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Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
383
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
All scouts need a passive scanner suit built into the suit. Wherever the scout goes enemies and their equipment light up within 25m around them. This will allow scouts to play a recon role and flank behind enemy lines revealing their positions and get some quick hit and run kills before retreating. With this scouts will have a viable role and reason to have an existence on the battlefield both pub and competitive play. |
Aisha Ctarl
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1320
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's called precision enhancement and range extension. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1817
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
What CCP needs to do is reduce our profile and tell us how passive scanning work. Basically passive scanning is supposed to be a weaker but constant variation of active scanning, while active scanning is a more potent but inconstant variation of passive scanning.
I like passive scanning because I like to scan with a weapon out, but CCP won't tell me how it works |
Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
383
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:47:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. Both which barely work, im talking about a passive abilty exclusive to scouts that work as an active scanner, but passive. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4026
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 19:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. And how does that make passive scanning on the Scout a way to provide intel you your teamates?
I've said this before and I'll stay it again. Basic Light Frame suits need a 15m base scan radius. Scout Suit should make enemies in passive scan range light up on TACNET for teammates.
If those two things happen, Light suits in general, and Scout suits in particular, will be MUCH more viable. Combine them with passive scanning that ACTUALLY WORKS CONSISTENTLY, and it'll be awesome. For now, passive scanning doesn't always work on enemies outside your vision arc (at which point it's practically useless because YOU CAN SEE THEM ANYWAY). Passive scanners NEED to be 360 arc, or they're useless for a Light suit. Even if they make the 15m range AND 360 detection arc exclusive bonuses to the Light Frame suits, then Scouts get the addition of sharing data, that would work. |
Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
141
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:What CCP needs to do is reduce our profile and tell us how passive scanning work. Basically passive scanning is supposed to be a weaker but constant variation of active scanning, while active scanning is a more potent but inconstant variation of passive scanning. I like passive scanning because I like to scan with a weapon out, but CCP won't tell me how it works
Hope the research is going well...but I guess not lol
Seriously though, CCP do like their secret mechanics...
In any case - passive-active scanning on scouts sounds like an instant boon for scouts. If only one thing could come in 1.5 (is is locked now?). This would be it. Easiest to monitor and balance - after all, 20-30ish meters of constant active scanning is hardly that bad when the 'mobile scanner' in question probably has less EHP than an uplink :P |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1696
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:What CCP needs to do is reduce our profile and tell us how passive scanning work. Basically passive scanning is supposed to be a weaker but constant variation of active scanning, while active scanning is a more potent but inconstant variation of passive scanning. I like passive scanning because I like to scan with a weapon out, but CCP won't tell me how it works
Look at the scan range and strength of your suit. These are base numbers and can be altered by your skills (though the "show info" only shows the unmodified numbers). If your range is 10 meters, then red dots will light up on your mini-map provided their scan profile is higher than your scan precision.
Skills that improve your scan precision will reduce this number. For example, if you have a 10% bonus and your precision is 50 base, your modified number would be 45. Anything with a scan profile that is 40.5 or higher will show up within 10 meters.
By the same token, your scan profile is reduced by your skills as well. So if you have a 10% bonus and your base profile is 45, thne your modified by skills # becomes 40.5. You won't show up on the above example's mini-map.
There are also skills to add to your radius - largest base radius is 10 meters (I think?); if you improve this by 10%, it goes to 11 meters.
Make sense? |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
712
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Or we could do this. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1697
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
If we are self promoting - here is a description of active scanning. Passive works in the same way, with the execption of the fact that there is no shared vision (meaning flashing red on your squad) and you use passive numbers and skills modifications, instead of using the numbers of the module (which cannot be modified by skills). |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
183
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Scouts used to have a base range of 25m on the passive scanner. We lost that in Uprising, along with a 6th slot at proto levels...
Getting those two back would be a start, sure enough, but quite frankly we needed some love even before those nerfs. |
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Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
712
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 20:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:If we are self promoting - here is a description of active scanning. Passive works in the same way, with the execption of the fact that there is no shared vision (meaning flashing red on your squad) and you use passive numbers and skills modifications, instead of using the numbers of the module (which cannot be modified by skills).
That's kinda common knowledge in Scoutland bro. |
621311251521 3316
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 21:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:All scouts need a passive scanner suit built into the suit. Wherever the scout goes enemies and their equipment light up within 25m around them. This will allow scouts to play a recon role and flank behind enemy lines revealing their positions and get some quick hit and run kills before retreating. With this scouts will have a viable role and reason to have an existence on the battlefield both pub and competitive play. nonononononnononononononononnonononononononononononononoonnononononnonononnonononnonononnonononnonononnonononononnonononononnono scouts need to be better for killing than assault suit give them 2000 % hp buff wit 9000 sprint speed wit jet pack. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1702
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 21:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:If we are self promoting - here is a description of active scanning. Passive works in the same way, with the execption of the fact that there is no shared vision (meaning flashing red on your squad) and you use passive numbers and skills modifications, instead of using the numbers of the module (which cannot be modified by skills). That's kinda common knowledge in Scoutland bro.
The way the post reads, that you don't know how passive scanners work, it doesn't appear to be. Just sayin' if it's common knowledge why ask the question? |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
274
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 22:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. Both which barely work, im talking about a passive abilty exclusive to scouts that work as an active scanner, but passive. Edit: That works for your squad/team I use adv precision from g1-proto on my asdv suit I put 2
I pick up everything from enemy's that spawn while im hacking to uplinks
you cant see unless scanned by an active
it also lets you watch the enemy's chevron thru walls |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
714
|
Posted - 2013.09.16 22:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:If we are self promoting - here is a description of active scanning. Passive works in the same way, with the execption of the fact that there is no shared vision (meaning flashing red on your squad) and you use passive numbers and skills modifications, instead of using the numbers of the module (which cannot be modified by skills). That's kinda common knowledge in Scoutland bro. The way the post reads, that you don't know how passive scanners work, it doesn't appear to be. Just sayin' if it's common knowledge why ask the question?
Simplified version of what I meant by buff scanners:
buff the Scan precision and range. don't do anything to the profile.
Clear now? I'm not sure how you got confused and though I was confused. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1822
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 00:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:
Look at the scan range and strength of your suit. These are base numbers and can be altered by your skills (though the "show info" only shows the unmodified numbers). If your range is 10 meters, then red dots will light up on your mini-map provided their scan profile is higher than your scan precision.
Skills that improve your scan precision will reduce this number. For example, if you have a 10% bonus and your precision is 50 base, your modified number would be 45. Anything with a scan profile that is 40.5 or higher will show up within 10 meters.
By the same token, your scan profile is reduced by your skills as well. So if you have a 10% bonus and your base profile is 45, thne your modified by skills # becomes 40.5. You won't show up on the above example's mini-map.
There are also skills to add to your radius - largest base radius is 10 meters (I think?); if you improve this by 10%, it goes to 11 meters.
Make sense?
You took me too literal
What I am asking is why doesn't something with higher profile than my precision show up on my radar sometimes? Are there weak spots in radar area? Does Precision have an effect on the the amount of time you remain on radar after being seen?
I understand the basics, but it's the nitty gritty that define why "Passive Scanning Sucks". By your reasoning a scout would always pick up a heavy within scan range but that is not true. There are variables afflicting our passive scanning that weaken it, variables that we are not aware of. |
OZAROW
WarRavens League of Infamy
665
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 02:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. I thinkOP means for squad shared vision, range an precision is only for the host curantly |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
507
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 02:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension.
No it's not. Those things you mentioned are so marginal in their effect they dont make a difference. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
255
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 02:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. And how does that make passive scanning on the Scout a way to provide intel you your teamates? I've said this before and I'll stay it again. Basic Light Frame suits need a 15m base scan radius. Scout Suit should make enemies in passive scan range light up on TACNET for teammates. If those two things happen, Light suits in general, and Scout suits in particular, will be MUCH more viable. Combine them with passive scanning that ACTUALLY WORKS CONSISTENTLY, and it'll be awesome. For now, passive scanning doesn't always work on enemies outside your vision arc (at which point it's practically useless because YOU CAN SEE THEM ANYWAY). Passive scanners NEED to be 360 arc, or they're useless for a Light suit. Even if they make the 15m range AND 360 detection arc exclusive bonuses to the Light Frame suits, then Scouts get the addition of sharing data, that would work.
This is a big no for me,
If you did this, that would mean that scouts would not get any benefits or wps for using the active scanner because the enemies are already lit up. Also it would mean that others would be getting kills that you are setting up yourself through shared vision. And lastly, having shared vision by scouts means that scouts vision will be limited, I'd rather have no shared vision but give us a much greater range of vision and we can communicate that to others. |
Omareth Nasadra
QcGOLD
77
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 02:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. And how does that make passive scanning on the Scout a way to provide intel you your teamates? I've said this before and I'll stay it again. Basic Light Frame suits need a 15m base scan radius. Scout Suit should make enemies in passive scan range light up on TACNET for teammates. If those two things happen, Light suits in general, and Scout suits in particular, will be MUCH more viable. Combine them with passive scanning that ACTUALLY WORKS CONSISTENTLY, and it'll be awesome. For now, passive scanning doesn't always work on enemies outside your vision arc (at which point it's practically useless because YOU CAN SEE THEM ANYWAY). Passive scanners NEED to be 360 arc, or they're useless for a Light suit. Even if they make the 15m range AND 360 detection arc exclusive bonuses to the Light Frame suits, then Scouts get the addition of sharing data, that would work. This is a big no for me, If you did this, that would mean that scouts would not get any benefits or wps for using the active scanner because the enemies are already lit up. Also it would mean that others would be getting kills that you are setting up yourself through shared vision. And lastly, having shared vision by scouts means that scouts vision will be limited, I'd rather have no shared vision but give us a much greater range of vision and we can communicate that to others. you may not have wp for using the scanner, but that'll benefit all your squad and will empty an equipment slot for you to fit a drop uplink, wich will net you wp, or whatever other dildo you want to put in your slot |
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Morathi III
Red Star. EoN.
225
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 06:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Omareth Nasadra wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. And how does that make passive scanning on the Scout a way to provide intel you your teamates? I've said this before and I'll stay it again. Basic Light Frame suits need a 15m base scan radius. Scout Suit should make enemies in passive scan range light up on TACNET for teammates. If those two things happen, Light suits in general, and Scout suits in particular, will be MUCH more viable. Combine them with passive scanning that ACTUALLY WORKS CONSISTENTLY, and it'll be awesome. For now, passive scanning doesn't always work on enemies outside your vision arc (at which point it's practically useless because YOU CAN SEE THEM ANYWAY). Passive scanners NEED to be 360 arc, or they're useless for a Light suit. Even if they make the 15m range AND 360 detection arc exclusive bonuses to the Light Frame suits, then Scouts get the addition of sharing data, that would work. This is a big no for me, If you did this, that would mean that scouts would not get any benefits or wps for using the active scanner because the enemies are already lit up. Also it would mean that others would be getting kills that you are setting up yourself through shared vision. And lastly, having shared vision by scouts means that scouts vision will be limited, I'd rather have no shared vision but give us a much greater range of vision and we can communicate that to others. you may not have wp for using the scanner, but that'll benefit all your squad and will empty an equipment slot for you to fit a drop uplink, wich will net you wp, or whatever other dildo you want to put in your slot Pretty much yeeah |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
552
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 07:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
buffing their noncombat potential is easy. 1 more regular and 1 more equipment slot + enough fitting power for both and suddenly scouts are viable. this would give them enough flexibility and utility to perform out of combat stuff like scanning, uplink droping or laying down RE traps but would not step on the toes of logis or assaults.
Assert Dominance wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. Both which barely work, im talking about a passive abilty exclusive to scouts that work as an active scanner, but passive. Edit: That works for your squad/team beside that, if you dont want to die in 0.5s then scouts dont have the slots to fit them |
Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
142
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 07:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote: This is a big no for me,
If you did this, that would mean that scouts would not get any benefits or wps for using the active scanner because the enemies are already lit up. Also it would mean that others would be getting kills that you are setting up yourself through shared vision. And lastly, having shared vision by scouts means that scouts vision will be limited, I'd rather have no shared vision but give us a much greater range of vision and we can communicate that to others.
There is me thinking that is a significant part of a scouts role...
If the passive is essentially becoming an active scanner, couldn't it just reap the WP as well? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4038
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 09:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:If you did this, that would mean that scouts would not get any benefits or wps for using the active scanner because the enemies are already lit up. Except that they're NOT marked by an Active Scanner unless you use one, so you'll still get WP when using it, and Active Scanners still have much better range than the best you can buff your passives to on the Scout suit. They also have better scan precision than you can get if you focus madly on buffing your scan radius to try and come close to matching the Active Scanner's detection range.
Quote:Also it would mean that others would be getting kills that you are setting up yourself through shared vision. And the problem with a SCOUT working effectively as a SCOUT comes in... how, exactly?
Quote:And lastly, having shared vision by scouts means that scouts vision will be limited, I'd rather have no shared vision but give us a much greater range of vision and we can communicate that to others. uhhhh... what? I'm suggesting expanded vision, but not to the point where it negates the purpose of using an Active Scanner for anything but WP farming. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
4038
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 09:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. Both which barely work, im talking about a passive abilty exclusive to scouts that work as an active scanner, but passive. Edit: That works for your squad/team beside that, if you dont want to die in 0.5s then scouts dont have the slots to fit them I'm pretty sure MY Scout suit doesn't need slots in order to "fit" the passive skill bonuses from the two skills mentioned.
Assert's point still stands, of course. |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
553
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 09:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:Aisha Ctarl wrote:It's called precision enhancement and range extension. Both which barely work, im talking about a passive abilty exclusive to scouts that work as an active scanner, but passive. Edit: That works for your squad/team beside that, if you dont want to die in 0.5s then scouts dont have the slots to fit them I'm pretty sure MY Scout suit doesn't need slots in order to "fit" the passive skill bonuses from the two skills mentioned. Assert's point still stands, of course. you can already passively scan it would actually work the gallente scout due to the bonus. there are mods to increase passive scanrange and precision too but the problem is, scouts dont have many slots to specialize into something like that and you wont fit them if you want survive a sneeze. the proto suit has only 1 high slot for those mods. |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
390
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 09:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rather than built it, i think the scanner should just be put into a permanant second equipment slot. With Basic having Basic, Advanced with Advanced and finally Proto with a Proto scanner.
Another thing id like to see is a nanohive 'Aura' for logis, so instead of having to place them you just hug your logi for ammo/reps pending the suit.
For Assault id say a built in cover shields that are coming would be nice.
For heavies/commandos they should have a 'battle cry' which increases armor/shield regen or give damage resist. |
Shotty GoBang
Pro Hic Immortalis
1165
|
Posted - 2013.09.17 17:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:Scouts used to have a base range of 25m on the passive scanner. We lost that in Uprising, along with a 6th slot at proto levels...
Getting those two back would be a start, sure enough, but quite frankly we needed some love even before those nerfs.
^ +1
Wish List
- Increased passive scan radius
- Widened speed gap
- Less fall damage, faster climb speed
- +1 High Slot for the Pro Gal
- +1 Low Slot for the Pro Minnie
- +1 Equipment Slot
- Increased CPU/PG
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