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Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 475	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:07:00 - [1] - Quote I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon.
Dexter307 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 391	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:13:00 - [2] - Quote Are you leaving? Can I have your ISK?
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3220	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:16:00 - [3] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon. Lol, using CQ as an example is a bad move. The reason it never went beyond what it currently is is because the players literally rioted in response because they were going away from what the core aspects of the game were. They didn't finish, not because they didn't want to, but because the community spewed acid all over the place in response.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 477	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:32:00 - [4] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon. Lol, using CQ as an example is a bad move. The reason it never went beyond what it currently is is because the players literally rioted in response because they were going away from what the core aspects of the game were. They didn't finish, not because they didn't want to, but because the community spewed acid all over the place in response. Hey, I was THERE. My point is the development time between when it was announced to when something was delivered. If it had actually been walking in the station and not the one room and we were not forced to load into it because by Hilmar's admission we "wouldn't have used it" people wouldn't have freaked out. However, that wasn't what sent people over the edge. The combination of the above, The aurum NEX store DUST development and [GASP!] the slip about the possibility of microtransactions in EVE sent the raft over the falls. A combination of circumstances that quickly got lumped into the umbrella term of "Monoclegate". I'll leave that little gem for DUST bunnies to discover for themselves.
Gods Architect SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 607	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:33:00 - [5] - Quote ^^ thank you dev.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 477	Posted - 2013.10.02 03:36:00 - [6] - Quote Dexter307 wrote: Are you leaving? Can I have your ISK? No. I'm one of the people that are intrigued with the world and the designs and concepts CCP creates enough to loosely stick with them. I wouldn't be playing this game otherwise.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 551	Posted - 2013.10.02 04:17:00 - [7] - Quote Brilliant post. By far my favorite post I've read here so far (no sarcasm). IMO this perfectly captures what kind of developer CCP is.
Bartimaeus of Achura Cassardis 42	Posted - 2013.10.04 00:54:00 - [8] - Quote stupid post no offence but this is on console its different... I think we will be able to see if you are right about dust 514 if they decide they are not porting it to the ps4.
Michael Arck Anubis Prime Syndicate 1346	Posted - 2013.10.04 01:00:00 - [9] - Quote Yea it's on a console where bratty gamers expect the developers to bend to their will because ya know, the majority of console game developers do that, bend to bratty gamers wills. Even if they did port to PS4, if you're complaining now, you're going to be complaining later. I'm pretty sure you would find something to gripe about. The OP is saying in so many ways that CCP is a unique developer. You don't rush an artist through his painting do you? It's how CCP work. The grand scheme to me is very interesting and I'm sticking it out. I'm quite impressed what they have done with EVE and even EVE had words of doom hit its shores every step of the way. Lo and behold a decade later, its still strives on.
iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1022	Posted - 2013.10.04 01:11:00 - [10] - Quote CCP work really hard but it doesn't really seem to pay any dividends in terms of the player perception of delivery. I think they got the development cycle down but they got to start trickling out more tangable content, I mean toys, and by that I really mean, guns, tanks, suits and more interesting challenge design that ties with the eve universe, is meaningful and immersive.

Mac Dac Wraith Shadow Guards 228	Posted - 2013.10.04 01:37:00 - [11] - Quote this is why we should start our own riot and demand things we want, but the community is so split in opions that i think we would make things worse. CCP might be screwing up a lot but they haven't pissed off the community enough for us all to riot for 1 particular reason.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 345	Posted - 2013.10.04 01:47:00 - [12] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Yea it's on a console where bratty gamers expect the developers to bend to their will because ya know, the majority of console game developers do that, bend to bratty gamers wills. Even if they did port to PS4, if you're complaining now, you're going to be complaining later. I'm pretty sure you would find something to gripe about. The OP is saying in so many ways that CCP is a unique developer. You don't rush an artist through his painting do you? It's how CCP work. The grand scheme to me is very interesting and I'm sticking it out. I'm quite impressed what they have done with EVE and even EVE had words of doom hit its shores every step of the way. Lo and behold a decade later, its still strives on. "You don't rush an artist through his painting do you? It's how CCP work." While I like your analogy and understand where you are going with it its many of us who have followed this game since the first trailers in what 2008 and spent money through closed BETA, open BETA, and now 6 months of "release" feel it's more like this. CCP came to us with design concepts for this awesome painting and said if you give me the money for this portrait I'll have it to you within a year you will have the fantastic work of art you've commissioned. Then a year later the artist returned with a stick figure on the canvas and more design concepts of how life like this portrait will be. Then a few months later he showed back up with the same stick figure only it looked a little better and maybe a couple minor more details were added. Would you give that artist more money based on nothing more than his promise you will get the portrait you asked for? I know I wouldn't, but you still want that awesome painting you've payed for already.
low genius the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance 616	Posted - 2013.10.04 01:51:00 - [13] - Quote so, you don't have any idea what you're talking about... thanks for stopping by to qq on the forums. we'll add that to the stack.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1054	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:02:00 - [14] - Quote WTFE. Myself, I don't quite care. The difference between DUST, EVE, and this rant, to which I expect CCP will be Hypersensitive like GTA police officers, is that. DUST- Workable Core, Crap NPE, still Crap MMing, Missing content. EVE- Workable core, Safe area for Nubs to mine iskies, even in the early areas. Mostly full line-ups of stuff. Just missing specialty Gear. Rant- Showcasing a Non-important area of the game. Who cares if you have Pretty Hangers if the game is Imbalanced? Or broken? Indeed, While I am incredibly close to throwing DUST out of the Window, your rant about how a non-critical aspect of gameplay was left untouched, and released unfinished is inherently flawed by the fact that the majority of players wont/cant use it, and that it is a simple vanity item.
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster 345	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:05:00 - [15] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: WTFE. Myself, I don't quite care. The difference between DUST, EVE, and this rant, to which I expect CCP will be Hypersensitive like GTA police officers, is that. DUST- Workable Core, Crap NPE, still Crap MMing, Missing content. EVE- Workable core, Safe area for Nubs to mine iskies, even in the early areas. Mostly full line-ups of stuff. Just missing specialty Gear. Rant- Showcasing a Non-important area of the game. Who cares if you have Pretty Hangers if the game is Imbalanced? Or broken? Indeed, While I am incredibly close to throwing DUST out of the Window, your rant about how a non-critical aspect of gameplay was left untouched, and released unfinished is inherently flawed by the fact that the majority of players wont/cant use it, and that it is a simple vanity item. I think you are getting hung up on the content rather than the OPs overall message which is putting it nicely saying that CCPs marketing ability exceeds its development ability, which I agree with at this point.
Meeko Fent DUST University Ivy League 1054	Posted - 2013.10.04 02:19:00 - [16] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: WTFE. Myself, I don't quite care. The difference between DUST, EVE, and this rant, to which I expect CCP will be Hypersensitive like GTA police officers, is that. DUST- Workable Core, Crap NPE, still Crap MMing, Missing content. EVE- Workable core, Safe area for Nubs to mine iskies, even in the early areas. Mostly full line-ups of stuff. Just missing specialty Gear. Rant- Showcasing a Non-important area of the game. Who cares if you have Pretty Hangers if the game is Imbalanced? Or broken? Indeed, While I am incredibly close to throwing DUST out of the Window, your rant about how a non-critical aspect of gameplay was left untouched, and released unfinished is inherently flawed by the fact that the majority of players wont/cant use it, and that it is a simple vanity item. I think you are getting hung up on the content rather than the OPs overall message which is putting it nicely saying that CCPs marketing ability exceeds its development ability, which I agree with at this point. To an extent. I believe they over advertise the vanities (WiS, and.................), however the bit they don't advertise that heavy on (Community, Industry, Meta), always seems to be good. Exempt DUST of course. Rip DUST to pieces as you will, however EVE is quite the success. Even if the windows are a rose-tinted.
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 562	Posted - 2013.10.04 03:46:00 - [17] - Quote What I've noticed is that CCP spares no expense as far as making CGI trailers to boost interest in the game but when it comes to the game quality itself it just feels cheap and gimmicky. Notable exceptions to game quality are: 1) recent set of maps where the lab complex actually does feel like a solid FPS arena 2) sound engineering - the game does great with different equipment and weapon sounds, though again music is sorta lacking and there are occasional sounds glitches like sound looping Everything else in the game feels half baked. CCP is staying true to itself - fairly aggressive viral and 'grass roots' advertisement that oversells the product, especially when it comes to promises of potential that will actually never be realized.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 485	Posted - 2013.10.04 08:44:00 - [18] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: What I've noticed is that CCP spares no expense as far as making CGI trailers to boost interest in the game but when it comes to the game quality itself it just feels cheap and gimmicky. Notable exceptions to game quality are: 1) recent set of maps where the lab complex actually does feel like a solid FPS arena 2) sound engineering - the game does great with different equipment and weapon sounds, though again music is sorta lacking and there are occasional sounds glitches like sound looping Everything else in the game feels half baked. CCP is staying true to itself - fairly aggressive viral and 'grass roots' advertisement that oversells the product, especially when it comes to promises of potential that will actually never be realized. Well said. This right here better explains my point.
steadyhand amarr Amarr S.A.D 1468	Posted - 2013.10.04 08:54:00 - [19] - Quote I thought players flipped their **** and that's why that was scrapped ans in dust people flipped out over the core so ccp fixed that instead of making new stuff. Moral of the story fourms are the worst place to gather feedback :-D
Cosgar ParagonX 5617	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:03:00 - [20] - Quote When you think about it, Uprising = Incarna. If that's the case, Dust should be improving from here on out...

Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1584	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:30:00 - [21] - Quote WoW, really ? I thought their problem is, that they say that the listen to the full community, but in reality they only listen to a very small percentage. The more you know.
George Moros Area 514 125	Posted - 2013.10.04 09:48:00 - [22] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon. The videos you posted are neither commercials, announcements nor trailers. They were tech demos which were presented at EVE fanfest. It's very difficult to argue that CCP is "overselling" their products based on this. WiS (walking in stations) was CCP's vision for the EVE's future, and they worked hard on it. However (as previously mentioned), there was a massive community riot against it, and after a public letter of apology from CCP's CEO to community, they put WiS on ice for the time being. The most important reason why EVE community was against WiS is that it offered cool looking human avatars walking around, but very little meaningful, concrete gameplay behind it. Community was furious because (among other things) CCP invested so much time and assets in developing WiS, while neglecting core gameplay (internet spaceships), which makes EVE what it is. CCP also released a cool-looking trailer relating to their vision for EVE and DUST (and the link between them). However, the video wasn't created with the intent to mislead the customer into thinking all of that is going to happen soon (TM), but rather as to (as the title of the trailer says) their vision for the game(s). So, in conclusion, I don't think CCP is overselling their products, nor offering only empty promises. They are an indie company with rather limited resources and a pretty grand and awesome vision for a unique gaming world. You can't really blame them for having a vision. At least, I can't. Also, DUST is a FTP product. If it takes them 5 years to get it to a point where they want it to be, they aren't doing it at anyone's expense but their own. What are you complaining about then? If you don't like it, play something else. Maybe you'll like at some point in the future. Then, you'll just download it again, and play it for free. Why all the heat?
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 148	Posted - 2013.10.04 10:13:00 - [23] - Quote Ludvig Enraga wrote: ...promises of potential... What's that supposed to mean? Potential and future plans are just that, plans and a possibility of what could be. They are neither promises nor guarantees of anything. If someone is not smart enough to realize that and regrets having spent money on Dust, they have nobody to blame except themselves. Every game developer has a grand vision and all kinds of plans of what they want to do. Years later, when the final product comes around, usually only a small part of that vision remains, and dozens of prototypes have been thrown into the trashbin. It's to be expected, and nobody cares because they only see what they get with the final product, not what was lost compared to early protoypes or all the features that were planned but never made it into the final product. The difference between CCP and most other developers is that CCP talks openly to their fans about their early plans,and shows the prototypes they have at the time. That might create high expectations at times, but everyone with a brain should know that what CCP says they want to do is not necessarily what they will have achieved years later. Accusing CCP of scamming their customers just because a prototype from years ago is different from what they deliver today is nothing short of moronic, or dishonest.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1584	Posted - 2013.10.04 10:22:00 - [24] - Quote George Moros wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon. The videos you posted are neither commercials, announcements nor trailers. They were tech demos which were presented at EVE fanfest. It's very difficult to argue that CCP is "overselling" their products based on this. WiS (walking in stations) was CCP's vision for the EVE's future, and they worked hard on it. However (as previously mentioned), there was a massive community riot against it, and after a public letter of apology from CCP's CEO to community, they put WiS on ice for the time being. The most important reason why EVE community was against WiS is that it offered cool looking human avatars walking around, but very little meaningful, concrete gameplay behind it. Community was furious because (among other things) CCP invested so much time and assets in developing WiS, while neglecting core gameplay (internet spaceships), which makes EVE what it is. CCP also released a cool-looking trailer relating to their vision for EVE and DUST (and the link between them). However, the video wasn't created with the intent to mislead the customer into thinking all of that is going to happen soon (TM), but rather as to (as the title of the trailer says) their vision for the game(s). So, in conclusion, I don't think CCP is overselling their products, nor offering only empty promises. They are an indie company with rather limited resources and a pretty grand and awesome vision for a unique gaming world. You can't really blame them for having a vision. At least, I can't. Also, DUST is a FTP product. If it takes them 5 years to get it to a point where they want it to be, they aren't doing it at anyone's expense but their own. What are you complaining about then? If you don't like it, play something else. Maybe you'll like at some point in the future. Then, you'll just download it again, and play it for free. Why all the heat? So CCP tried to give people a Chocolate Ice Cream to make the long afternoons more enjoyable, and EvE players complained that was to "sweet" for their taste ? Hey CCP !! We like Ice Cream in Dust 514 !! Double Chocolate please !! with PLENTY of sugar.... thanks.
Karl Koekwaus Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 188	Posted - 2013.10.04 10:23:00 - [25] - Quote Seems to me that CCP set a goal for a game and then develop towards that goal. It sucks when you're impatient, but leads to nice results and ever expanding games.
Eskel Bondfree DUST University Ivy League 149	Posted - 2013.10.04 10:33:00 - [26] - Quote Banning Hammer wrote: So CCP tried to give people a Chocolate Ice Cream to make the long afternoons more enjoyable, and EvE players complained that was to "sweet" for their taste ? Lol, I guess you could say that. To complete the analogy, Eve players threw the ice cream into CCP's face and yelled "Give us more meat balls for the main dish! Meat balls are serious business, chocolate ice cream is not!". Because CCP couldn't cook as many meat balls as they usually did when they had to spend extra time on preparing that ice cream.
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1584	Posted - 2013.10.04 10:56:00 - [27] - Quote Eskel Bondfree wrote: Banning Hammer wrote: So CCP tried to give people a Chocolate Ice Cream to make the long afternoons more enjoyable, and EvE players complained that was to "sweet" for their taste ? Lol, I guess you could say that. To complete the analogy, Eve players threw the ice cream into CCP's face and yelled "Give us more meat balls for the main dish! Meat balls are serious business, chocolate ice cream is not!". Because CCP couldn't cook as many meat balls as they usually did when they had to spend extra time on preparing that ice cream. Well, it sounds to me that CCP is saying ; - You like Meat balls ?, do you ?, fine... we going to give you so many Meat balls that they going to come out of your ass. And we going to make them as bitter as possible.
Sylwester Dziewiecki Beyond Hypothetical Box 179	Posted - 2013.10.04 11:06:00 - [28] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon. It is in first sentences that Himlar sed on this year FanFest We can not open Captain's Quarters door yet (more or less), he even ask community is it 'ok' for them. CCP is solid company, they hate to launch unfinished products - years of what they are doing with EVE proves that; they constantly re-make things to make them perfect. If they can not accomplish something because technology is not allowing them to do so, they don't throw it into the bin, they patiently wait when they will be able to deliver it to us with 100% conviction about it quality. Usually it's all about how long it takes to create new content, and how many employees will have to work on it, every launch of EVE build is managed so we(customers) will get maximum content to work with. They simply cannot focus extremly on one thing - Ambulation - force every employee to work on this for another 6 months, because this particular future is not something that everyone in EVE is dying to see, for 85% of players that 6-month of mans work will be wasted. Stop ruminate on things that you are not sure.
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 485	Posted - 2013.10.04 11:18:00 - [29] - Quote George Moros wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon. The videos you posted are neither commercials, announcements nor trailers. They were tech demos which were presented at EVE fanfest. It's very difficult to argue that CCP is "overselling" their products based on this. WiS (walking in stations) was CCP's vision for the EVE's future, and they worked hard on it. However (as previously mentioned), there was a massive community riot against it, and after a public letter of apology from CCP's CEO to community, they put WiS on ice for the time being. The most important reason why EVE community was against WiS is that it offered cool looking human avatars walking around, but very little meaningful, concrete gameplay behind it. Community was furious because (among other things) CCP invested so much time and assets in developing WiS, while neglecting core gameplay (internet spaceships), which makes EVE what it is. CCP also released a cool-looking trailer relating to their vision for EVE and DUST (and the link between them). However, the video wasn't created with the intent to mislead the customer into thinking all of that is going to happen soon (TM), but rather as to (as the title of the trailer says) their vision for the game(s). So, in conclusion, I don't think CCP is overselling their products, nor offering only empty promises. They are an indie company with rather limited resources and a pretty grand and awesome vision for a unique gaming world. You can't really blame them for having a vision. At least, I can't. Also, DUST is a FTP product. If it takes them 5 years to get it to a point where they want it to be, they aren't doing it at anyone's expense but their own. What are you complaining about then? If you don't like it, play something else. Maybe you'll like at some point in the future. Then, you'll just download it again, and play it for free. Why all the heat? But EVE players said when, when, when about WiS and all the while CCP is showing slick videos of their vision they could have been fixing the stuff ppl had been complaining about for some time plus they could have added more real features to the game in the meantime. And why even release the WiS feature as they did with it reduced to CQ and half baked? My point still stands about the way CCP develops stuff. DUST players not familiar with this are going to expect more and sooner than what CCP deems soon. Hence, there will be and is a lot of people turning away. Only people that can understand that "vision is greater than actual features" thing CCP has going is going to stay. Marketing is marketing. CCP does oversell themselves. I do think it is a sort of scam, a disservice to the customer base to lure them in with stuff that will not happen for some time or ever. This is especially true with ppl who have not been with them through EVE. This makes them look bad vs other companies. With DUST it's already biting them in the ass. EVE players already don't want to have anything to do with it. So there's that future selling point gone if they put it on the PC.
Monkey MAC killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance 808	Posted - 2013.10.04 11:44:00 - [30] - Quote # Since Fanfest we still have 4-5 months of core content, development! # Concepts are called concepts for a reason, concepts can get all the way to production then scraped. # CQ is more of an eve add-on at the moment, is little need to be outside your space ship #In the video "battle for caldari prime" the cq looks a hell of a lot better to me. Rubicon is the start of something big for eve, a potentially player controlled universe. But its gonna take a long time and so is dust. CCP is like paying Leonardo de Vinci to paint the last supper, but instead you get the mona lisa, a tank, and a flying machine instead. Personally Ill have the mona lisa bundle over the last supper.

George Moros Area 514 127	Posted - 2013.10.04 12:22:00 - [31] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: But EVE players said when, when, when about WiS and all the while CCP is showing slick videos of their vision they could have been fixing the stuff ppl had been complaining about for some time plus they could have added more real features to the game in the meantime. Yes. Community expected meaningful gameplay from WiS and/or fixing the broken stuff already in game. CCP apologized for the lack of gameplay in WiS, and promised to focus on fixing stuff/core gameplay. And that's exactly what they did. Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: And why even release the WiS feature as they did with it reduced to CQ and half baked? They made a mistake, recognized it as such, apologized and moved forward in the direction community asked for. What more can you expect? Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: My point still stands about the way CCP develops stuff. DUST players not familiar with this are going to expect more and sooner than what CCP deems soon. Hence, there will be and is a lot of people turning away. Only people that can understand that "vision is greater than actual features" thing CCP has going is going to stay. Marketing is marketing. CCP does oversell themselves. I do think it is a sort of scam, a disservice to the customer base to lure them in with stuff that will not happen for some time or ever. This is especially true with ppl who have not been with them through EVE. This makes them look bad vs other companies. With DUST it's already biting them in the ass. EVE players already don't want to have anything to do with it. So there's that future selling point gone if they put it on the PC. Yes. CCP is paying the price for moving in a console / FPS market, not fully knowing the specific mindsets of such community. Again, I do not see this as a proof of CCP deliberately misleading their customers.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD 1019	Posted - 2013.10.04 13:11:00 - [32] - Quote Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Operative 1171 Aajli wrote: I'd like to give the DUST bunnies that have not played EVE or are not familiar with CCP before DUST an "education" in the way CCP does things. THIS and THIS is what CCP presented several years ago. About three to five or so years later THIS is what we got. The video shows the alpha stage, but here's the thing GÇö IT NEVER REALLY GOT BEYOND THAT ALPHA STAGE! CCP oversells this stuff to get you to come on board. They end up not really giving you any more than a broken glimpse of this after years of development. What I'm saying is GÇö CCP doesn't know how to develop a game efficiently. They need your money in the meantime so they scam you with false dreams. Maybe not so much the money with DUST than as numbers that they can use to inflate the success of their game. By then you've left and they are at it again with the next crop of "player/developers" who pay for stuff on promises or whatever a more accurate word might apply to what CCP offers. What I'm really, really saying is GÇö don't hold your breath. If you aren't willing to return to this game in three to five years and you aren't at all intrigued with the world of EVE enough to stick with their games; then you might as well just give it up. You aren't getting the game you want any time soon. Lol, using CQ as an example is a bad move. The reason it never went beyond what it currently is is because the players literally rioted in response because they were going away from what the core aspects of the game were. They didn't finish, not because they didn't want to, but because the community spewed acid all over the place in response. Hey, I was THERE. My point is the development time between when it was announced to when something was delivered. If it had actually been walking in the station and not the one room and we were not forced to load into it because by Hilmar's admission we "wouldn't have used it" people wouldn't have freaked out. However, that wasn't what sent people over the edge. The combination of the above, The aurum NEX store DUST development and [GASP!] the slip about the possibility of microtransactions in EVE sent the raft over the falls. A combination of circumstances that quickly got lumped into the umbrella term of "Monoclegate". I'll leave that little gem for DUST bunnies to discover for themselves. This is exactly how it went down. A combination of developer arrogance with a stunning inability to read signs that were painfully obvious to the playerbase. Sound familiar mercs? But to be fair, i think of that as the old CCP, at least EVE-side. And looking at recent developments in DUST, i'm thinking a similar lesson has been learned DUST-side, albeit for different reasons. Regardless of what happened in Shanghai, i like the prioritization we've been seeing from 1.3 onwards.


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