DUST Search - [FEEDBACK] CCP - The new Laser rifle / AA related

Vell0cet wrote:

The LR still has issues. It's viable now, but hardly competitive. The effective range is WAY too narrow, and not far enough. You missed a few major cons for the LR:

1. It creates a huge f*cking beam that points to your location for everyone on the map to see, it's like a neon "gank/snipe me" sign.
2. It requires you to pop your head out of cover (with the "snipe me" sign on your head) for a significant period of time while standing still to do effective damage.
3. You have to reload after every volley (since the first couple of seconds are esentially just heating the thing up to a level where it's actually effective.
4. Because of 3. Nanohives are pretty much required for your fit (and this makes being mobile difficult).
5. Because of 2 & 3, it' really easy to avoid being killed by a LR: wait for the LR to start firing, find cover and wait till they stop firing, leave cover and shoot the LR user (who is now reloading, with weapon on cool down--and possibly overheating). On the off chance they're not reloading, they'll run out of ammo on a second volley before they can do serious damage to you.
6. Damage is to shields, which means it's less balanced and more situational than something like the AR with more even damage distribution curve.

Where it really shines is taking out guys running out in the open while you have cover to hide behind when reloading. Unfortunately most other light weapons excel at this too.

I can honestly live with all of the LR's shortcomings (it's what makes the weapon feel unique after-all). What it needs though is an increase to the ADS zoom and a sharpshooter skill that will let it hit out to 115-120ish meters when maxed out. This will give it the ability to out-range other mid-range weapons (especially the TAC AR) which don't have nearly as many drawbacks.

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KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 910	Posted - 2013.09.08 22:36:00 - [1] - Quote The laser rifle. I first have to say im proud of all of you since i haven't seen any recent thread saying the laser rifle is OP. Even if the truth is, the laser rifle has been seriously improved. Very mature of all of you. This is a post from my behalf explaining why even if the AIM ASSIST gets removed,someday, the Laser rifle should still get a little AA at longer ranges.Also why the Laser rifle is agreat weapon, and thankfully , not OP. 1)A Mid longed ranged weapon WITHOUT the ability to spray, and WITHOUT an aiming sight is just demented.I dont know what CCP was thinking when they removed it,but im glad its back. Even With sight it might be troublesome to hit targets far away, but thats where skill gets kicks in and some AA too LOL. 2)The Heat: The feedback damage , even if massive, maintains the weapon in the specialized area. You cant just USE any dropsuit to fully utilize the laser rifle.You must be amarr, You must have at least amarr assault Lv 3 and LAser rifle lv 4. Its not a equip and get kills type of weapon,and it does require caution from its user since feedback damage is a Lot even for an Amarr suit. PLUS if the feedback damage kicks in ,you are unable tod do ANYTHING for a period of time, say wanna run? no, shoot? no, change weapons? no , use nanos? no..etc... 3)The Distance:The optimal range for the laser rifle,is suprisingly specific.Its not a weapon that can achieve EXTREME distances,(But still long enough) and the optimal ranges vary a lot, at very close range being a useless weapon. 4)The reload speed: Its just slow for a light weapon,lets leave it at that. 5)The Aim assist: The aim assist with this weapon is a little strong i must admit, but even with a tone down IT MUST STAY.This is why: a) Its the only weapon that needs to stay on target to actually do some damage.While you could spray a little and get kills with a duvolle AR with proficiency and a damage mod,the laser rifle struggles to kill even a starter fit in the first 3 seconds.IT needs at least 4-5 seconds of continuous damage to drop a mid frame (starter fit). b) The game is very fast compared to other FPS. Mouse or DS3 Following flawlessly a fast assault at 70mts is to be quite honest almost impossible without AA.So if you cant kill with a long ranged weapons targets at long range what is the point? c)The aim assist SHOULD BE TONED DOWN OR REMOVED at Medium/close range.ITs not needed CCP.I can maintain the laser on anyone's face at medium ranges on my own and at Close range im using my SMG,like anyone that knows whats hes doing with a laser rifle.... 6)The damage: The damage has been buffed from 15 to 17. The variants,proto/adv/std do the same damage just have less heat buildup. The laser is doing decent damage yet NOT the 19+ that it did in chromosome. 7)The FoTM: Not EXACTLY a FoTM,but with the armor buffs ....seeing 500+ armor medium frames or 700+ heavies is now common.It doesnt matter how much 1337 Auto aim *** the laser rifle is, you cant still use it effectivley vs Armor based suits, that are now very common. I usually end up using my SMG more than the Laser because of this: Proto Gallante logi/Gallante assaults/Amarr Assaults/Amarr heavies/Minmatar Logi Dual tankers. Lets face it, 1.4 has been great for gallante users.and good for them. So , summarizing: PROS: -Great range for a light weapon that is NOT sniper. -At longer ranges, the laser rifle is simply the best weapon you can use, (barely beating the TAC AR and SCRAM thou) -Improved damage -A.Assits helps you do damage at longer ranges -Freakn cool design and makes me feel like the eye of Sauron while on a roof. (I CAN SEE YOU....BRRRr.r... BZZZZZZ ... TOASTY!) Cons: -Feedback damage -NEED To play Amarr assault or heavy for full efficiency (Good thing im amarr XD) -No damage increase from STD to ADV to PROTO, Making the proto variant not necessarily better... (since it costs x4 times the ELM) -Close quarters capabilities are NULL. -I cant use the overheated laser rifle to hit enemies like a Fire Red club of hate. -IT easily get out damaged by many other light weapons in the first 2-4 seconds of an engagement. -Optimal Range is too specific. So overall the Laser weapon is at a good place right now. Doing decent damage and doing its job of providing COVER fire at mid-long distances. Good job CCP, i can honestly say i think this weapon is balanced. BUT , for the last time. Do not remove the AA AT LONG RANGES on this weapon**. It does need it. Some may say that it didnt have aim assist before in chromosome and yet it was one of the most overused weapons in the game. Thats IS true. However , the need of a specific suit, a proficiency enhanced Side arm and the fact that Laser rifles dont hit as hard as before (and Damage mod stacking penalties are working), the laser rifle cannot hit suits for 1.5 seconds and kill them anymore....(so before you could just ''spray'' with it and get kills,now you just cant). Leave your thoughts below, if you think im right, i might be wrong,etcetc... Ty for your time.
Omareth Nasadra QcGOLD 37	Posted - 2013.09.08 22:39:00 - [2] - Quote never used one but i'm glad the LR is back on the battlefield and effective again, they manage to balance it without bringing back the light saber sweep it was in chromo
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 910	Posted - 2013.09.08 22:51:00 - [3] - Quote Omareth Nasadra wrote: never used one but i'm glad the LR is back on the battlefield and effective again, they manage to balance it without bringing back the light saber sweep it was in chromo It is really good. I've been using it almost exclusively lately and at first i was sincerely confused why a good weapon as this one wasnt a more common one. Then i got killed by a duvolle tac at long range, Shotgunned to death in CQ,SMg sprayed by 3 minmatars , Flux grenaded and then Mass drived to hell...etc... Then i realize the Laser rifle has way to many counters. And then i realized i have the advantage when it comes to Positioning. Being the LAST on a squad that running towards an objective covering them over their shoulders, being the douche on top of the pipes protecting an area etc... then the laser rifle is unstoppable... So the laser rifle is as Good as your positioning is, and considering how broken ''ROOFS'' are in Dust, the Laser rifle has great potential... But i guess people just dont want to use Amarr dropsuits just to use the laser too...
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2013.09.08 23:16:00 - [4] - Quote The LR still has issues. It's viable now, but hardly competitive. The effective range is WAY too narrow, and not far enough. You missed a few major cons for the LR: 1. It creates a huge f*cking beam that points to your location for everyone on the map to see, it's like a neon "gank/snipe me" sign. 2. It requires you to pop your head out of cover (with the "snipe me" sign on your head) for a significant period of time while standing still to do effective damage. 3. You have to reload after every volley (since the first couple of seconds are esentially just heating the thing up to a level where it's actually effective. 4. Because of 3. Nanohives are pretty much required for your fit (and this makes being mobile difficult). 5. Because of 2 & 3, it' really easy to avoid being killed by a LR: wait for the LR to start firing, find cover and wait till they stop firing, leave cover and shoot the LR user (who is now reloading, with weapon on cool down--and possibly overheating). On the off chance they're not reloading, they'll run out of ammo on a second volley before they can do serious damage to you. Where it really shines is taking out guys running out in the open while you have cover to hide behind when reloading. I can honestly live with all of the LR's shortcomings (it's what makes the weapon feel unique after-all). What it needs though is an increase to the ADS zoom and a sharpshooter skill that will let it hit out to 115-120ish meters when maxed out. This will give it the ability to out-range other mid-range weapons (especially the TAC AR) which don't have nearly as many drawbacks.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 1811	Posted - 2013.09.08 23:29:00 - [5] - Quote Dude the laser has been good since the start of Uprising.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 910	Posted - 2013.09.08 23:52:00 - [6] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Dude the laser has been good since the start of Uprising. MAybe, but it didnt have a aiming sight >..> For a LONG ranged weapon to NOT have aiming sight it was nerf enough. (SCrams have them, Burst and TAC AR's have them...) Plus the AA at long ranged make it another weapon entirely.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 910	Posted - 2013.09.08 23:54:00 - [7] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: The LR still has issues. It's viable now, but hardly competitive. The effective range is WAY too narrow, and not far enough. You missed a few major cons for the LR: 1. It creates a huge fcking beam that points to your location for everyone on the map to see, it's like a neon "gank/snipe me" sign. 2. It requires you to pop your head out of cover (with the "snipe me" sign on your head) for a significant period of time while standing still to do effective damage. 3. You have to reload after every volley (since the first couple of seconds are esentially just heating the thing up to a level where it's actually effective. 4. Because of 3. Nanohives are pretty much required for your fit (and this makes being mobile difficult). 5. Because of 2 & 3, it' really easy to avoid being killed by a LR: wait for the LR to start firing, find cover and wait till they stop firing, leave cover and shoot the LR user (who is now reloading, with weapon on cool down--and possibly overheating). On the off chance they're not reloading, they'll run out of ammo on a second volley before they can do serious damage to you. 6. Damage is to shields, which means it's less balanced and more situational than something like the AR with more even damage distribution curve. Where it really shines is taking out guys running out in the open while you have cover to hide behind when reloading. Unfortunately most other light weapons excel at this too. I can honestly live with all of the LR's shortcomings (it's what makes the weapon feel unique after-all). What it needs though is an increase to the ADS zoom and a sharpshooter skill that will let it hit out to 115-120ish meters when maxed out. This will give it the ability to out-range other mid-range weapons (especially the TAC AR) which don't have nearly as many drawbacks. I agree with this. You are right, but those shortcomings are what make the laser rifle so unique and no noob friendly , even with the aim assist.*
Vell0cet Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 157	Posted - 2013.09.09 00:23:00 - [8] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: I agree with this. You are right, but those shortcomings are what make the laser rifle so unique and no noob friendly , even with the aim assist. Right. I'm not arguing that CCP should eliminate these drawbacks (they give the LR its very unique feel), just that a buff to range and ADS zoom wouldn't be OP considering all of the weapon's drawbacks that competitors like the TAC-AR don't have to deal with.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 912	Posted - 2013.09.09 00:25:00 - [9] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: I agree with this. You are right, but those shortcomings are what make the laser rifle so unique and no noob friendly , even with the aim assist. Right. I'm not arguing that CCP should eliminate these drawbacks (they give the LR its very unique feel), just that a buff to range and ADS zoom wouldn't be OP considering all of the weapon's drawbacks that competitors like the TAC-AR don't have to deal with. Agreed there too. +1
Shadow Archeus OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 126	Posted - 2013.09.09 00:37:00 - [10] - Quote The optimal range is too specific....it needs to be expanded to where its competitive with ars at longer range......maybe a DMG increase per tier.....

KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 913	Posted - 2013.09.09 00:42:00 - [11] - Quote Shadow Archeus wrote: The optimal range is too specific....it needs to be expanded to where its competitive with ars at longer range......maybe a DMG increase per tier..... That could also be a viable buff for the Laser rifle without breaking it at all. +1 to you,sadly i cant edit my post anymore to include your idea, srry : /
LCB Holdings Expert Intervention Caldari State 18	Posted - 2013.09.09 00:57:00 - [12] - Quote Lasers have no recoil
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 914	Posted - 2013.09.09 00:58:00 - [13] - Quote LCB Holdings wrote: Lasers have no recoil Neither do Assault rifles.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION 720	Posted - 2013.09.09 01:38:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Dude the laser has been good since the start of Uprising. This is true actually several of our corps members have been using the LR effectively for this entire build. What is making the LR amazing right now is the auto aim which just lets you aim in a general direction and know that the weapon will lock and kill your target.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 915	Posted - 2013.09.09 01:49:00 - [15] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: True Adamance wrote: Dude the laser has been good since the start of Uprising. This is true actually several of our corps members have been using the LR effectively for this entire build. What is making the LR amazing right now is the auto aim which just lets you aim in a general direction and know that the weapon will lock and kill your target. Even if i Would believe something like Your corp looking EZ mode kills i must disagree with you ,just shooting in a general direction and getting kills, you must be confusing my dear LR with your AR. Even if the aim assist does help the Laser rifle a lot at long distances, i know as a fact that at close cuarters it does not work,not the im assist, the Laser rifle as a whole LOL. Mid range could use an AA tone down,but at long range its needed.
Echoist Fenrir's Wolves DARKSTAR ARMY 76	Posted - 2013.09.09 07:15:00 - [16] - Quote I don't understand why people think they NEED an Amarr suit just to use the Laser Rifle. I use a basic minmatar suit and I have never felt the need to use the amarr suit. Even when going up against other LR users that have the suit I've still managed to come out on top, its not the suit that helps the guns its your positioning, distance from target, and precision. Also I feel that an increased zoom would help with precision, but would hurt the gun overall since you don't have that extra peripheral vision to the sides whoch in my opinion is crucial when defending an objective or area. Lastly i would love for the sharpshooter skill to come back for the LR espicially so it could compete with those pesky TAC users.
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 941	Posted - 2013.09.09 21:48:00 - [17] - Quote Echoist wrote: I don't understand why people think they NEED an Amarr suit just to use the Laser Rifle. I use a basic minmatar suit and I have never felt the need to use the amarr suit. Even when going up against other LR users that have the suit I've still managed to come out on top, its not the suit that helps the guns its your positioning, distance from target, and precision. Also I feel that an increased zoom would help with precision, but would hurt the gun overall since you don't have that extra peripheral vision to the sides whoch in my opinion is crucial when defending an objective or area. Lastly i would love for the sharpshooter skill to come back for the LR espicially so it could compete with those pesky TAC users. Well said. BUT , thats usually you being in a better positioning or having superior gungame: lets say you are in one side and im in the other side. (I've never played vs you but:) lets suppose we BOTH have the exact same amount of skill. We are both at optimal laser rifle range and both with an ELM-7, with exactly 3 proficiency and 1 complex damage mod: We are equal, EXCEPT, i will have AT LEAST 15% LESS heat build up on my laser rifle(max 25%), and that 1.5-3 seconds of extra continious fire its what will make me come on top. Plus the amarr assault suit IS (IMO) The best assault suit, the only problem is that if you dont want to use amarr weaponry its wasting 1 bonus. But please. Max HP of all assaults(180-180), being dual tanker, 20 shield regen p/s , Insane CPU-PG level (almost logi level, the PG even MORE than some logis), Scout level stamina,etc..i could go on forever... There really ISNT a true reason NOT to use AMarr Assault if you are using laser or scrambler rifles.... -We all agree the sniper skill needs to increase the range of the LR. XD Those ARE PESKY TAC AR users... LOL
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 325	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:28:00 - [18] - Quote i liked the laser better before uprising...
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 945	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:32:00 - [19] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: i liked the laser better before uprising... We all did, but it was a little broken TBQH.... Point is, its usable again, and thats enough for me. :3
CLONE117 Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 325	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:46:00 - [20] - Quote id say barely usable.. it was decent before uprising with no sp invested into it..

KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 947	Posted - 2013.09.09 22:48:00 - [21] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: id say barely usable.. it was decent before uprising with no sp invested into it.. Nah, its just takes more SP investment, location scouting and distance measurements. But the laser is as good as evern ,just not broke. I've been doing decent with it and im just at level 3 operation :3
Sgt Buttscratch SLAPHAPPY BANDITS 733	Posted - 2013.09.09 23:23:00 - [22] - Quote I was one of the people who skilled in during 1.3, I believe there was slight buffs to the LR during then, not many people used them or understood that they were still a deadly choice. 1.4 has opened a lot of eyes, the weapon is perfroming great, it almost has the fear factor that it had in beta back, but you can avoid it now. I'm happy to see a good amount of them being used, and also happy that CCP made the effort to make sure they are once again battle worthy. For me I use it with the Gallente suit, allowing me good armor protection with high slots for dmg boosting, the Amarr suit of course will out compete the Gallente in terms of benefit, but mostly even on the battle field in all honesty. All in all I had forgot how good their supressive powers were, and glad to have them back, especially from a sci-fi aspect. Now just give us Amarr vehicles with large and small laser turrets
KING CHECKMATE TEAM SATISFACTION 950	Posted - 2013.09.10 00:39:00 - [23] - Quote I agree Sgt Buttscratch (LOL) For me,what it made me skill into it in 1.4, to be quite honest , is that the aiming sight was back.I absolutley detest the iron sight....


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