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Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
393
   |
Posted - 2013.09.28 22:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
So i've seen people saying that CCP is planning on changing the Logi skill bonus. Beyond that, people are complaining about how it makes Logis like Assaults.
I want to get everyone's opinions, but IMO, Logis are the supportING, so they are not being supportED. People who use Logis as an Assault chose to do that. A "real" Logi (my definition of "real" being supports the teams with at least reps and ammo) wouldn't be Assaulting.
Post your opinion on this; what you think, why you think it. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
763
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 22:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Okay, a little personal history. During Beta I started as a Sniper. Got bored and switched to Logi. That was not boring.
Find a good Heavy that knew how to play (cover, recharge, reload and ambush Reds) while providing ammo, repair and revives would let me make the same WP as the Heavy. Many times I was near the top of the Killboard with few kills. Just when finding a Heavy or protecting the Heavy from flanking attacks.
But there were plenty that exploited the system and many disliked any Logi being at the top of the Killboard. Okay, relearn a bit and now you had to add Kills or drop to the bottom half of the Killboard.
Then Uprising came out. The Caldari Logi was poorly thought out. But it gave many Mercs the idea that using a Logi Fit to do Assault was profitable. And it was. Then they got the Wang Nerf Hammer of Doom. The response was to try other Fits but without a SP respec many are stuck with the one they chose first. How can you leave when another Fit is several million SP?
Yet we still have QQ Kittens on these Forums complaining about getting beaten on the Killboard by a Logi Fit. While some are upset about some acting as Assault they rarely understand that the current Logi has to Kill to make enough WP. It is how the system is balanced currently. I have used my Heavy with a sniper rifle, Assault with a revive and many other combinations. Whatever works and make the game fun (or playable for you). That is what matters.
These forums will continually be filled with QQ Kittens about a Logi shouldn't be able to use a Light Weapon or a Heavy should not be allowed to use a sniper rifle. Whatever we say is never going to change them. Once a QQ Kitten, always a QQ Kitten. |
SgtDoughnut
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
202
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Posted - 2013.09.28 22:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
The big problem with the current logi bonus is that it allows them to be more aggresive. They are constantly gaining health and are able to use any weapon that assaults can use. TF2 had a problem with this as well along the lines of the medic. Whenever they gave the medic weapons that were strong enough to allow him to assault people would stop playing him as a healer and would use his health regen to be a more self sufficient slayer. This is the reason the needle gun is so meh unless you are right ontop of your enemy or have crits (crit needle gun is something to fear) We are going through that problem with Logi right now, even will the loss of a sidearm we are still able to slay quite efficiently and have extra equipment to boot. This makes the logi an attractive choice for people who want to be self sufficient. |
Patrick57
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
393
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 22:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
SgtDoughnut wrote:The big problem with the current logi bonus is that it allows them to be more aggresive. They are constantly gaining health and are able to use any weapon that assaults can use. TF2 had a problem with this as well along the lines of the medic. Whenever they gave the medic weapons that were strong enough to allow him to assault people would stop playing him as a healer and would use his health regen to be a more self sufficient slayer. This is the reason the needle gun is so meh unless you are right ontop of your enemy or have crits (crit needle gun is something to fear) We are going through that problem with Logi right now, even will the loss of a sidearm we are still able to slay quite efficiently and have extra equipment to boot. This makes the logi an attractive choice for people who want to be self sufficient.
But, IMO, the only way to actually get a good use of the armor rep bonus is to run a Proto Amarr Logi and stack up 4 Complex Armor Repairers, leaving you little health. I just don't see how something as small as that can actually make you an efficient slayer. Maybe Logis should get less Mod slots than Assaults.
P.S. This is coming from a Logi himself. Yes, I actually suggested nerfing my own suit  |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
1605
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Posted - 2013.09.28 22:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:So i've seen people saying that CCP is planning on changing the Logi skill bonus. Beyond that, people are complaining about how it makes Logis like Assaults.
I want to get everyone's opinions, but IMO, Logis are the supportING, so they are not being supportED. People who use Logis as an Assault chose to do that. A "real" Logi (my definition of "real" being supports the teams with at least reps and ammo) wouldn't be Assaulting.
Post your opinion on this; what you think, why you think it.
There's nothing that says a logi should be "support". Their role is logistics. That can be the 3 Rs of Dust: Repping, Reviving & Resupplying. But it can be other things as well, best expressed by the speed hacking Minny logi.
The current logi bonus works as a convenience, rather than a catalyst. It's basically an extra module that logis may or may not have put on their suit anyway. It doesn't improve their effectiveness the way the Sentinel's reload bonus, or a Scout's reduced profile does.
I'm happy to see it go. Hopefully the new one will make a bit more sense. Personally I always felt that Gallente logi bonus should have been the general logi bonus from day1. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1371
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 22:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Patrick57 wrote:So i've seen people saying that CCP is planning on changing the Logi skill bonus. Beyond that, people are complaining about how it makes Logis like Assaults.
I want to get everyone's opinions, but IMO, Logis are the supportING, so they are not being supportED. People who use Logis as an Assault chose to do that. A "real" Logi (my definition of "real" being supports the teams with at least reps and ammo) wouldn't be Assaulting.
Post your opinion on this; what you think, why you think it.
I'll tell you this:
Im a SCRAMBLER RIFLE user.
I got Lv 3 Assault amarr only for this prupose. Got around 300 shields and 300 armor with 1 dam mod.
Then i thought, dude if im going to be slow the least i can do is have more HP or more firepower.
Then i started playing Logis and i got both.
Now i use AMarr Logi ADV, 2 Cx Damage mods and 1 Cx Shield ext (217 shields) i ruse a Basic armor repairer , a basic armor plate and an enhanced armor plate (440 armor). SO thats 657 total HP (50 more than my assault), armor rep rate of 6.9, stable scanners and nanos.Have more HP, more Armor repair rate and my shield starts regenerating at least 3 seconds before it would with the Assault.
All this at the expense of 60 stamina,a tasteless bonus and 60 shield....
Even with the bonus...I dont EVEN MISS the ASSAULT suit.
People must understand , 5 Armor regen at proto level in a game where armor DOES NOT regenerates itself , is the BEST bonus. ITs so good, even Caladari Logis Armor tank now...lol |
Tectonic Fusion
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
261
|
Posted - 2013.09.28 23:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Honestly I'm a Logi and I only attack if they enter a 1-20 meter radius. I sue SMG and ScP for my medic fitting. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
387
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 00:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
I dont see any problems with the logi skill. Its fine as it is, dont change it. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries
EoN.
682
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 00:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Logis aren't supposed to be supported in anyway, other than being guarded.
Maybe the skill is there because they are meant to only support others. So they need something to rely on. |
KalOfTheRathi
Nec Tributis
768
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:Logis aren't supposed to be supported in anyway, other than being guarded.
Maybe the skill is there because they are meant to only support others. So they need something to rely on. Well the one thing a Logi can count in DUST is no support, backstabbing, QQ Kittens and Wang Nerf Hammering them.
Hardly seems like something a rational individual would want to be involved with. But once the SP is spent, you are kinda stuck down in the DUST aren't you. Aren't we all for that matter.
However, continuing on the QQ theme, I got killed today by a Scout with an AR. That has to stop today. Scouts should carry telescopes and notebooks to write down the location of enemies. Then they can scurry their little fannies back to the Red Line and give notes to Snipers so a Proper Merc can make the Kill. Like a good little scout.
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RKKR
The Southern Legion
The Umbra Combine
418
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Posted - 2013.09.29 11:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Don't worry, they couldn't implement the new logi bonuses in previous patches because of small technical issues.
This means we will not see it until patch 3.7 or atleast not until CCP decides to stand by their 'open communication'-statement, but you know how it is which means it will never come and they hope we'll hopefully forget about all this stuff.
Warning: The chance of a CPM/DEV/GM post about how cynical/sarcastic/negative post won't help to evolve DUST, but the problems will still remain. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5553
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
I've seen people complain that the Minmatar logi racial bonus is OP... |
Mortedeamor
Internal Rebellion
297
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 11:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
the amarian logi is meant to be more attack power based but lower tanking ability than the others so that is an exception to this. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
1608
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 12:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I've seen people complain that the Minmatar logi racial bonus is OP...
Lol, it's a glorious thing. But it's useful in 1 scenario. That's it. Although 1 extra hack mod on top of it can counter hack about as fast as a default hack.
I need to go play a skirmish. |
calvin b
Molon Labe.
RISE of LEGION
639
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 13:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think assault at the current moment is underpowered compared to a logi. I will explain below how I came to this conclusion.
I have proto Cal Logi it come with 5 high 4 low 3 equipment slots but has the lowest power of the 4 logi's
Now I can put 3 complex shield extenders 2 complex damage mods(High side)
1 Complex Armor 1 advance cardiac regulator and 1 Adv Kin Cat and 1 Advance scan dampner
1 Duvolle and 1 Nade
Because I can forgo the Armor repair this allows more freedom if I so choose to stack Armor plates but it would kill the speed of the suit.
With the Cal Assault it comes with 4 high 3 low 1 equipment slot
3-4 Complex shield extenders(high side) and or 1 Damage Mod
2 Complex Armor 1 Complex Armor repair
I might be able to squeeze a Duvolle if I sacrifice my nade, sidearm, or equipment due to lack of power.
This is a serious problem when a logi has more strength and fighting power than assault
Now lets move to the Gallente
So far I have skilled into a Advance Gallente Assault
Its a joke the difference between Assault and basic advance is 1 CPU extra due to racial bonus and my shields rep 15% faster(5% faster for each level), but since I am Armor class this bonus makes no D*** since.
The Gallente assault needs armor repair as its racial bonus and give us something better than 5% reduction in CPU/PG in hybrid weapons. What if you do not use a hybrid weapon this would make this bonus worthless.
So lets see into the future and I go Proto Gallente Logi
2 Complex damage mods/ Complex shield extender(High side)
4 Complex Armor plates 1 advance cardiac regulator(Low side)
1 Duvolle 1 nade
I can forgo the Armor repair thanks to racial bonus and I have also the bonus of 5% equipment reduction in equipment use if I so choose to use it.
The negative of the Logi is no side arm
So in my opinion the Logi is far superior to the assault in so many ways. Also CCP can we please change the color of Logi's I am not a D*** Banana. Also as a Gallente assault at the moment I do not want my suit white, make it all black, tan, or chameleon so I can blend in and not stick out.
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negative49er
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
229
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Posted - 2013.09.29 13:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I've seen people complain that the Minmatar logi racial bonus is OP...
Wait what, all we are doing is hacking that not hurting anyone |
PADDEHATPIGEN
BurgezzE.T.F
Public Disorder.
64
|
Posted - 2013.09.29 13:18:00 -
[17] - Quote
This is the problem, if i want to i can make a fitting like this...
5 X Complex shield extender.
4 X Enhanced armor plate.
3 X Compact nanohive.
1 X Flux grenade.
1 X Carthum assault scrambler rifle.
Stats:
CPU: 458/459
PG: 102/102
Shield: 588 HP.
Armor: 596 HP.
Stamina: 115.
Stamina recovery rate: 12.00.
Shield recharge rate: 20.
Armor repair rate: 3. (im still only lvl 3, at lvl 5, its 5)
Movement speed: 4.33.
Sprint speed: 6.06.
Melee damage: 110.
This is a 1.184 HP suit, it can move fast, it uses a proto ASCR, it will never run out of ammo, it can rep itself, and has grenades to.
Im only putting the truth out there... 
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