DUST Search - WP for Orbitals needs to go...

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Aisha Ctarl wrote:

Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it.

I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies.

I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T

This sin't about a well organized squad fairly earning an OB. It's about how stupid the practice is in a world that takes itself as seriously as New Eden, and how legitimate roles have been damaged by heavy-handed 'anti-booster' fixes. I'm not QQing, and you, as a Logi, should be with me. When was the last time you went out of your way to heal a vehicle?

I've healed friendly vehicles and turret installations plenty of times. If it can make a difference for my team, I'm going to try my best to keep it alive.

You can take the moral high-ground and say you do it, but do you go out of your way to do it? Is it a viable action if you wish to get decent battle rewards? No. Why? Because people abused the Orbital system and CCP enacted a heavy-handed 'fix'. It's the same reason why AV players go Kamikaze, they HAVE to get that HAV kill or else all their work was in vain. They may have repelled the vehicle, but the end of match rewards won't cover the deaths it took to do so.

Dude you've got this pessimistic view that everyone does everything to simply farm WP.

Yeah, if I see a tank or LAV in distress, I will go out of my way to run over to it and heal it because I'M A LOGI, IT'S MY JOB.

I'll make sure though if I run into you on my team I'll just let you bleed out, run around with no armor, or go without ammo the entire match since you know I don't want to WP farm.

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Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1024	Posted - 2013.09.25 16:37:00 - [1] - Quote ...or at least needs to be heavily redone. We lost Logi repair points to vehicles because people were abusing the feature to farm WP for Orbitals. We lost being able to heal people on our team for WP after the firefight is over (there is a 10 second timer after damage is taken or some-such) because people were farming it for Orbitals. We lost the ability to get WP for damaging vehicles because people were abusing it to get Orbitals. I'm sure there are more things that we've lost, but I am not aware of them. There are three things you could away from this. 1. Boosters are damaging the game. 2. WP are bad. 3. WP should not give Orbitals. Well, we can't just ban all boosters, that would take an unreal amount of policing for CCP. WP aren't bad per-se, they give a somewhat accurate representation of player contribution, as is their role. That leaves number three. WP should NOT give ORBITALS. Orbitals need to be given on a more reasonable timetable. Remember MAG's Mortars/Airstrikes? They had a large cooldown, and the on-field requirement to use them was ownership of a specific building. If MAG, or Planetside 2, used the Call-of-Duty-esque system we use here then those games would have been ruined from the get-go by players on the other team AWOXing to create an infinite stream of mortars. Sound similar? Like how we had LAVs ramming to give people WP? Like how we had HAVs on the enemy team that just sat there running reppers so the other team could get AV damage WP? You CAN'T stop an ass from being an ass. Look at how much the AFK 'fix' fixed. You need to treat this at the source, not try to stop boosters. Boosters will boost, it's what they do. Punish them if it's against the rules, but take away why they do it. Cut the connection between WP and in-battle giant explosives.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1700	Posted - 2013.09.25 16:43:00 - [2] - Quote or WP doesn't give orbitals in FW. Only Eve players can generate/launch them.
Aisha Ctarl Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1374	Posted - 2013.09.25 16:49:00 - [3] - Quote Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it. I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies. I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 2237	Posted - 2013.09.25 16:56:00 - [4] - Quote Fairly certain they are working on a system that makes EVE players completely responsible for the OBs. Not sure what that means for pub matches where EVE players can't interact, but I wouldn't be totally opposed to making OBs a FW/PC exclusive feature.
Skihids Bullet Cluster 2166	Posted - 2013.09.25 16:58:00 - [5] - Quote I get your point, but I'm not sure about the conclusion. WP's also increase the SP reward and the ISK payout, so disconnecting it from the OB won't eliminate the incentive to boost. A number of the closed beta boosters were going only for the SP and simply wasted the OB's on empty sections of the map or didn't even call them in. The OB also encourages squading up which is a good thing. So it's a mixed bag..
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1585	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:00:00 - [6] - Quote WP for orbitals works fine. Only in PC & FW does its function as a game mechanic not make sense. I think what you really want is a reworking of the WP system, which we already know is on the way.
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 422	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:03:00 - [7] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it. I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies. I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T You should see a full logi squad on a good day, 6 - 7 orbitals a game
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1024	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:09:00 - [8] - Quote Skihids wrote: I get your point, but I'm not sure about the conclusion. WP's also increase the SP reward and the ISK payout, so disconnecting it from the OB won't eliminate the incentive to boost. A number of the closed beta boosters were going only for the SP and simply wasted the OB's on empty sections of the map or didn't even call them in. The OB also encourages squading up which is a good thing. So it's a mixed bag.. Removing the WP to OB connection will make those players dead weight on their team as opposed to a constant stream of death from above. If a booster is getting a higher KDR than a Thales Sniper without ever leaving the safes of safe redzone areas, something is wrong. The way they fixed that, however, unfairly damaged legitimate roles.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1024	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:12:00 - [9] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it. I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies. I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T This sin't about a well organized squad fairly earning an OB. It's about how stupid the practice is in a world that takes itself as seriously as New Eden, and how legitimate roles have been damaged by heavy-handed 'anti-booster' fixes. I'm not QQing, and you, as a Logi, should be with me. When was the last time you went out of your way to heal a vehicle?
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1024	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:17:00 - [10] - Quote Chunky Munkey wrote: WP for orbitals works fine. Only in PC & FW does its function as a game mechanic not make sense. I think what you really want is a reworking of the WP system, which we already know is on the way. A reworking of the WP system is nice and all, but it'll be gamed by boosters no matter what they decide to do if it allows them to grow both their KDR and their WP records with no risk. It doesn't make sense to have WP give OB anywhere, but only in FW and PC do we have a substitute; namely, actual EVE players. We still need some system for Pubs, and cooldowns to simulate target locking and reloading is far better than... DUST Bunny: We need an OB NAOW! Warbarge Operator: You need to get 125 more Arbitrary Points. DB: Wut? WHY! WO: Because we hate you. DB: We haven't called one in yet, you HAVE to have it loaded! WO: Yea, we do. DB: There are literally 15 enemies right here. PLEASE. WO: Nope!

Aisha Ctarl Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1375	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:23:00 - [11] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it. I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies. I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T This sin't about a well organized squad fairly earning an OB. It's about how stupid the practice is in a world that takes itself as seriously as New Eden, and how legitimate roles have been damaged by heavy-handed 'anti-booster' fixes. I'm not QQing, and you, as a Logi, should be with me. When was the last time you went out of your way to heal a vehicle? I've healed friendly vehicles and turret installations plenty of times. If it can make a difference for my team, I'm going to try my best to keep it alive.
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 350	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:28:00 - [12] - Quote Replace the OB for an area wide SCAN that lasts x amount of time and displays to the entire team. However the squad shares equally in the WP generated from kills e.g. 5 WP when a team member (not part of your squad) gets a kill and 25 WP when a squad member gets a kill during that time frame. By sharing the WP earned equally among the squad you give a major incentive towards squading up and not just being the squad leader. OB's can be achieved through other means but not sure what.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1024	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:29:00 - [13] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it. I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies. I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T This sin't about a well organized squad fairly earning an OB. It's about how stupid the practice is in a world that takes itself as seriously as New Eden, and how legitimate roles have been damaged by heavy-handed 'anti-booster' fixes. I'm not QQing, and you, as a Logi, should be with me. When was the last time you went out of your way to heal a vehicle? I've healed friendly vehicles and turret installations plenty of times. If it can make a difference for my team, I'm going to try my best to keep it alive. You can take the moral high-ground and say you do it, but do you go out of your way to do it? Is it a viable action if you wish to get decent battle rewards? No. Why? Because people abused the Orbital system and CCP enacted a heavy-handed 'fix'. It's the same reason why AV players go Kamikaze, they HAVE to get that HAV kill or else all their work was in vain. They may have repelled the vehicle, but the end of match rewards won't cover the deaths it took to do so.
Aisha Ctarl Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 1375	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:35:00 - [14] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it. I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies. I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T This sin't about a well organized squad fairly earning an OB. It's about how stupid the practice is in a world that takes itself as seriously as New Eden, and how legitimate roles have been damaged by heavy-handed 'anti-booster' fixes. I'm not QQing, and you, as a Logi, should be with me. When was the last time you went out of your way to heal a vehicle? I've healed friendly vehicles and turret installations plenty of times. If it can make a difference for my team, I'm going to try my best to keep it alive. You can take the moral high-ground and say you do it, but do you go out of your way to do it? Is it a viable action if you wish to get decent battle rewards? No. Why? Because people abused the Orbital system and CCP enacted a heavy-handed 'fix'. It's the same reason why AV players go Kamikaze, they HAVE to get that HAV kill or else all their work was in vain. They may have repelled the vehicle, but the end of match rewards won't cover the deaths it took to do so. Dude you've got this pessimistic view that everyone does everything to simply farm WP. Yeah, if I see a tank or LAV in distress, I will go out of my way to run over to it and heal it because I'M A LOGI, IT'S MY JOB. I'll make sure though if I run into you on my team I'll just let you bleed out, run around with no armor, or go without ammo the entire match since you know I don't want to WP farm.
Zero Harpuia Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 1024	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:45:00 - [15] - Quote Aisha Ctarl wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Aisha Ctarl wrote: Well if a well organized squad can earn enough to get two or three OB's, good for them - they earned it. I can earn a one man OB myself just from doing Logi work, hacking objectives, and killing enemies. I'm sorry, but in short that sounds like T_T This sin't about a well organized squad fairly earning an OB. It's about how stupid the practice is in a world that takes itself as seriously as New Eden, and how legitimate roles have been damaged by heavy-handed 'anti-booster' fixes. I'm not QQing, and you, as a Logi, should be with me. When was the last time you went out of your way to heal a vehicle? I've healed friendly vehicles and turret installations plenty of times. If it can make a difference for my team, I'm going to try my best to keep it alive. You can take the moral high-ground and say you do it, but do you go out of your way to do it? Is it a viable action if you wish to get decent battle rewards? No. Why? Because people abused the Orbital system and CCP enacted a heavy-handed 'fix'. It's the same reason why AV players go Kamikaze, they HAVE to get that HAV kill or else all their work was in vain. They may have repelled the vehicle, but the end of match rewards won't cover the deaths it took to do so. Dude you've got this pessimistic view that everyone does everything to simply farm WP. Yeah, if I see a tank or LAV in distress, I will go out of my way to run over to it and heal it because I'M A LOGI, IT'S MY JOB. I'll make sure though if I run into you on my team I'll just let you bleed out, run around with no armor, or go without ammo the entire match since you know I don't want to WP farm. You are looking at this from a White Knight's point of view, which is admirable but incurably naive. What is a WP? A WP is supposed to be a unit that guages the relative usefulness of a player's contributions on the battlefield. This is a fact. It is a flawed system because people game it not for it's intended usage, but to create Orbital Strikes. This is also a fact. Due to this, several actions that deserve WP have been removed or dampened from the WP registry because they were being abused to create OBs and not for their intended uses. This is also a fact. What are you arguing, Ms. Ctarl? That Logis SHOULDN'T get WP for repairing vehicles and installations and just do it because it is 'right'? If it were 'right' we would get WP for doing it, but something is keeping us from getting those well-deserved points. Orbital Strikes. You can continue being a naive fool and suggesting that we should just do it because it is 'right', but I will continue to campaign for the benefit of all Logis to get this feature back. You are included in this umbrella. Go ahead and not heal me, flaunt your misguided sense of righteousness. I care not for it.
Sarcastic Dreamkiller Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 14	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:51:00 - [16] - Quote I think receiving WP for killing with an orbital should stop being a thing.
Crash Monster Snipers Anonymous 1433	Posted - 2013.09.25 17:55:00 - [17] - Quote Yeah, leave it as is but don't give WP for use of an orbital.
Beck Weathers High-Damage 136	Posted - 2013.09.25 18:00:00 - [18] - Quote Kills from an orbital should nto count tward the next orbital. that is all.
Sarcastic Dreamkiller Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 14	Posted - 2013.09.25 18:02:00 - [19] - Quote Beck Weathers wrote: Kills from an orbital should nto count tward the next orbital. that is all. Kills from an orbital shouldn't count as kills, just deaths that do not provide WP or count towards the squad leader's kdr.


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