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Logi Bro
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
2216
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 13:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
And I noticed that the people that oppose a respec either don't like FotM or they think that their decisions matter. Well, I've already made a thread about my opinion of FotM, so I won't bother to repeat myself, but I have to ask people why exactly they think their decisions matter?
I mean, if I decide to use my most expensive gear, how does that decision matter? Increases my chances of winning? Too bad I don't get any better rewards from winning over losing. An empty reward if I have ever seen one.
If I had decided to spec into assault, scout, or heavy, does that decision matter? Not really, I am just one more to add to the crowd.
If I decide to use my good equipment, like my 80% nanite injector, does it reward me over using the militia variant? No, it actually penalizes me.(But that's a discussion for another thread)
I'm just wondering where everyone gets the idea that decisions matter in this stage of the game. Maybe this stuff will be different in the future, but right now decisions don't mean much of anything.
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Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
4113
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
When we say our decisions matter, we mean that in a way that has a consequence. Not being able to change your mind after investing 10 million SP into scouts is a consequence. You are stuck with the scout suit skills and thus have to grind more SP to cross train into something else. |
General John Ripper
The Generals EoN.
2378
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
so your saying.... I don't matter? |
Jack McReady
DUST University Ivy League
526
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Posted - 2013.09.12 14:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:When we say our decisions matter, we mean that in a way that has a consequence. Not being able to change your mind after investing 10 million SP into scouts is a consequence. You are stuck with the scout suit skills and thus have to grind more SP to cross train into something else. but currently the spend SP do not really matter. we have a very limited racial content we can skill into at the moment and everything is about the same in performance, esp. cause the majority uses the gallente AR. some people also wanted to start with specific race weapons because of aesthetics which they couldnt and were forced to get something else so in fact they actually had no choice.
offering a respec once all suits and weapons are done isnt a bad idea at all. it would instantly create more variation on the field (instead of everyone running around with AR in one of the current suits) and balancing could be done faster (cause you dont have to wait till enough people get SP into specific weapons to collect meaningful statistics).
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Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1614
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Posted - 2013.09.12 14:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:offering a respec once all suits and weapons are done isnt a bad idea at all. it would instantly create more variation on the field (instead of everyone running around with AR in one of the current suits) and balancing could be done faster (cause you dont have to wait till enough people get SP into specific weapons to collect meaningful statistics).
This is my only exceptional reason for a respec (besides CCP restructuring things). All basic racial things need to come out before they get even more specialized with suit types (COUGH COUGH, Commando suit)
Everything else, no. If you spec into something all the way, and then decide you don't like it anymore, oh well. spec'd into shields at level five because I'm an armor tanker and the wave of Massdriver 1.3 was a huge toll on my armor suit. so I had to convert it to a ****** shield suit. Now massdriver and explosives aren't present 98.6% of the time (now 76% of the time) and I don't need to stack shields on my suit anymore.
Am I bitching about a respec?
No, Even though I spent more than 2 million SP to get both shield skills up it was worth it not to die constantly from no skill explosive scrubs left and right.
That's what I'm sure a previous poster was talking about when he said everything has a consequence.
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pegasis prime
BIG BAD W0LVES
899
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 14:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would say your desisions matter say for instance you skill into heavy suits and nova knives then you will see and feel the effects of your desisions . Tge fact of the matter is your desisions affect your gameplay and that's what really matters. Smart folks dont wast sp untill they have maxed out their chosen speciality. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3379
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
My problem with the whole respec debate is twofold:
1. While people want to help new players out, it benefits the guy with 20m SP much more than the guy with 2m. 2. New Eden is built upon mountains of lore, and forgetting all of your skill with a Laser Rifle and immediately becoming master of an Assault Rifle doesn't make sense.
The second point can be fluffed out with words, and I'm ok with that. The first point, however, will always remain true. If I were to get a respec on all three of my characters, I could get Pig to proto gear no problem and have plenty left over to flesh him out. My other two, however, would struggle with advanced setups.
Now, if you were to introduce a respec system that can only be used while still new to the game, I'm all for that. I would like people to stop pretending that a full respec for all would benefit the new players more though. |
PADDEHATPIGEN
BurgezzE.T.F Public Disorder.
49
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Posted - 2013.09.12 15:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
A respec WILL be needed sometime in the future when all the racial suits and weapons have come out...
REASON: RACIAL BONUSES...
Players are training in weapons that DONT fit there race.
All AR users are using the Gallante assault rifle, and i think that in the future only Gallante suits will benefit from it, maybe Caldari to, they use the same railgun teck in there weapons...
Almost all Amar heavys are trained in Minmatar HMG or Caldari forge gun, my guess is they ALL would like to respec in to there racial heavy energy weapons when they come out.
To many Things are still missing, and SO many changes will happen, also to the racial bonusses.
Sometime in the future im sure ALL the bonusses will fit the races and there dropsuits and weapons...
By that time we ALL will need a respec... |
velos ALKARI
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
137
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
General John Ripper wrote:so your saying.... I don't matter?
I'll be your big spoon bro.dont worry |
SteelDark Knight
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
108
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 15:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
When we all heard terms like GÇ£Decisions matter and have consequencesGÇ¥ and GÇ£One Universe/One warGÇ¥ I believe we all hoped for it to be more significant than GÇ£did you spec Gallente Assault or Gallente Logistical?GÇ¥ |
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Toby Flenderson
research lab The Superpowers
25
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Decisions have consequences. Saying that it doesn't matter in the sense that it is of no concern to anyone else is true but that doesn't just relieve the person from their responsibility in making choices. It doesn't matter to anyone on this forum if I quit my job but I am still responsible for that decision. I don't really understand the overlap you're trying to make with a claim like this.
The argument I do respect is that not everything is currently available so people are being forced to specialize in multiple things. I agree that in an ideal world CCP would release everything at the same time but that simply didn't happen. I think that if there were to be a final respec it would come after everything has been changed/added to the ideal build.
Here we see the obvious problem: The Dust community is never happy.
There will always be issues and changes and probably additions to the game as well. I think because of this that a respec would be worthless at any defined point in time because people will just ask for another one later.
I wanted to go from minmatar assault to a gallente scout so I just did it. There is a lot of overlap between the core skills and so I only needed to buy the suit. So an extra 2.5m sp is really not worth asking for a respec for me.
Just my two cents. |
Saxbrin Shain
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
34
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aww, did you skill into something unbalanced because it gave you an advantage that later got balanced? HTFU.
People are still crying about their sore anuses because they thought "I want to play Front Line Assault, so I'm going to skill into Caldari Logistics" was sound and logical thinking. As if the suit requiring the Caldari Logistics skill rather than Caldari Assault was somehow an error on CCP's part. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
2083
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 16:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
99% of respec threads are about dropsuit changes.
This is because having to spend 2.5 million SP before you can start using a suit is poor game design.
Tiericide dropsuits and I bet 95% of respec threads will disappear overnight. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
860
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 16:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:And I noticed that the people that oppose a respec either don't like FotM or they think that their decisions matter. Well, I've already made a thread about my opinion of FotM, so I won't bother to repeat myself, but I have to ask people why exactly they think their decisions matter?
I mean, if I decide to use my most expensive gear, how does that decision matter? Increases my chances of winning? Too bad I don't get any better rewards from winning over losing. An empty reward if I have ever seen one.
If I had decided to spec into assault, scout, or heavy, does that decision matter? Not really, I am just one more to add to the crowd.
If I decide to use my good equipment, like my 80% nanite injector, does it reward me over using the militia variant? No, it actually penalizes me.(But that's a discussion for another thread)
I'm just wondering where everyone gets the idea that decisions matter in this stage of the game. Maybe this stuff will be different in the future, but right now decisions don't mean much of anything.
why does anything matter?
because people put value on the subject in question...
to be specific...if respecs don't matter, then that's all the more reason not to have them... |
Viktor Zokas
High-Damage
350
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
Didn't read. Just wanted to post in another annoying respec thread. Hi! |
Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
417
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
If respecs were offered they should only be available until 1.5mil, the 500k starter is enough to spec into a weapon of your choice, but you don't really know if its for you until 1mil in, blueberries should be given an opportunity, after that your descions stick!! |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
180
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
I agree, there have been too many threads about aim assist. Lets all get back to this subject already. Good to see things are slowly getting back to normal here. ;) |
RKKR
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
362
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:this stage of the game.
CCP ended their beta-phase too soon and finally changing/implementing stuff after their beta-phase wasn't a good move either. No-one has a clue what CCP is planning with DUST 514 and CCP probably doesn't either.
There is no point in respeccing if things keep changing at this rate and I gave up about caring untill CCP won't share more info. That's all that needs to be said for now, CCP it's your move now.
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xLT Green
Damage Core corp. The Superpowers
27
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Posted - 2013.09.12 17:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
In my opinion in not ready for a respec and don't really want one. If one where to happen I wouldn't cry about it . I have 11 mil sp I rarely spend sp without crunching the numbers or talking to a corp mate about what I'm doing. Also think what the next thing in going to get is be for I have the sp, then I rationalize if it will help or flop. Not saying I don't like wasting sp on needles things like PC or Sr and active scanners (witch are amazing)but I always put thought into what I need over what I want . Just be smart with your sp build you core before getting another proto or new weapons.use your head |
Toby Flenderson
research lab The Superpowers
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:99% of respec threads are about dropsuit changes.
This is because having to spend 2.5 million SP before you can start using a suit is poor game design.
Tiericide dropsuits and I bet 95% of respec threads will disappear overnight.
You can actually skill into them with like 500k or something. That's when you start using racial suits. You use them while you earn SP to get the stronger advanced suit and even more to reach the assault. This is great game design.
Poor game design is giving out the top tier builds to start with. |
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Toby Flenderson
research lab The Superpowers
26
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
xLT Green wrote:In my opinion in not ready for a respec and don't really want one. If one where to happen I wouldn't cry about it . I have 11 mil sp I rarely spend sp without crunching the numbers or talking to a corp mate about what I'm doing. Also think what the next thing in going to get is be for I have the sp, then I rationalize if it will help or flop. Not saying I don't like wasting sp on needles things like PC or Sr and active scanners (witch are amazing)but I always put thought into what I need over what I want . Just be smart with your sp build you core before getting another proto or new weapons.use your head
If people thought this way then respec threads would be far less common. I completely agree. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
1230
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
Toby Flenderson wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:99% of respec threads are about dropsuit changes.
This is because having to spend 2.5 million SP before you can start using a suit is poor game design.
Tiericide dropsuits and I bet 95% of respec threads will disappear overnight. You can actually skill into them with like 500k or something. That's when you start using racial suits. You use them while you earn SP to get the stronger advanced suit and even more to reach the assault. This is great game design. Poor game design is giving out the top tier builds to start with.
But when the game is still being perfected why should that 2.5 million someone spent go to waste when a huge change in gameplay takes place (new build/nerf)?
It's getting to the point I've had to go in so many directions from all the changes that I'm pretty insulated, but I'm not sure they have enough positive capital built up to pull off a HTFU mindset.
I'd rather see a more forgiving approach until the game is on more stable ground. |
The Robot Devil
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
979
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:And I noticed that the people that oppose a respec either don't like FotM or they think that their decisions matter. Well, I've already made a thread about my opinion of FotM, so I won't bother to repeat myself, but I have to ask people why exactly they think their decisions matter?
I mean, if I decide to use my most expensive gear, how does that decision matter? Increases my chances of winning? Too bad I don't get any better rewards from winning over losing. An empty reward if I have ever seen one.
If I had decided to spec into assault, scout, or heavy, does that decision matter? Not really, I am just one more to add to the crowd.
If I decide to use my good equipment, like my 80% nanite injector, does it reward me over using the militia variant? No, it actually penalizes me.(But that's a discussion for another thread)
I'm just wondering where everyone gets the idea that decisions matter in this stage of the game. Maybe this stuff will be different in the future, but right now decisions don't mean much of anything.
This argument could be use on any decision every made. No, decisions don't matter if you count the whole group. Decisions do matter when things are scaled down to the battle level or lower. My decision to equip a basic hive over an advanced could change the battle. Yes decisions matter to the grunt level but to the community they don't mean much. Again, this is like any other decision in life. The further up you go the less bottom decisions count. |
General John Ripper
The Generals EoN.
2401
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 00:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
velos ALKARI wrote:General John Ripper wrote:so your saying.... I don't matter? I'll be your big spoon bro.dont worry
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Keri Starlight
Psygod9
244
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 00:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
I believe it would be fair to give a respec to all those players who joined DUST in Uprising 1.1 or later, they never had this chance.
I put simply too many SP into infantry because of other people's suggestions. It's ok when experienced players try to help you making your life easier (get your first nanohive, AR, shield extenders...), that's some good advice, but when you realize that tanks or dropships are what you really want from the game... well, you officially wasted 3 millions SP. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1942
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 01:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:Jack McReady wrote:offering a respec once all suits and weapons are done isnt a bad idea at all. it would instantly create more variation on the field (instead of everyone running around with AR in one of the current suits) and balancing could be done faster (cause you dont have to wait till enough people get SP into specific weapons to collect meaningful statistics).
This is my only exceptional reason for a respec (besides CCP restructuring things). All basic racial things need to come out before they get even more specialized with suit types (COUGH COUGH, Commando suit) Everything else, no. If you spec into something all the way, and then decide you don't like it anymore, oh well. spec'd into shields at level five because I'm an armor tanker and the wave of Massdriver 1.3 was a huge toll on my armor suit. so I had to convert it to a ****** shield suit. Now massdriver and explosives aren't present 98.6% of the time (now 76% of the time) and I don't need to stack shields on my suit anymore. Am I bitching about a respec? No, Even though I spent more than 2 million SP to get both shield skills up it was worth it not to die constantly from no skill explosive scrubs left and right. That's what I'm sure a previous poster was talking about when he said everything has a consequence.
Yup I have been preaching this for sometime now.
I hate the idea of a respect but it is necessary when they do bring out the CORE CONTENT. I have been playing a dirty gallente tanker for a few weeks now and hate it. I need my Amarr HAV |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
6196
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 01:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
I've said it before and I will continue to say it: people only fear moving away from this archaic skill system because it would bruise their ego.
It's the exact same thing as aim assist (though it could be too strong atm). People don't want to feel like others can compete with them. They want noobs to fall into pitfalls that they can't get out of. They want people to grow bored and walk away so they have less competition. They want the meta to grow stale so they can spy on their enemies with ease. They have no concern with the game growing healthily and retaining new and old players alike, they simply want to feel like their decisions matter and they are somehow superior for having managed to win the lottery and pick a descent build.
Basically, E Peens are why we can't have nice things. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
2086
|
Posted - 2013.09.13 10:05:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:Toby Flenderson wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:99% of respec threads are about dropsuit changes.
This is because having to spend 2.5 million SP before you can start using a suit is poor game design.
Tiericide dropsuits and I bet 95% of respec threads will disappear overnight. You can actually skill into them with like 500k or something. That's when you start using racial suits. You use them while you earn SP to get the stronger advanced suit and even more to reach the assault. This is great game design. Poor game design is giving out the top tier builds to start with. But when the game is still being perfected why should that 2.5 million someone spent go to waste when a huge change in gameplay takes place (new build/nerf)? It's getting to the point I've had to go in so many directions from all the changes that I'm pretty insulated, but I'm not sure they have enough positive capital built up to pull off a HTFU mindset. I'd rather see a more forgiving approach until the game is on more stable ground.
Very much agree. And non proto suits are garbage, the power differential you get is too great, I cant imagine ever running a non proto suit now... Not because I'm some eon elitist but because why would i use an adv suit when I have a proto suit that is 2-3x more powerful already? Its stupid and its pointless. |
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