|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
798
   |
Posted - 2013.09.30 23:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Md absolutely depends in nano hives. This limits fits greatly. It's really low considering it takes a fair amount of your clip to take someone down. Another clip wouldn't hurt I don't think. That's 6 rounds. Even when used sparingly the 18 rounds in total an md gets without skills is hard to stretch
Flaylock needs a radius buff at the very least. I can run an smg as a main. Hmm. Thats just it, the MD is not supposed to be a slayer weapon! It is a support weapon designed for area denial and crowd control! Yes, you will burn through ammo at an extreme rate firing your entire clip at one heavy to make sure you get that kill! If you use it properly by firing into a zerg, then let your team mates finish them off after they scatter, you would get 6 - 8 assists easily. Thats 150 - 200 WP from 1 - 2 rounds, as opposed to 50 WP for using a whole clip on one guy!
*cough* short-range breaching *cough*
The mass driver is a unique weapon in that it has 2 places its highly effective, but for entirely different roles.
Roles a mass driver is capable of:
* Short range breaching - Good for lobbing grenades down those new gallentean stairs, causes chaos and confusion.
* Area-Denial - Makes someone GTFO off the immediate area, slows frontal assaults, holds upchoke points.
* Flanking - With a bit of smarts MD users can be used effectively for flanking suppressed enemies.
* Long range Suppresion - New flare effect can be used as terror weapon.
* IW - like all light weapons, the MD is capable of killing in a 1v1 fight, a capable personal defence weapon
If you assume a MD user will just assist you in getting you kd/r up, you've got another thing coming, mainly logi suits that kill people and heavies being used in offence!
The MD is not and should not be any less capable of killing people in its intended range/role/location.
As for the OP MD needs a little more ammo, what you could do is change the "Max Ammo" Skill, to add 2 rounds per level instead of 1? |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
798
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
*cough* short-range breaching *cough*
The mass driver is a unique weapon in that it has 2 places its highly effective, but for entirely different roles.
Roles a mass driver is capable of:
* Short range breaching - Good for lobbing grenades down those new gallentean stairs, causes chaos and confusion.
* Area-Denial - Makes someone GTFO off the immediate area, slows frontal assaults, holds upchoke points.
* Flanking - With a bit of smarts MD users can be used effectively for flanking suppressed enemies.
* Long range Suppresion - New flare effect can be used as terror weapon.
* IW - like all light weapons, the MD is capable of killing in a 1v1 fight, a capable personal defence weapon
If you assume a MD user will just assist you in getting you kd/r up, you've got another thing coming, mainly logi suits that kill people and heavies being used in offence!
The MD is not and should not be any less capable of killing people in its intended range/role/location.
As for the OP MD needs a little more ammo, what you could do is change the "Max Ammo" Skill, to add to rounds per level instead of 1?
Simply because the MD can do something, doesn't make it well suited for that task. Sure the MD can kill 1v1 in a solo fight, but that was never its purposed role and this is not considered Quote:
*cough* short-range breaching *cough*
So no need to be a smart ass mkay. *Yes it is excellent for clearing rooms...how many rounds would you say that takes when you have a 16m area of effect? *yes we agree on area denial, again, how many rounds would you say this takes? Surely no more than 4 per engagement? *Flanking yes, but timing would be everything here. I wouldn't expect to get a lot of kills unless the squad you are flanking is already limping away. IMHO this would probably fall under crowd control. Again, not requiring much ammo given it's AoE *Eh, not so much. With the projectile travel time, all you would do here is betray your position to the enemy. *LOL no. It is not a personal defense weapon a sidearm is a personal defense weapon. The MD is a suppression weapon period.
No the MD is not a suppresion weapon, it is an independent weapon it does not require another weapon to finish the job!
It is not ideal for killing, but is effective enough in the right hands!
The MD is designed for 1v1 engagements in its prefered environment, you cannot deny an area if there is no threat of being killed!
16m area of effect applies to the assult only, with a 16m AOE it takes over a mags worth to clear a 15+ù15 box.
With a normal, with a 10m it takes maybe 4-5, which when you have a mag of six, requires a reload directly after.
The amount of rounds for area denial depends on the enemy, some engagements have used as much as 16 of my 18 ammo, because certain suits need more slugs!
And suppresion works perfectly, believe me!
But the main problem I have is why you believe the MD being a support weapon should not garner kills?
Wether it is a "support" weapon or not is down to the user, but if it wasn't designed to kill, why would anyone field it? |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
798
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 00:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:
No the MD is not a suppresion weapon, it is an independent weapon it does not require another weapon to finish the job!
It is not ideal for killing, but is effective enough in the right hands!
The MD is designed for 1v1 engagements in its prefered environment, you cannot deny an area if there is no threat of being killed!
16m area of effect applies to the assult only, with a 16m AOE it takes over a mags worth to clear a 15+ù15 box.
With a normal, with a 10m it takes maybe 4-5, which when you have a mag of six, requires a reload directly after.
The amount of rounds for area denial depends on the enemy, some engagements have used as much as 16 of my 18 ammo, because certain suits need more slugs!
And suppresion works perfectly, believe me!
But the main problem I have is why you believe the MD being a support weapon should not garner kills?
Wether it is a "support" weapon or not is down to the user, but if it wasn't designed to kill, why would anyone field it?
I never said it should not garner kills, I simply said it's main purpose is not to garner kills, but to suppress the enemy. It is effective enought that, when used in for it's intended role, it requires no more ammo, and gets plenty of kills. If by "clear a 15x15 box" you mean "kill everything in a 15x15 box" then yes, I could see why you are running out of ammo so much. Now, if by "clear a 15x15 box" you mean disperse and suppress everyone within that area, then you are lying if you say it takes an entire clip. No, the amount of rounds for area denial depends on how tightly clustered the enemy is. Area denial/suppression =/= kills Area denial means restricting enemies from entering a given area. You do not need to get kills to do this effectively. Suppression means keeping enemies restricted to cover, again, no kills required to perform this task. The MD is not a slayer weapon! Sure, you can get kills with it, but that is not it's main purpose.
I am aware you don't Need kills, but it is considerably more effective when it does so, denining an area with a little bit of splash damage only works to a point. You can not expect to lock down an area without killing the aggressor!
If I am gonna suppress an enemy advance, it'll me darn sight more productive to kill them, instead of waiting for a slayer weapon to finish the job, in which time I run out of ammo.
By clear a 15+ù15 box I mean get rid of, don't care how, but it is considerably more effective to kill them, then to chase them away. So really I don't see why a mass driver shouldn't be an effective killer, because at least in this game, its a lot more effective to deny an area by blowing them up.
especially because of the perma death, mass drivers are better for killing than other weapons because it ensures they don't get back up! But now your gonna tell me its not a "slayer" weapon.
But if it wasn't designed for killing, how is it gonna be effective in the battlefield?
And what defines a slayer weapon, being designed to kill? Or being your weapon, no one elses? |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
799
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Master Jariya wrote:
I could be saying all of these arguments about the HMG as well. It is a suppression/area denial weapon. I'll be damned if I get kills with it trying to keep the baddies at bay though. The only way to get kills with the HMG is to let them come in close, defeating the entire purpose of the HMG being area denial/suppression.
You can expect to lock down an area without killing anyone. If the Aggressor cannot approach without threat of death, have you not successfully locked down the area? The only Suit it takes a full clip to kill with a MD is a full Proto Heavy with 3 complex plates. I know because I have been the single target of a butt hurt MD user in plenty of matches. Him focusing on me caused his team to lose the CRU that my squad was hacking though. So he failed to do his job because he got greedy for a kill. Is that teamwork? Is that how you win a match?
A slayer weapon is a weapon specifically designed to kill and to kill quickly in it's optimal range. These include the AR, SMG, Sniper Rifle, Scrambler Pistol, Scrambler Rifle, Shotgun, etc. While slayer weapons can perform other roles such as area denial/suppression, their main purpose is to kill.
Area Denial/Suppression Weapons' main purpose is not to kill, but they have the ability to. These include the MD, HMG Flaylock Pistol, Grenades, Laser Rifle, etc.
There is no such thing as a slayer weapon, all weapons are specifically designed to kill, HMG, LR, FL, MD, Grenades, they are all designed to kill, they are designed to kill in their niches better than any other weapon. There is no such thing as a slayer weapon. Nor a slayer playstyle, if this game is about tactics there is no slayer. The "slayer" weapons are no better than any other weapon at killing in their preferred engagement.
The slayer playstyle is something you bring from other games.
As for the HMG do actually use it? Have used it for area denial? You can't deny an area without killing the enemy because they so easily outrange you. At most you can lock down a single corridor to 1-2 idiots. So no you can't really say the same arguements about the HMG.
The thing is Area Denial only works without kills in real life, at most here you loose an expensive suit, the threat of death is minimal, there for you must make the threat real, and kill any SOB sorry enough to try an enter your area. As for you blast radius calcs, the assult MD works best after a flux, 2 dmg mods, its poor at killing 1 person, because people would whine if it did 100dmg splash!
As for your friend against a heavy defending a cru.
What were you doing there in the first place, you should be denying access to a point, not slaughtering people at a cru?
And were you the most pressing matter? What did you expect him to do, soften up targets for just die to them anyway, in the hope his team may or may not be able to capatilise on the little sheild damage which is already quickly regenning.
It sounds like you want, MD weapons gone because 1 "butthurt MD user" killed you, its a weapon, it will kill people and does its job a hell of a lot better when it kills people! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
799
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Tech Ohm Eaven wrote:
"escape area of effect"
Heres how most heavies do it:
I shoot MD, I shoot MD, I shoot md, I shoot MD, reload and HMG heavy LOLS!!!!!!!! and BRRRRRRRIPPP!!! and TEch Ohm DIED!!...BAH!!
Ha Yea dude, a proto CalLogi with a MD can drop a heavy like it aint ****. All they have to do is strafe at the edge of our Optimal Range and spam at our feet = dead ass heavy. No offense, but you must really be **** with the MD if you can't kill a Heavy with it.
Sounds like your HMG suppression is going well!  |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company
General Tso's Alliance
799
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 17:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:Master Jariya wrote:
I could be saying all of these arguments about the HMG as well. It is a suppression/area denial weapon. I'll be damned if I get kills with it trying to keep the baddies at bay though. The only way to get kills with the HMG is to let them come in close, defeating the entire purpose of the HMG being area denial/suppression.
You can expect to lock down an area without killing anyone. If the Aggressor cannot approach without threat of death, have you not successfully locked down the area? The only Suit it takes a full clip to kill with a MD is a full Proto Heavy with 3 complex plates. I know because I have been the single target of a butt hurt MD user in plenty of matches. Him focusing on me caused his team to lose the CRU that my squad was hacking though. So he failed to do his job because he got greedy for a kill. Is that teamwork? Is that how you win a match?
A slayer weapon is a weapon specifically designed to kill and to kill quickly in it's optimal range. These include the AR, SMG, Sniper Rifle, Scrambler Pistol, Scrambler Rifle, Shotgun, etc. While slayer weapons can perform other roles such as area denial/suppression, their main purpose is to kill.
Area Denial/Suppression Weapons' main purpose is not to kill, but they have the ability to. These include the MD, HMG Flaylock Pistol, Grenades, Laser Rifle, etc.
There is no such thing as a slayer weapon, all weapons are specifically designed to kill, HMG, LR, FL, MD, Grenades, they are all designed to kill, they are designed to kill in their niches better than any other weapon. There is no such thing as a slayer weapon. Nor a slayer playstyle, if this game is about tactics there is no slayer. The "slayer" weapons are no better than any other weapon at killing in their preferred engagement. The slayer playstyle is something you bring from other games. As for the HMG do actually use it? Have used it for area denial? You can't deny an area without killing the enemy because they so easily outrange you. At most you can lock down a single corridor to 1-2 idiots. So no you can't really say the same arguements about the HMG. The thing is Area Denial only works without kills in real life, at most here you loose an expensive suit, the threat of death is minimal, there for you must make the threat real, and kill any SOB sorry enough to try an enter your area. As for you blast radius calcs, the assult MD works best after a flux, 2 dmg mods, its poor at killing 1 person, because people would whine if it did 100dmg splash! As for your friend against a heavy defending a cru. What were you doing there in the first place, you should be denying access to a point, not slaughtering people at a cru? And were you the most pressing matter? What did you expect him to do, soften up targets for just die to them anyway, in the hope his team may or may not be able to capatilise on the little sheild damage which is already quickly regenning. It sounds like you want, MD weapons gone because 1 "butthurt MD user" killed you, its a weapon, it will kill people and does its job a hell of a lot better when it kills people! I can't I just.... There are weapons which are designed specifically to kill, but may be able to fill other support roles, though not as effectively as the support weapons. Other weapons are specifically designed to support, but can garner kills, though not as effectively as "slayer" weapons. If you can't wrap your brain around this then you should try to avoid balance discussions altogether. There is definitely a slayer playstyle. If not, what is ambush for? Certain Dropsuits are better suited to do one thing, kill! These are what the slayer players use. Other dropsuits are better suited to do other things more effectively such as support (logistics), defend (Heavies) or Recon (scouts). Yes, I actually use the HMG. Yes it is **** for it's intended role as area denial/suppression. I'm not arguing that point. You haven't really countered any of my arguments, all you have done is try to insult my abilities in game. As for what I was doing at the CRU, well, I was defending my squad as they were attempting to capture the CRU. Saying a Heavy's sole purpose is to camp objectives waiting to kill lone wolfs, or waiting to get killed by the zerging blob is simply ridiculous. No, I don't want the MD gone, but it seems you want it to be something it isn't designed to be. It's purpose is support, whether you want to admit it or not is immaterial. I'm not upset that the MD user killed me in the slightest bit. My team captured the CRU, then the objective adjacent to it, simply because he got greedy for one kill, when he could have driven an entire squad away from the CRU instead, giving his team a chance to regroup, and defend the installation.
Didn't counter arguement?
Because saying Area Denial wont work effectively when your ******* immortal isn't a counter?
If 1 weapon is better designed to kill why would we use any other weapon? Why would we use niche weapons, the MD is DESIGNED to kill, its a lethal weapon, support is an ability, not its defining role, it's defining role is to kill whomever is put in front of it like any other weapon.
How would 1 guy with an MD really drive away an entire squad, you think people just flee from a MD?
This isn't real life, there is no concerns for dying, death is tempory, yet inevitable, so an MD user is really no more effective, if he decided you were the most pressing matter that is his call!
But you say you were at the cru "defending" your team, but a mass driver cant support his team by killing, he just has t hope to scatter a bunch of immprtal mercanaries, who can out range him?
As for the slayer role, thats called cannon fodder!
|
|
|
| |
|