevant. What happens in space is what counts. It's just easier with us on the ground. = D
---
Remember: IamI3rian told ya
Wish I could play Skyrim again for the first time. -AflockOfHippies
Not true, you do more than you know for FW. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2458
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
IamI3rian wrote:Worth mentioning my new friend, is that most of this takes place EvE side. We're just here for a (mostly insignificant) bonus.
As you've mentioned previously, we've got a bit of experience there. = )
Winning the battles is mostly irrelevant. What happens in space is what counts. It's just easier with us on the ground. = D
---
Remember: IamI3rian told ya
Wish I could play Skyrim again for the first time. -AflockOfHippies
Well Brian, I acknowledge that the bonuses we provide can be seen as insignificant and that the majority of actions pertaining to FW take place in EVE. However, that is not at all what this thread is trying to address. What we are trying to elude to here is that when looking at FW exclusively through the lenses of Dust (so imagine for a second that nothing else matters), the system in place for who controls each district is broken. Again, talking about who controls a district in Dust, not who controls a system in EVE. |
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XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
380
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
I just finished about 8-10 games facing the amarr
and it was minmatar a full team of 16 vs amarr a team of 3-8
as the minmatar faction stormed the field and captured at least 3/4 of the objectives
then the amarr side started to fill up with merks
but by that time its just to late for them to really control more then 1 point |
Nguruthos IX
PEN 15 CLUB
1932
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
will read later |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2459
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:I just finished about 8-10 games facing the amarr
and it was minmatar a full team of 16 vs amarr a team of 3-8
as the minmatar faction stormed the field and captured at least 3/4 of the objectives
then the amarr side started to fill up with merks
but by that time its just to late for them to really control more then 1 point
Huh, that is interesting if matches are not filling up.
Also in the case that you find yourself winning the vast majority of matches for the Minmatar, keep in mind we also find ourselves winning the vast majority of matches for the Amarr. At the end of the day squads always win. |
Vin Vicious
Capital Acquisitions LLC
Public Disorder.
529
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
What side needs the most help? Amarr or caldari? |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2504
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:I just finished about 8-10 games facing the amarr
and it was minmatar a full team of 16 vs amarr a team of 3-8
as the minmatar faction stormed the field and captured at least 3/4 of the objectives
then the amarr side started to fill up with merks
but by that time its just to late for them to really control more then 1 point Huh, that is interesting if matches are not filling up. Also in the case that you find yourself winning the vast majority of matches for the Minmatar, keep in mind we also find ourselves winning the vast majority of matches for the Amarr. At the end of the day squads always win.
Indeed I think over the course of perhaps 10+ matches we lost maybe 1. And we surely played more over the course of the day, not to mention I went and helped bashing and Ihub to reclaim as system.
All around today should have been a great success for the Amarr but Amarrian control dust side will not change because of the screwy contract mechanics related to capturing systems. |
steadyhand amarr
Amarr S.A.D
1447
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Somthing needs to be done because iv gone back to public contracts because its clear fw is broken at the moment |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2462
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vin Vicious wrote:What side needs the most help? Amarr or caldari?
It is not that any side needs help, it's that the system is broken. Let me explain in a little more detail.
In Dust FW, whoever wins each battle gains immediate control of the district. Now, using the Amarr and Minmatar as an example, the Tribal Liberation Force and 24th Imperial Crusade are both looking to issue out attack contracts, with the opposing then accepting de facto to defend. The problem now arises that at some point (probably close to around when Uprising 1.4 allowed FW to be played in very rapid succession) the Minmatar had made a push and gained 99% of all districts. So now the pool of districts for the 24th Imperial Crusade to attack is in the hundreds, while the pool of districts for the Tribal Liberation Force to attack is very low, like 2 or 3. Despite this, both are issuing out attack contracts at the same rate. What this results in is that even if the Amarr and Minmatar split all battles (or really even if the Amarr win a majority of the battles), the Amarr forces are spread thin over hundreds of districts and then as soon as they gain a district every single contract by the Minmatar will immediately attack it since they have no option, so relentlessly assaulting until it is there's again.
So to restate the premise, neither the Amarr nor Caldari really need help, rather they are stuck in a hole that is impossible to get out of by the current system. |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
380
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
im pretty sure something is screwed up on CCP's side
we lose to the amarr and caldari as much as we win and im sure others do also
but the numbers just dont reflect that as of now
CCP really needs to look into this and get it resolved quickly
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2509
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 08:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO wrote:im pretty sure something is screwed up on CCP's side
we lose to the amarr and caldari as much as we win and im sure others do also
but the numbers just dont reflect that as of now
CCP really needs to look into this and get it resolved quickly
As Aero stated Offensive (district taking contracts) are generated at the same rate per FW faction, this mean a side with more districts open to them, aka those faction that take an early lead, will start to have more and more of an advantage over time as your Offensives target fewer enemy districts meaning it is easier to take districts, and harder to the enemy to retain and take their own.
As of now your have X Offensive contracts attacking say 7 systems and their associated districts. We have X contracts attacking 30+ systems and hundred of districts. Taking and holding is harder for amarr, while for the minmatar it is easy to take our smaller numbers of districts. |
Omareth Nasadra
QcGOLD
109
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 09:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
mechanic seems to be broken, but OP i blame one of your fellow pie for calling us ruster to get gud  |
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True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2516
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 09:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Omareth Nasadra wrote:mechanic seems to be broken, but OP i blame one of your fellow pie for calling us ruster to get gud
Admittedly I was a cocky **** that the time....
Still with all of this becoming more apparent that all Minmatar aligned corp groups are winning 90% of engagement comparable to our 90% wins and Aero's theories about the FW mechanics I am more convinced that if FW were rebalanced it would be a more entertaining and competitive place.
Still we do beat a lot of squadded groups who always give us a great battle. The shout outs going to Ultramarines, Science for Death, Prima Gallicus, and Southern Legion. Fantastic fights every time. |
Omareth Nasadra
QcGOLD
111
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 10:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
i remember when FW started, you guys were the first organized group fighting for your faction, always had great fight against amarr empire, as a former EVE FC you got my respect, roleplay adds to the game  |
True Adamance
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2516
|
Posted - 2013.10.02 10:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Omareth Nasadra wrote:i remember when FW started, you guys were the first organized group fighting for your faction, always had great fight against amarr empire, as a former EVE FC you got my respect, roleplay adds to the game
That is high praise. Thank you. I still see you guys around in FW from time to time, scaring the crap out of me with your squads, tanks, AV, etc.
But yeah PIE is about 10 years old now and the oldest Amarrian Loyalist group in existence. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2660
|
Posted - 2013.10.09 18:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
NECRO
Could CCP have implemented some fixes into FW with Uprising 1.5? For so long the percentages have been at 1% for Amarr and Caldari, but things seem to be in an upswing now and I have my doubts that this is entirely because of the FW event.
Here's what I've noticed:
Early on, Amarr got to 20% in all regions
Right before downtime, Amarr got to 38% in Bleak Lands, around 20% in Devoid, and only 9% in Heimatar and Metropolis. Caldari was still struggling a little but gaining ground.
About an hour ago when I last checked, Amarr was ground in Bleak Lands going down to 16%, but gained substantial ground in Devoid and Metropolis at 38% each and 27% in Heimatar. Caldari got their first majority with 52% in Essense.
I'm not sure what's going on now, especially with how some regions seem to be going down while others go up. Perhaps its all just random. Anyone got some theories in general for what CCP changed? |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2721
|
Posted - 2013.10.10 23:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
Looks like the situation has now flipped, with Amarr and Caldari both owning 99% of the districts. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
9352
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 00:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
FW Event. |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
1228
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 01:00:00 -
[27] - Quote
as of this post Caldari are in 100% control of territories. |
Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2728
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 01:01:00 -
[28] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:FW Event.
So we going to have to run a FW Event everytime CCP deems it necessary for one side to get out of the hole? |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce
Caldari State
428
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 05:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:FW Event. So we going to have to run a FW Event everytime CCP deems it necessary for one side to get out of the hole?
i'm so glad your noticing this
I dont believe its the FW event at all IMO its CCP manipulating whatever was wrong with FW in the first place
I for one want FW fixed 100% not this one sided BS we have been dealing with
I play every faction but for the event I went gallente for the scout perks
what ive noticed is (like I mentioned before) im being thrown into redlined games
games that just started with high clone counts but the amarr/caldari have already redlined the team
games where its 3 Vs 16 then the board fills up after the enemy has 3/4 objectives
before 1.5 this is how it was when I was playing on the amarr/caldari side
I really dont know whats going on but I feel FW as of right now and before 1.5
is not decided by player/faction/eve but CCP manipulated |
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