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taxi bastard
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.09.22 23:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Firstly, I know the game is not finished so we expect a lot more items to come out to bridge some of the current gaps i.e at lvl 4 shield upgrades I can only get an item 50% as strong as at lvl 5, where as lvl 4 shields is only 5% less than lvl 5 shields which is inline with what you would expect. I have 3.4 million SP's I believe, so there some issues for me with this at the moment but for a new player who does not have any lvl 5 skills this problem is magnified greatly and needs to be addressed ASAP.
With the passive skills I believe that the game has got it right, As for the SP's which unlock items I believe as things stand the reward for having signed up earlier and having access to far better gear is far to great and leaves new players in a situation where there is too much to catch up on to compete. that being the case do you expect them to be around for very long?
ISK spend vs capability. in all honesty I can't really speak with too much knowledge in the spending side. my best suit costs 23k I believe and yes its a fat suit, my cheap fat suit is about 1/3rd of the price and is about 75% as good. the obvious question for me is when I spend 70k for the next fit above will it really be twice as good as my first? if that is the case then we are back to a player enjoyment and battle balance issue.
tanks, why have so many tankers got it into their mind that because they spend x amount they should be demi gods on the battle field? ok they spend a lot of isk but when you look at the trade-offs which a tank must have it can't be a master of all i.e firepower, mobility, protection to have power in one there should be a trade off in another. beyond that a tank has and should have vulnerabilities. many tanks I see seem quite happy to go into urban area's where they are and should be vulnerable. read the forums and you will see they moan about not being able to get out of situations, but why? tanks should either spear head an attack with infantry support or provide fire support for an infantry attack. working as part of a team they are very strong, going around and believing they can solo everything on the battlefield is not what they are ment for and doing so they should be very vulnerable. also tank with 3 people in > tank with 1 person in but how many full tanks do you see?
really I believe that the game should have tiered battles - tier 1 battles without great rewards so its just not worth the risk of bringing in great gear. tier 2 battles with average rewards where if you loose a few good suits you make a loss. tier 3 battles with high rewards where its worth bringing the best but being stomped will cost you. with this sort of system I believe players will naturally find their own lvl of battle.
meh my 2 cents
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Lillica Deathdealer
Mango and Friends
415
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Posted - 2013.09.22 23:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seriously though, we need tiercide. I'm doing some ridiculous stuff with my protoed out amarr assault. Can you say 425 shields, 574 armor? And thats not even maxed on some of it. Not to mention triple complex damage modded scrambler one shot charge shot to poor cal frames... We need tiercide. Its not a matter of gun, or suit, or vehicle, its a matter of tiers. |
Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
793
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Posted - 2013.09.22 23:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
taxi bastard wrote:With the passive skills I believe that the game has got it right, As for the SP's which unlock items I believe as things stand the reward for having signed up earlier and having access to far better gear is far to great and leaves new players in a situation where there is too much to catch up on to compete. that being the case do you expect them to be around for very long?
Welcome to Eve. A lot of catching up? You're half way there. I was able to compete (meaning I got my first protosuit) with 6 million SP. Also you are perfectly able to beat people with militia gear. People who have over 10 million SP use them, most of the time, to spec into alternate fittings, like another suit for example. Or training more core skills.
Quote:ISK spend vs capability. in all honesty I can't really speak with too much knowledge in the spending side. my best suit costs 23k I believe and yes its a fat suit, my cheap fat suit is about 1/3rd of the price and is about 75% as good. the obvious question for me is when I spend 70k for the next fit above will it really be twice as good as my first? if that is the case then we are back to a player enjoyment and battle balance issue.
Eve Online has a rule: You pay double for something that's 20% better. And this is perfectly fine in my opinion. Why should double the price equal something that's also twice as good? This would be more of a balancing issue. I mean: You did complain about having to catch up. But why, when players who play longer don't have that much of an advantage anyways, because the advanced gear is only 25% better than standard gear?
Quote:really I believe that the game should have tiered battles - tier 1 battles without great rewards so its just not worth the risk of bringing in great gear. tier 2 battles with average rewards where if you loose a few good suits you make a loss. tier 3 battles with high rewards where its worth bringing the best but being stomped will cost you. with this sort of system I believe players will naturally find their own lvl of battle.
Do you really want to split the community? We have 5000 active players at top times and you want to triple the amount of gameplay modes? This isn't a good idea, no matter how you look at. Because it would also just add a whole lot of new problems:
What do you count as Tier 1, 2 and 3? People can mix their equipment like they please. You can use a standard suit, but prototype shield extender. And after you got that problem solved you will find yourself in empty battles, because barely anybody will play in Tier 3 or TIer 1 for example. Especially with the new matchmaking this isn't worth it. |
low genius
the sound of freedom
Renegade Alliance
451
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Posted - 2013.09.23 00:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lillica Deathdealer wrote:Seriously though, we need tiercide. I'm doing some ridiculous stuff with my protoed out amarr assault. Can you say 425 shields, 574 armor? And thats not even maxed on some of it. Not to mention triple complex damage modded scrambler one shot charge shot to poor cal frames... We need tiercide. Its not a matter of gun, or suit, or vehicle, its a matter of tiers.
what do you think 'tiericide' means? |
taxi bastard
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.09.23 00:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:
Welcome to Eve. A lot of catching up? You're half way there. I was able to compete (meaning I got my first protosuit) with 6 million SP. Also you are perfectly able to beat people with militia gear. People who have over 10 million SP use them, most of the time, to spec into alternate fittings, like another suit for example. Or training more core skills.
]like in eve though a high SP player will be able to fit more items and be a lot better at using them giving them a large advantage compared to a similar fitted newb - as a result they will be a lot more affective
Quote:
Eve Online has a rule: You pay double for something that's 20% better. And this is perfectly fine in my opinion. Why should double the price equal something that's also twice as good? This would be more of a balancing issue. I mean: You did complain about having to catch up. But why, when players who play longer don't have that much of an advantage anyways, because the advanced gear is only 25% better than standard gear?
those 25% stack up when you add them all together 25% more armour DPS fitting slots for extra mods so its an awful lot more than that. also with the price of items being a lot more per lvl I agree with
Quote:
Do you really want to split the community? We have 5000 active players at top times and you want to triple the amount of gameplay modes? This isn't a good idea, no matter how you look at. Because it would also just add a whole lot of new problems:
What do you count as Tier 1, 2 and 3? People can mix their equipment like they please. You can use a standard suit, but prototype shield extender. And after you got that problem solved you will find yourself in empty battles, because barely anybody will play in Tier 3 or TIer 1 for example. Especially with the new matchmaking this isn't worth it.
maybe it should be SP based, but yea I believe as there is no PVE content you should have the option of fighting people around your own lvl, as time goes on the difference between skills will only grow and make it less attractive to those starting out in the game
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deepfried salad gilliam
Sanguine Knights
1
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Posted - 2013.09.23 00:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
About the isk for better gear
Your running a suit a that's 25% better in all ways dmg sheild armor etc
Skill aside
You both see eachother and shoot you kill him 25% faster because dmg
he would kill you 25% slower because of armor and shield
This isn't including your scanners being better or bigger clips faster reloads etc
Although looking at the numbers its not a lot a better suit is several times better because all the gear is seamingly exponential |
Vesago Ghostcore
Rejected Clones
16
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Posted - 2013.09.23 01:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
if you based matchmaking on SP, people that aren't very specifically focused trained will get it in the rear. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
975
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Posted - 2013.09.23 02:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
The SP gap has been narrowed, now that people who are new can aim.
Tiericide is the next on the list of leveling out the playing field for DUST.
Do It.
Tech 1, Tech 2, and so on. |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
740
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Posted - 2013.09.23 02:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
A few points for clarification.
The existing SP (mystery meat based) matchmaking will place someone with 1M SP against Proto gear. I have pictures. I suspect it is because they are using lifetime SP not allocated SP. When saving for a Pilot Suit that throws the current balancing off. However, when 4M SP is looked into closely getting Proto gear is very difficult realistically. There are too many other Skills that one needs to stay alive long enough to use the Proto gear.
Also we have asking, pleading, begging, demanding and whining pure Kitten QQ since Close Beta for proper Filters for the Battle Finder.
Specifically:
Vehicles: Normal, Only, None
Proto: Normal, Only, None
Corp Squads: Normal, Only, None
Min WP (Max SP, Allocated SP, whatever)
Max WP
Remaining Clones > half.
Remaining Shields > half.
Remaining Armor == full.
When there are enough active players concurrently then these should be allowed. To solve the not enough players to meet your particular filters then allow one or two fallback solutions.
Default Fallback: Normal Skirmish
Last Chance Fallback: Ambush
We don't have it yet. Consider this more of what we have done in the past. Except the Kitten QQ part.  |
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