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Mo Gallas Gentralde
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
178
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Posted - 2013.09.12 20:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
From what I've seen over the past few days, the Time To Live(TTL) has been reduced to around 2-3 seconds when confronted with an assault or laser rifle. In most games the TTL is 4-7 seconds (of body shots) as an ideal because it gives you time to react if ambushed, or make tactical decisions such as using cover to evade/escape attackers who engage from too far away.
In games where the equipment is free 2 second lives are completely acceptable, but in dust we have to buy all our equipment.
In my opinion, in order to reach such a goal the damage of rapid fire guns must be reduced. Assault and laser rifles would probably be better off with 3 less damage per bullet due to the increased hit ratios (burst variants seem fine though as they already have said lowered DPS), as well as the speed of the aim assist's gummy grip dropped by about 25%
Anyone else have an idea of what an ideal engagement time is, and how to make it so? |
Cyrius Li-Moody
The New Age Outlaws
988
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Posted - 2013.09.12 20:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
remove that invisible complex damage mod every weapon got at the beginning of uprising and that'll be a great start. |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
336
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Posted - 2013.09.12 20:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:remove that invisible complex damage mod every weapon got at the beginning of uprising and that'll be a great start.
I think the damage output of most weapons is pretty decent. However, I am starting to lean toward a 5% reduction in damage output (to start) for fully automatic Assault Rifles only. And that is not because I am getting killed by them more...my deaths generally come from a decent balance of enemy weapons choices.
No, as an full-auto AR user, I have noticed that it is significantly easier to kill other players. So much so that my I switched the weapon on the fitting I use 90% of the time from a Duvolle (pre 1.4) to a Basic AR without noticing a significant difference in damage output.
I think if you go a full 10% folks will notice the drop off too suddenly. At 5% it will be more subtle and then take time to reassess. |
General John Ripper
The Generals EoN.
2393
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Posted - 2013.09.12 20:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well I would like to get married in the afternoon around 5ish. that way when all is said and done, i can spend the whole night getting drunk.
That is my ideal engagement time. |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
82
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Posted - 2013.09.12 20:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:Well I would like to get married in the afternoon around 5ish. that way when all is said and done, i can spend the whole night getting drunk.
That is my ideal engagement time. If you have no idea what engagement time means you can either learn it or submit to taking the "short bus" to work. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1682
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Posted - 2013.09.12 21:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
I always thought 6 months was a good engagement time. It's long enough to prepare the wedding, but not so long to draw things out. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1294
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Posted - 2013.09.12 21:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've stayed engaged with an enemy for 20 seconds as we weaved in and out of cover trying to kill each other. Then he got me with a nade.
Still, there you go. I lived for 20 seconds whilst engaged in combat. Why? I didn't rush forward hoping the game would compensate for my careless movement by lowering weapon damage in a game where we have extremely high HP compared to the most abused example, CoD, where you die to a few bullets and it comes down to who saw the other person first.
The point you make about equipment being expensive is also crucial. This is a game where your actions are meant to have consequences. Play more cautiously as a result, or (when they're available) pick low-reward, low-risk contracts. Soon ISK will actually have an impact after it lost most of its worth from the asset liquidation back in May. Once it does, a player market will actually work. |
General John Ripper
The Generals EoN.
2397
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Well I would like to get married in the afternoon around 5ish. that way when all is said and done, i can spend the whole night getting drunk.
That is my ideal engagement time. If you have no idea what engagement time means you can either learn it or submit to taking the "short bus" to work. That's kind of like using a FPS and asking "What's a gun?"... It's very basic terminology. Trolling the troll.
glad I could inspire a new generation. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5187
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Get rid of the slow down when you get hit mechanic (actually keep it for the HMG and any pending heavy weapons) and remove the strafe cap. |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
605
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote: In most games the TTL is 4-7 seconds
That's the wrong thing that makes your post invalid completely. It's not an aRPG! you have 4-7 seconds to react in RPGs not in FPS. TTL (or TTK as I prefer to call it) is still a bit too much, but still enjoyable. It should be a tactical shooter, not a "look at how i dance and dodge your bullets better than Raiden". If you know there's an entire squad in front of you that place should be a no-go, not a good reason for "moar kills" and "moar dance"-
Totally disagree with your post.
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Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
187
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:37:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:remove that invisible complex damage mod every weapon got at the beginning of uprising and that'll be a great start.
Totally agree! I got gunned down by a militia ar and an exile ar in my full tank minmatar proto suit, complex shield extenders and enhanced armor mods in about 3 seconds! I didn't even get to blink before I died! I'm starting to fit my suits with just profile dampeners and speed mods instead of a tank, tanks are meaningless now. |
Cenex Langly
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
189
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote:General John Ripper wrote:Well I would like to get married in the afternoon around 5ish. that way when all is said and done, i can spend the whole night getting drunk.
That is my ideal engagement time. If you have no idea what engagement time means you can either learn it or submit to taking the "short bus" to work. That's kind of like using a FPS and asking "What's a gun?"... It's very basic terminology.
It was obviously a joke... one that I found extremely funny! |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8400
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Posted - 2013.09.12 22:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
The discussion is ongoing and CCP is still in observation mode but I have to agree the TTK may be a wee bit too short enough to the point its nearly negating the use of tanking modules.
While its change the nature of the game towards a bit closer to where is should be in terms of high level play its a bit too constrained and inconsiderate of other factors that are supposed to matter in this game.
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Mo Gallas Gentralde
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
180
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote: In most games the TTL is 4-7 seconds That's the wrong thing that makes your post invalid completely. It's not an aRPG! you have 4-7 seconds to react in RPGs not in FPS. TTL (or TTK as I prefer to call it) is still a bit too much, but still enjoyable. It should be a tactical shooter, not a "look at how i dance and dodge your bullets better than Raiden". If you know there's an entire squad in front of you that place should be a no-go, not a good reason for "moar kills" and "moar dance"- Moreover, the thing that makes you spend more isks is not the TTK but the tier system itself. In fact, if you do well in a match where there was many good drop suits and relative good fittings you'll gain extremely high $$$. In other words, the more your enemy spend, the more you gain. Totally disagree with your post. Indeed, opinion noted. Even though half of today's shooters are RPGs (Borderlands, Mass Effect, Farside, X-com etc)
In 1.3 the TTK was about 4-7 seconds because not all of the bullets were detected when shot. And now that glitch strafing has been put aside by said boost, the engagement times that had been present felt much more natural to me than the current setup. Without the ability to dodge from cover to cover Hitman style, the only way to make a game tactical under gunfire is to allow the player just enough time to assess a situation and move if needed, but not enough to needlessly disco.
If you cut the encounter too short people feel cheated of ISK, and for good reason as then most modules are rendered 50% or more ineffective due to almost no difference in engagement time. |
xxwhitedevilxx M
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
606
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote:xxwhitedevilxx M wrote:Mo Gallas Gentralde wrote: In most games the TTL is 4-7 seconds That's the wrong thing that makes your post invalid completely. It's not an aRPG! you have 4-7 seconds to react in RPGs not in FPS. TTL (or TTK as I prefer to call it) is still a bit too much, but still enjoyable. It should be a tactical shooter, not a "look at how i dance and dodge your bullets better than Raiden". If you know there's an entire squad in front of you that place should be a no-go, not a good reason for "moar kills" and "moar dance"- Moreover, the thing that makes you spend more isks is not the TTK but the tier system itself. In fact, if you do well in a match where there was many good drop suits and relative good fittings you'll gain extremely high $$$. In other words, the more your enemy spend, the more you gain. Totally disagree with your post. Indeed, opinion noted. Even though half of today's shooters are RPGs (Borderlands, Mass Effect, Farside, X-com etc) In 1.3 the TTK was about 4-7 seconds because not all of the bullets were detected when shot. And now that glitch strafing has been put aside by said boost, the engagement times that had been present felt much more natural to me than the current setup. Without the ability to dodge from cover to cover Hitman style, the only way to make a game tactical under gunfire is to allow the player just enough time to assess a situation and move if needed, but not enough to needlessly disco. If you cut the encounter too short people feel cheated of ISK, and for good reason as then most modules are rendered 50% or more ineffective due to almost no difference in engagement time.
That's a good point. Well, with a larger TTK should be good another lateral movement nerf then. Otherwise it would be game breaking. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
1306
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
I think the concept of "having to pay for gear" is overdone here. It's ISK... you earn it by playing... the cost is simply an economic concept to make you value your crap and react appropriately.
That said -- we do seem to die a bit too fast. I think a little more time would allow people with reaction time and good instincts to have a chance of surviving, sometimes. |
Beck Weathers
High-Damage
54
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think alittle less than 1.3 TTK would be nice, say 5-7 sec |
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
82
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:I think the concept of "having to pay for gear" is overdone here. It's ISK... you earn it by playing... the cost is simply an economic concept to make you value your crap and react appropriately.
That said -- we do seem to die a bit too fast. I think a little more time would allow people with reaction time and good instincts to have a chance of surviving, sometimes. You can't forget Arum. You can buy gear with it that falls in the same problems. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
1102
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Posted - 2013.09.13 01:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
1.3 level TTKs reduce All Weapons damage by 15% and remove SS from ARs and SMGs and switching the AR's and HMG's range profiles would help... |
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