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Brynjar Reko
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2013.09.10 06:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
To Our Gracious Benefactors,
My associates and I have been accepting and completing contracts for mercenary work in Molden Heath for a length of time that approaches the distinction between months and years. We have given our clones' lives repeatedly and caused no end of pain and economic damage to our assigned enemies and have often been well rewarded for it; our motives lie outside of a simple desire for more wealth, and rather lie in the realm of knowledge and fair trade. We have been completing our contracts on blind faith for far too long. True, you always pay, but how much I am to receive seems decided arbitrarily. Do you throw your ISK in the air while standing in a circle and whatever lies inside it is the battle's payout?
After considerable deliberation, my associates and I have decided upon terms to deliver to you. No longer will we work for 'voodoo contracts'; we demand a legible document that delineates how our pay is determined for any given battle so that we may better optimize our performance to meet your desires. Let us know your will and have it be done as best as our forces can perform. If you wish that the enemy be bled of finances, give us a breakdown of what percentage of enemy resources wasted will be repaid upon us. Do you wish installations be preserved in combat zones? If we were to know that we could strive to leave the combat zone better than we found it. Do you wish that, for a bonus, we eliminate the enemy's clone reserves while leaving their MCC intact? Make it known and see your will be done.
Have we not shown that we are intelligent and capable employees? Do not worry that your complex finance algorithms would be too complex for us to comprehend. We will calculate the null geodesics and combinatorics involved in the transport of a clone through a drop uplink if you pay us well enough, and that is our ultimate goal; to know how to be paid well enough.
Yours truly, Brynjar Reko
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TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
3327
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
TL;DR - I want to know how ISK payout per match is determined. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
746
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
its based on warpoint contribution
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Rains Akkadian
Cannonfodder PMC
29
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2012/12/war-and-profit/ |
Brynjar Reko
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
15
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:TL;DR - I want to know how ISK payout per match is determined.
Rains Akkadian wrote:http://dust514.com/news/blog/2012/12/war-and-profit/
Chances Ghost wrote:its based on warpoint contribution
It was less a request for throwaway terms like "A portion" or "a larger share" and more a demand for actual contracts with cold hard numbers, none of this smoke and mirrors. It wouldn't be that hard I'm sure.
It was also a call to perhaps have fluid contracts; maybe some aspects of a battle are more important from one contract to another. Perhaps battles could be differentiated and spiced by these slightly different contracts. This would come into play in interesting ways if players could put out contracts. |
Chances Ghost
Inf4m0us
746
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Brynjar Reko wrote:TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote:TL;DR - I want to know how ISK payout per match is determined. Rains Akkadian wrote:http://dust514.com/news/blog/2012/12/war-and-profit/ Chances Ghost wrote:its based on warpoint contribution
It was less a request for throwaway terms like "A portion" or "a larger share" and more a demand for actual contracts with cold hard numbers, none of this smoke and mirrors. It wouldn't be that hard I'm sure. It was also a call to perhaps have fluid contracts; maybe some aspects of a battle are more important from one contract to another. Perhaps battles could be differentiated and spiced by these slightly different contracts. This would come into play in interesting ways if players could put out contracts.
i see what your getting at
adding different varieties of contracts would add more dynamic changing gameplay on the maps as plays compete for a secondary objective. i think it would only work if it only payed out that bonus on a win though or people would just ignore the regular win cons |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
20
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP wrote:1.Base rewards GÇô Every mercenary receives basic compensation for each battle they fight. The size of the reward depends on the time you spent fighting, so joining a battle late will net you lower earnings. Value of objects destroyed in battle has no bearing on this part of the reward. 2.Team rewards GÇô The total rewards calculated from the value destroyed are split between the participating teams, with the winning team earning a larger share. Then, each participant earns a cut of the total rewards that their team received based on the time they spent in the battle. If youGÇÖre late to the party, youGÇÖll earn a smaller cut. 3.Individual rewards GÇô Finally, every participant receives a reward based on their individual contribution on the battlefield. Mercs earn war points based on their actions in the course of each battle, and the more war points you score, the higher your cut of the total payout.
So if I read that right, you get more payout, the more ISK value is lost on your side. This is because, under point 2, the value destroyed is split between both teams. In fact, this undermines teamwork, as it means that by saving a friendly tank you cost yourself ISK. Better to let the red get that swarm salvo off before you shoot him.
I agree with the OP that it would be nice to see the actual contract we are working to, with the breakdown of the amount awarded per second in battle (as per point 1), per 1ISK destroyed (point 2), and per WP earned. This would also encourage CCP to replace point 2, as it would make no sense for the hiring party to offer a contract that rewarded destruction of equipment on our own team. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
8220
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 08:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
I, _____________ hereby agree to the following terms.
1. Euthanization - By entering the Immortal Soldier Program you hereby agree to termination. Once implanted with the transfer implants you will eliminate your natural born body in a way you or your benfactor sponsoring company sees fit.
2. Final Termination - By becoming an Immortal Soldier you hereby agree that if you are found mentally unfit for continued operation as even a human being your consciousness when captured on a router will be deleted/disrupted from the buffer and your clone(s) terminated as per CONCORD Yulai Accords.
3. Yulai Accord - As an Elysian you hereby agree to the laws governing both war and Empyreans. CONCORD presides over all affairs of immortal beings and they are expected to follow all armament usage rules and weapon bans in place. While CONCORD has not specifically placed laws into action there are many expectations. All immortal beings are expected to respect sovereignty of all nations and any reason of conflict must be an orderly fashion by Yulai rules including war declarations, rules of engagement, orbital bombardments, weapon restrictions, firmware updates, hardware updates, disarmament and disposal of phased out equipment, technology equality. In return CONCORD grants all immortal beings non-loyalty status allowing them to freely contract their services with any empire or corporation seeking their services without any interference from CONCORD or the five empires recognized by the Yulai Convention.
4. Isolation - CONCORD warns that immortal soldier process is a psychological paradigm shift and highly recommends severing ties with all previous contacts and reduce contacts with non-immortals as much as possible. Animosity by non-immortals has and is still currently high due to fear, lack of respect, and bloody history carved out by Capsuleers. As such you are confined to station quarters until further notice.
5. Quarantine - Due to the exotic nature of the sleeper implant and other biological technologies until safety of the materials is ensured you will agree to be quarantined and thus will not be allowed to remove your environmentally sealed drop suit. You will not be allowed to remove your helmet and any breach of your suit will trigger the failsafe terminating the clone. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3943
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
I was almost ready to take this thread seriously, then I saw this question:
Brynjar Reko wrote:Have we not shown that we are intelligent and capable employees? Hahahahahahahaha no. No, we have not demonstrated intelligence or capability. At least the majority of us haven't.
More seriously, though, this would be awesome.
CCP have said they aren't publishing the numbers because they're constantly in flux, but why not have a visible contract for the player to read and accept? They could code it with variables that autofill with the appropriate current values so players can see what to do in order to ensure that extra payout. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:CCP have said they aren't publishing the numbers because they're constantly in flux, but why not have a visible contract for the player to read and accept? They could code it with variables that autofill with the appropriate current values so players can see what to do in order to ensure that extra payout. I like this idea, but why not take it further and vary each contract for each battle, within a certain range. On the public contracts tab you'd see something like this:
Contract type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance fee: xISK per second Performance fee: xISK per WP Destruction fee: x% of total ISK value Win bonus: +x% destruction fee Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly]
SP should be the one payout that's made according to rules that apply to each battle, as that's presumably the one thing that doesn't vary with each contract. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3944
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 09:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:CCP have said they aren't publishing the numbers because they're constantly in flux, but why not have a visible contract for the player to read and accept? They could code it with variables that autofill with the appropriate current values so players can see what to do in order to ensure that extra payout. I like this idea, but why not take it further and vary each contract for each battle, within a certain range. On the public contracts tab you'd see something like this: Contract type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance fee: xISK per second Performance fee: xISK per WP Destruction fee: x% of total ISK value Win bonus: +x% destruction fee Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] SP should be the one payout that's made according to rules that apply to each battle, as that's presumably the one thing that doesn't vary with each contract. That's one possible format, but here's another.
Contract Type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring Corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance Fee: xISK per second Destruction Fee: x% of total ISK value destroyed by team Performance Bonus: top 3 WP earners get x% bonus (or tiered bonuses for 1st - 3rd place) Performance Fee: remaining Destruction Fee after Performance Bonus divided among all team members based on WP Win Bonus: +x% total payout before Win Bonus Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:CCP have said they aren't publishing the numbers because they're constantly in flux, but why not have a visible contract for the player to read and accept? They could code it with variables that autofill with the appropriate current values so players can see what to do in order to ensure that extra payout. I like this idea, but why not take it further and vary each contract for each battle, within a certain range. On the public contracts tab you'd see something like this: Contract type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance fee: xISK per second Performance fee: xISK per WP Destruction fee: x% of total ISK value Win bonus: +x% destruction fee Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] SP should be the one payout that's made according to rules that apply to each battle, as that's presumably the one thing that doesn't vary with each contract. That's one possible format, but here's another. Contract Type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring Corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance Fee: xISK per second Destruction Fee: x% of total ISK value destroyed by team Performance Bonus: top 3 WP earners get x% bonus (or tiered bonuses for 1st - 3rd place) Performance Fee: remaining Destruction Fee after Performance Bonus divided among all team members based on WP Win Bonus: +x% total payout before Win Bonus Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] I just based my format on CCP's actual calculations. I agree that the destruction fee should be based on what the team destroys, not on everything destroyed in the battle, which is how CCP calculates it. I'm not so sure about giving a performance bonus to the top 3 alone. That would make it very hard for any infantry to get the bonus if there is a capable tanker in the field - two gunners would often get 2nd and 3rd off vehicle assists alone. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3945
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 10:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:CCP have said they aren't publishing the numbers because they're constantly in flux, but why not have a visible contract for the player to read and accept? They could code it with variables that autofill with the appropriate current values so players can see what to do in order to ensure that extra payout. I like this idea, but why not take it further and vary each contract for each battle, within a certain range. On the public contracts tab you'd see something like this: Contract type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance fee: xISK per second Performance fee: xISK per WP Destruction fee: x% of total ISK value Win bonus: +x% destruction fee Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] SP should be the one payout that's made according to rules that apply to each battle, as that's presumably the one thing that doesn't vary with each contract. That's one possible format, but here's another. Contract Type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring Corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance Fee: xISK per second Destruction Fee: x% of total ISK value destroyed by team Performance Bonus: top 3 WP earners get x% bonus (or tiered bonuses for 1st - 3rd place) Performance Fee: remaining Destruction Fee after Performance Bonus divided among all team members based on WP Win Bonus: +x% total payout before Win Bonus Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] I just based my format on CCP's actual calculations. I agree that the destruction fee should be based on what the team destroys, not on everything destroyed in the battle, which is how CCP calculates it. I'm not so sure about giving a performance bonus to the top 3 alone. That would make it very hard for any infantry to get the bonus if there is a capable tanker in the field - two gunners would often get 2nd and 3rd off vehicle assists alone. You were giving every player a fixed % of destruction value. From what we've heard, the destruction value is divided based on WP earnings, NOT a fixed amount per player. Also, a lot of reports have suggested that the top 3 players are awarded a significant bonus to ISK earnings, and I've seen evidence to support that in my own playtime. If it's a very small amount, like a 3/2/1% split, then the remaining 94% is divided by WP earnings, it shouldn't give too big an advantage. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
305
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:CCP have said they aren't publishing the numbers because they're constantly in flux, but why not have a visible contract for the player to read and accept? They could code it with variables that autofill with the appropriate current values so players can see what to do in order to ensure that extra payout. I like this idea, but why not take it further and vary each contract for each battle, within a certain range. On the public contracts tab you'd see something like this: Contract type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance fee: xISK per second Performance fee: xISK per WP Destruction fee: x% of total ISK value Win bonus: +x% destruction fee Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] SP should be the one payout that's made according to rules that apply to each battle, as that's presumably the one thing that doesn't vary with each contract. That's one possible format, but here's another. Contract Type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring Corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance Fee: xISK per second Destruction Fee: x% of total ISK value destroyed by team Performance Bonus: top 3 WP earners get x% bonus (or tiered bonuses for 1st - 3rd place) Performance Fee: remaining Destruction Fee after Performance Bonus divided among all team members based on WP Win Bonus: +x% total payout before Win Bonus Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] I just based my format on CCP's actual calculations. I agree that the destruction fee should be based on what the team destroys, not on everything destroyed in the battle, which is how CCP calculates it. I'm not so sure about giving a performance bonus to the top 3 alone. That would make it very hard for any infantry to get the bonus if there is a capable tanker in the field - two gunners would often get 2nd and 3rd off vehicle assists alone.
When I have capable gunners, I usually come third :( those assists and vehicle kill assists rack up quickly. |
Ryme Intrinseca
Seraphim Auxiliaries
21
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 11:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Ryme Intrinseca wrote: I like this idea, but why not take it further and vary each contract for each battle, within a certain range. On the public contracts tab you'd see something like this:
Contract type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance fee: xISK per second Performance fee: xISK per WP Destruction fee: x% of total ISK value Win bonus: +x% destruction fee Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly]
SP should be the one payout that's made according to rules that apply to each battle, as that's presumably the one thing that doesn't vary with each contract.
That's one possible format, but here's another. Contract Type: [Ambush/Skirmish/Domination] Hiring Corp: [NPC corp] Location: [Planet and district] Appearance Fee: xISK per second Destruction Fee: x% of total ISK value destroyed by team Performance Bonus: top 3 WP earners get x% bonus (or tiered bonuses for 1st - 3rd place) Performance Fee: remaining Destruction Fee after Performance Bonus divided among all team members based on WP Win Bonus: +x% total payout before Win Bonus Salvage: x% chance Meta rating: [Lucrative/Generous/Average/Ungenerous/Miserly] I just based my format on CCP's actual calculations. I agree that the destruction fee should be based on what the team destroys, not on everything destroyed in the battle, which is how CCP calculates it. I'm not so sure about giving a performance bonus to the top 3 alone. That would make it very hard for any infantry to get the bonus if there is a capable tanker in the field - two gunners would often get 2nd and 3rd off vehicle assists alone. You were giving every player a fixed % of destruction value. From what we've heard, the destruction value is divided based on WP earnings, NOT a fixed amount per player. Also, a lot of reports have suggested that the top 3 players are awarded a significant bonus to ISK earnings, and I've seen evidence to support that in my own playtime. If it's a very small amount, like a 3/2/1% split, then the remaining 94% is divided by WP earnings, it shouldn't give too big an advantage. I was going on the devblog I quoted above, these being the relevant sections:
CCP wrote:2.Team rewards GÇô The total rewards calculated from the value destroyed are split between the participating teams, with the winning team earning a larger share. Then, each participant earns a cut of the total rewards that their team received based on the time they spent in the battle. If youGÇÖre late to the party, youGÇÖll earn a smaller cut. 3.Individual rewards GÇô Finally, every participant receives a reward based on their individual contribution on the battlefield. Mercs earn war points based on their actions in the course of each battle, and the more war points you score, the higher your cut of the total payout. I read this as saying that the allocation of 'team rewards' is based on something like
1/n of total value destroyed*time in battle*win/loss multiplier
and there is then a separate calculation that gives 'individual rewards' based on WP, which does not take into account value destroyed (as that is not mentioned in the individual rewards section). But as it also says 'the more war points you score, the higher your cut of the total payout', I suppose it is possible that the individual reward is another function to be entered into the value destroyed calculation, which then looks something like
1/n of total value destroyed*time in battle*win/loss multiplier*WP multiplier
In any case, the devblog is ambiguous.
As for the top three bonus, that's not mentioned in the devblog, though I suppose it could be part of the 'individual rewards' calculation. I don't have a problem with it if the numbers are small (3%, 2%, 1%, as you suggest) and total WP is the main determinant of ISK payout. But I wouldn't want to see guys in 4th and 5th getting 1000+WP but ISK payout only around the same level as the players in 15th and 16th. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3948
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 19:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ryme Intrinseca wrote:I was going on the devblog I quoted above, these being the relevant sections: CCP wrote:2.Team rewards GÇô The total rewards calculated from the value destroyed are split between the participating teams, with the winning team earning a larger share. Then, each participant earns a cut of the total rewards that their team received based on the time they spent in the battle. If youGÇÖre late to the party, youGÇÖll earn a smaller cut. 3.Individual rewards GÇô Finally, every participant receives a reward based on their individual contribution on the battlefield. Mercs earn war points based on their actions in the course of each battle, and the more war points you score, the higher your cut of the total payout. I read this as saying that the allocation of 'team rewards' is based on something like 1/n of total value destroyed*time in battle*win/loss multiplier and there is then a separate calculation that gives 'individual rewards' based on WP, which does not take into account value destroyed (as that is not mentioned in the individual rewards section). But as that section also says 'the more war points you score, the higher your cut of the total payout', I suppose it is possible that the individual reward is another function to be entered into the value destroyed calculation, which then looks something like 1/n of total value destroyed*time in battle*win/loss multiplier*WP multiplier In any case, the devblog is ambiguous. As for the top three bonus, that's not mentioned in the devblog, though I suppose it could be part of the 'individual rewards' calculation. I don't have a problem with it if its weighting is small (3%, 2%, 1%, as you suggest) and total WP is the main determinant of 'performance-related pay'. But I wouldn't want to see guys in 4th and 5th getting 1000+WP but ISK payout only around the same level as the players in 15th and 16th. Point 2 that you quoted doesn't say what you, personally get. It says how the total payout value is calculated. Winning team has a larger share of the destruction value applied on their side, and losers get the rest. Then that result is divided between players on the team based on their WP earnings.
That's how I read it based on the parts I put in bold. |
Brynjar Reko
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 19:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Point 2 that you quoted doesn't say what you, personally get. It says how the total payout value is calculated. Winning team has a larger share of the destruction value applied on their side, and losers get the rest. Then that result is divided between players on the team based on their WP earnings.
That's how I read it based on the parts I put in bold.
I believe it is based on time spent in battle, rather than specific WP earnings. Or at least that is what that 2nd Point's writing would have me believe.
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3949
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Brynjar Reko wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: Point 2 that you quoted doesn't say what you, personally get. It says how the total payout value is calculated. Winning team has a larger share of the destruction value applied on their side, and losers get the rest. Then that result is divided between players on the team based on their WP earnings.
That's how I read it based on the parts I put in bold.
I believe it is based on time spent in battle, rather than specific WP earnings. Or at least that is what that 2nd Point's writing would have me believe. As Ryme mentioned, it's pretty ambiguous, but it reads like there's a lot of crossover between those two points, so it's easy to take it either way. |
BARDAS
DUST University Ivy League
455
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Would be interesting to have a "negotiation" skill that ups your ISK payout per match by a increasing %. Make the skill a huge SP sink also. |
First Prophet
Unkn0wn Killers
1023
|
Posted - 2013.09.10 20:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have read and agree to the terms and conditions. |
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