DUST Search - 3 engagements & a question about the role of the HMG...

Master Jaraiya wrote:

ladwar wrote:

Master Jaraiya wrote:

ladwar wrote:

yes and your details is very lacking on how they came about. 35m is outside of the effective range of HMGs. AR are a high DPS accurate weapon. HMG are higher DPS but spread fire weapons so 5-12m is where you want most of your engagements to be at to make the most effective use of you weapon. closer then that and your going into shotgun and knife ranges and farther is the AR and other weapons.

I really don't know where you get your numbers. 35m is not outside the effective range of HMGs. It's actually the HMGs optimal range! That's where most of my kills are at.

Seriously OP, don't listen to this guy. 5-12 m engagements will get you out-strafed and killed repeatedly. 5-12m is also the perfect range to lose to a shotgun.

I seriously do not know what game this guy is playing.

this is why heavies are crying for a buff, even you. thanks for adding in your support.

Seriously, GTFO!

I'm not crying for any kind of buff. I'm doing great since 1.4, I just want some variety. I'm tired of the Amarr Heavy.

I have 12 mil SP dedicated to being a Heavy. Been playing Heavy since Chromosome.

If you feel comfortable trying to be a Heavy the way you just described, by all means carry on. Just pray you never see me on the battlefield because I will crush you.

EDIT: I went and found this just for you Ladwar.

CCP Remnant wrote:

The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible.

This was Uprising 1.0 before the HMG received a range increase and damage buff! So tell me how does your foot taste?

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Apison Valusgeffen THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED 8	Posted - 2013.09.10 05:31:00 - [1] - Quote I run the advanced Sentinel suit, the "A/1-Series" variant. Armor upgrade is at level 5. Shield upgrade is at level 4. Armor plating and Armor repair are both at level 5. I equip 1 Complex Armor Repairer along with 1 Complex Armor Plate and 1 Enhanced Armor Plate. Shield is at 486 HP, Armor is at 776 HP so that's my defense. On the offensive side I carry the MH-82 HMG. I have 1 Complex Damage Module equipped and my HMG Proficiency is at level 4. I've lost 3 different engagements with this set-up. Each of these were almost identical, 1 on 1, no one else firing at me or him, kind of a come around the corner, surprise and start shooting at virtually the same time type scenario. I know they weren't Heavy suits, but other than that I can't swear to exactly what kind of suits I faced each time as I was more concerned with what weapon they were using and the distance between us. I did notice however that in these 3 encounters the suits were in the advanced level, the same as mine, the "Series" variant (no Protos). The first was against a Proto weapon Duvolle AR. It melted my full shields and armor, outgunning my MH-82 at 17 meters. The other 2 encounters were both GEK-38s. The first GEK got me at a distance of 35 meters, and the last one at 14 meters. Again, I don't remember exactly what suit they were running, no knowledge of how many or what level of damage mods, proficiency level, sharpshooter level, etc. My honest question is: Is this what should happen? And this isn't QQing, I honestly want to know, should an AR be outgunning an HMG at these distances, and if so, then what is the optimal distance for the HMG to be effective? Is it the final 3% damage from my proficiency that will make the difference? Is that what I need? Should I switch to my Advanced Basic Heavy to stack damage mods and lose 1 of the low protection slots? I could drop the repper and add another armor plate but I don't always have a Logibro around me, and I figured as a Heavy with an HMG against an AR I could survive these encounters and have time to find cover and heal up. I'd like to know from a Dev if possible, is there a logical answer to this? Is there something I'm missing?
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1538	Posted - 2013.09.10 05:38:00 - [2] - Quote yes and your details is very lacking on how they came about. 35m is outside of the effective range of HMGs. AR are a high DPS accurate weapon. HMG are higher DPS but spread fire weapons so 5-12m is where you want most of your engagements to be at to make the most effective use of you weapon. closer then that and your going into shotgun and knife ranges and farther is the AR and other weapons.
Apison Valusgeffen THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED 8	Posted - 2013.09.10 05:46:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks for the info and response. And my details were lacking on how what came about?
Thurak1 Psygod9 158	Posted - 2013.09.10 06:02:00 - [4] - Quote yep hmg is so situational its almost useless. I use a duvol on my heavy suit these days.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 722	Posted - 2013.09.10 06:14:00 - [5] - Quote ladwar wrote: yes and your details is very lacking on how they came about. 35m is outside of the effective range of HMGs. AR are a high DPS accurate weapon. HMG are higher DPS but spread fire weapons so 5-12m is where you want most of your engagements to be at to make the most effective use of you weapon. closer then that and your going into shotgun and knife ranges and farther is the AR and other weapons. I really don't know where you get your numbers. 35m is not outside the effective range of HMGs. It's actually the HMGs optimal range! That's where most of my kills are at. Seriously OP, don't listen to this guy. 5-12 m engagements will get you out-strafed and killed repeatedly. 5-12m is also the perfect range to lose to a shotgun. I seriously do not know what game this guy is playing.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1539	Posted - 2013.09.10 06:20:00 - [6] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: ladwar wrote: yes and your details is very lacking on how they came about. 35m is outside of the effective range of HMGs. AR are a high DPS accurate weapon. HMG are higher DPS but spread fire weapons so 5-12m is where you want most of your engagements to be at to make the most effective use of you weapon. closer then that and your going into shotgun and knife ranges and farther is the AR and other weapons. I really don't know where you get your numbers. 35m is not outside the effective range of HMGs. It's actually the HMGs optimal range! That's where most of my kills are at. Seriously OP, don't listen to this guy. 5-12 m engagements will get you out-strafed and killed repeatedly. 5-12m is also the perfect range to lose to a shotgun. I seriously do not know what game this guy is playing. this is why heavies are crying for a buff, even you. thanks for adding in your support.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 722	Posted - 2013.09.10 06:28:00 - [7] - Quote ladwar wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: ladwar wrote: yes and your details is very lacking on how they came about. 35m is outside of the effective range of HMGs. AR are a high DPS accurate weapon. HMG are higher DPS but spread fire weapons so 5-12m is where you want most of your engagements to be at to make the most effective use of you weapon. closer then that and your going into shotgun and knife ranges and farther is the AR and other weapons. I really don't know where you get your numbers. 35m is not outside the effective range of HMGs. It's actually the HMGs optimal range! That's where most of my kills are at. Seriously OP, don't listen to this guy. 5-12 m engagements will get you out-strafed and killed repeatedly. 5-12m is also the perfect range to lose to a shotgun. I seriously do not know what game this guy is playing. this is why heavies are crying for a buff, even you. thanks for adding in your support. Seriously, GTFO! I'm not crying for any kind of buff. I'm doing great since 1.4, I just want some variety. I'm tired of the Amarr Heavy. I have 12 mil SP dedicated to being a Heavy. Been playing Heavy since Chromosome. If you feel comfortable trying to be a Heavy the way you just described, by all means carry on. Just pray you never see me on the battlefield because I will crush you.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1539	Posted - 2013.09.10 06:48:00 - [8] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: ladwar wrote: Master Jaraiya wrote: ladwar wrote: yes and your details is very lacking on how they came about. 35m is outside of the effective range of HMGs. AR are a high DPS accurate weapon. HMG are higher DPS but spread fire weapons so 5-12m is where you want most of your engagements to be at to make the most effective use of you weapon. closer then that and your going into shotgun and knife ranges and farther is the AR and other weapons. I really don't know where you get your numbers. 35m is not outside the effective range of HMGs. It's actually the HMGs optimal range! That's where most of my kills are at. Seriously OP, don't listen to this guy. 5-12 m engagements will get you out-strafed and killed repeatedly. 5-12m is also the perfect range to lose to a shotgun. I seriously do not know what game this guy is playing. this is why heavies are crying for a buff, even you. thanks for adding in your support. Seriously, GTFO! I'm not crying for any kind of buff. I'm doing great since 1.4, I just want some variety. I'm tired of the Amarr Heavy. I have 12 mil SP dedicated to being a Heavy. Been playing Heavy since Chromosome. If you feel comfortable trying to be a Heavy the way you just described, by all means carry on. Just pray you never see me on the battlefield because I will crush you. EDIT: I went and found this just for you Ladwar. CCP Remnant wrote: The HMG's optimal range is up to 30m and max. effective range caps out at 50m. (This is currently a hard cap - all weapons stop doing any damage beyond their max range - but we're going to be fixing this soon. Like soon soon, not SOON(tm).) What it needs is not a damage buff (it kills just fine) but a gentler damage falloff curve so that it can be used as an effective suppression weapon in the 50-70m range. As an attacker, right now it's too easy to shrug off the hits and close the gap between yourself and the person wielding the HMG so that's something I'd like to address as soon as possible. This was Uprising 1.0 before the HMG received a range increase and damage buff! So tell me how does your foot taste? lol, weapons ranges=/= best range in the HMG case and you should know that by know.
Master Jaraiya Ultramarine Corp 722	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:14:00 - [9] - Quote ladwar wrote: lol, weapons ranges=/= best range in the HMG case and you should know that by know. Wow, you're really going to try to argue the point with me still? Seriously? LOL Just accept the fact that you were wrong bro. It's really ok! I've done it, you can too!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Top Men. 1298	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:46:00 - [10] - Quote To answer the question, an advanced sentinel you almost have the right idea. but right now I'm guessing that you lack the maxed PG/CPU skills. you need them as a fatty, desperately. Ideal fit for your sentinel should focus on survivability over damage output. I recommend two complex armor plates, one rep, MH-82 HMG, complex Shield extender x1 as the gold standard you should go for.if you have CPU/PG left over get a flux nade. sidearm should at all times be considered optional. I run a prototype fatsuit, and I've survived being hit by a fast-moving LAV since 1.4 went live. then blew his ass off with my forge. My first engagement in 1.4 involved five dead red dots in 1v1 all in a row within the first ninety seconds of a match until they got smart and came at me as a group. The HMG is still a beast inside 30m.

ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1540	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:48:00 - [11] - Quote Master Jaraiya wrote: ladwar wrote: lol, weapons ranges=/= best range in the HMG case and you should know that by know. Wow, you're really going to try to argue the point with me still? Seriously? LOL Just accept the fact that you were wrong bro. It's really ok! I've done it, you can too! i am never wrong ever
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1541	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:52:00 - [12] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I run a prototype fatsuit, and I've survived being hit by a fast-moving LAV since 1.4 went live. my scout suit survived being hit by a fast-moving LAV since 1.4 went live.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Top Men. 1298	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:54:00 - [13] - Quote ladwar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I run a prototype fatsuit, and I've survived being hit by a fast-moving LAV since 1.4 went live. my scout suit survived being hit by a fast-moving LAV since 1.4 went live. isn't it nice to not be automatically roadkill when touched?
Bettie Boop 2100190003 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 138	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:56:00 - [14] - Quote Once in a while Ill pull out a HMG and when I do, I fill my suit up on damage mods. With the "auto aim"/"aim bot" making ARs easy mode currently the best HMG users can hope for is killing as quickly as possible. More damage per bullet means melting your enemies faster, which leads to taking less damage. The best thing I can suggest is play with a squad that works together. Having 3 ARs, a HMG, a MD, and another weapon of almost any kind makes getting the HMG into position much easier. Play with a group thats willing to help feed you raspberries, the stair wells in the new maps are amazing they put enemies at almost perfect engagement range.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 1541	Posted - 2013.09.10 07:56:00 - [15] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: ladwar wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: I run a prototype fatsuit, and I've survived being hit by a fast-moving LAV since 1.4 went live. my scout suit survived being hit by a fast-moving LAV since 1.4 went live. isn't it nice to not be automatically roadkill when touched? i should of died... i put no plates or extenders on it and was standing on flat ground staring at the LAV because i ran out of ammo and it was going full speed.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 382	Posted - 2013.09.10 08:39:00 - [16] - Quote Apison Valusgeffen wrote: I run the advanced Sentinel suit, the "A/1-Series" variant. Armor upgrade is at level 5. Shield upgrade is at level 4. Armor plating and Armor repair are both at level 5. I equip 1 Complex Armor Repairer along with 1 Complex Armor Plate and 1 Enhanced Armor Plate. Shield is at 486 HP, Armor is at 776 HP so that's my defense. On the offensive side I carry the MH-82 HMG. I have 1 Complex Damage Module equipped and my HMG Proficiency is at level 4. The "serious" heavy suit users will be asking why are you using the Adv Sentinel over the Adv Basic Heavy Frame? Damage mod stacking is important and even with stacking penalties a second helps. With that out of the way I only use the Dren Sentinel. Between the inane suit bonuses and lousy slot layout the Amar Sentinel is junk. The Devs will get around to them sooner or later. Pre 1.4 my preference was the Boundless. Generally hugging cover to either surprise them entering my zone of fire or walking the corner. With post 1.4 I don't know how you avoid overheating the MH-82. Apison Valusgeffen wrote: My honest question is: Is this what should happen? And this isn't QQing, I honestly want to know, should an AR be outgunning an HMG at these distances, and if so, then what is the optimal distance for the HMG to be effective? Yes and "There is no range for that." People who call this game AR 514 aren't joking. My limited successes with the HMG were either running in a grouped squad or mobbed up with blue-dots defending in a Domination.
Apison Valusgeffen THIRD EARTH INCORPORATED 9	Posted - 2013.09.10 17:24:00 - [17] - Quote Thanks for all of the responses even the ones that seem wrong based on the evidence given but are "never wrong" whatever that means . And don't get me wrong, I've had some success with the HMG. This post was more about those few situations that seemed to play out highly illogically: Those few that leave you holding the controller saying, "There is no way that should have just happened!" And the Sentinel/Basic decision is ISK effective based. I still run the Basic from time to time. It's just very expensive. I skilled into the Proto Basic before I even got the advanced Sentinel, and I've run both high damage and high protection fits based on opinions I've read from both camps. I've lived long enough to realize that there is always someone out there who knows different stuff than you do on any subject, so again I appreciate all the input/suggestions. I do have some Boundless HMG fits and I do notice the killing power difference over the MH-82. But there again, very expensive gun to lose in battle. I'm just trying to optimize what I have and put together a suit that gives me the most bang for my buck. That said however, I am working on that CPU/PG to put together an all Proto/Complex mod fit. You know... for special occasions. Speaking of which, anyone care to share their secrets regarding their favorite Heavy/HMG fits? I'm always looking for ideas to experiment with...


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