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Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 06:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Long Term Scout Direction Discussion
This particular post is not a place for current frustrations but your ideas of the directions Scouts should take. First IGÇÖm going to start off by saying that not all of us are going to agree as we have different ideas of where the scout should go and what changes should be made. If you want to only discuss or modify a certain section, they are broken up by letters for reference
A)General/Easy across the board changes
1)Scan Precision changed from 45 to 40 2)Scan Profile changed from 45 to 40 3)Scan Radius changed from 10 to 20 4)Speed Gap changed from .4+ to .7+ 5)+1 Equipment Slot 6)Reduced Fall Damage 7)Improved Stamina Mechanics (since speed has an unofficial cap)
These passive stats could also get a +/- based on racial suit Caldari= +Precision, -Stamina Gallente= +Profile, -Precision Amarr= +Radius, -Speed Minmatar= +Speed Gap, -Profile
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Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 06:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
B)Diversity of Scout Roles and Racials
One of the main things I think Scout users suffer from is the fact that scouts are extremely rigid in what they can do, there is no flexibility to create your own character, unlike the medium frames you are very much pigeon holed into a very limited set of options / builds and unlike the heavy we donGÇÖt get unique Scout exclusive content to set us apart. To accommodate all forms of scout life, I think scout roles and relevant racials should be as follows.
1) Caldari Diversionist -Debuffer --Racial Bonus ECM and ECCM Strength Increase ----Details EWAR should function off of the Precision stat, thus take high slots to improve, taking away from potential damage. To give examples of ECM equipment, the Caldari would get bonuses to equipment that would shuts off TacNet Completely (no map outlines, no vehicle call ins, no team communication), making weapons malfunction, and create false decoys to distract the enemy like fake hacking or false units. The Caldari Scout would have two Sidearm slots and no light weapon slot.
2) Amarr Harrier -High EHP Regen Tank -- Racial Bonus Duel Tank Regeneration ----Details Essentially the concept behind this is that Amarr are stuck as duel tankers, since scouts have fast shield regen and Amarr are now the armor regen race, the Amarr Scout will have the Best CPU/PG/and EHP in the scout world, his regen will be fast enough to engage enemies at a distance, survive a hit, strafe in and out of cover and be fully healed within a few seconds. This is a scout that can hold an engagement for a while but will fall apart if under high spike damage.
3) Minmatar Demolisher -Glass Cannon Speedster --Racial Bonus Extra grenade toss and count increase ----Details For levels 1, 3, and 5 Minmatar Scouts would toss an extra grenade meaning he will throw three grenades as they scatter around an area to inflict massive damage. For each level the Minmatar would also gain +2 grenade capacity per level. This will give this scout a high spike damage that he needs that requires a short exposure period. This follows Minmatar hit and run tactics without stealing any flavors that the medium suits currently occupy.
4) Gallente Assassin -Stealth Spotter ----Racial Bonus Active Scanning Recharge and Tracking. ----Details To take away the Active Scanner from the logi one of the scouts needs to get a bonus from it, since active scanners are of Gallente Origins I believe they belong here. For the Active Scanner, it will have faster cool downs and Longer Tracking, this will be good source of WPs freeing up Gallentes apparent lack of high slots for Precision modules. The Gallente being the scout with the lowest profile will also benefit most from the cloak when it does come out as well.
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Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
203
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 06:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
C)Scout Exclusives and Scout Friendly Content
CCP has made a very unique game with a lot of flexibility, the problem is that means that the most slots equates to the most power to create your own unique Merc, which isnGÇÖt bad in and of itself but as it stands scouts suits suffer from this due to its limited CPU/PG and Slots. So how heavies have special weapons scouts need special content that is either exclusive or benefits scouts more to compensate for their lack of flexibility.
Items like this would help with the more aggressive Alpha Scouts at there
1 ) Time Link
As the same suggests it uses that same body harming radioactive technology that drop uplinks use but its function is entirely different. The time link when deployed would have some given time before it warps you back where it was dropped. Before being dropped the device could have some sort of 3 stage clicker to roughly give you more or less time before being warped back, this would serve as a great ambush tool as you charge into an enemy trench get a shotgun/pistol round off, then warp back. Obviously there would be effective ranges of this device and the environment might change to where you donGÇÖt want to be warped back. Essentially this device is predicated upon how accurate your predictions on how the battle field will transgress, which goes well with how scouts have to play due to the fact that scouts speed would allow them to do a little more before they get warped. (no sp points)
2) Jump Pack
Jump packs are pretty self-explanatory itGÇÖs also less lagy than jet packs and not as silly looking (I would also be surprised if this wasnGÇÖt mentioned before). They donGÇÖt have to even go that high to be useful, also having one on your pack should make you a walking bomb should you be shot as it would be an instant death. With the scouts weight, it should be able to go higher and due to the scouts low hp the death from being shot with a jump pack is less critical than the assault who died from being shot with this jump pack. Essentially the scouts light weight and flimsy hp make the negative aspects of this much less compared to the other suits. I would image that this would also give some extra oomph to knifers who want to play jihadist as well. (no sp points)
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BARDAS
DUST University Ivy League
436
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Posted - 2013.09.07 06:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP's long-term Scout plan |
Vell0cet
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
128
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 07:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:C)Scout Exclusives and Scout Friendly Content
CCP has made a very unique game with a lot of flexibility, the problem is that means that the most slots equates to the most power to create your own unique Merc, which isnGÇÖt bad in and of itself but as it stands scouts suits suffer from this due to its limited CPU/PG and Slots. So how heavies have special weapons scouts need special content that is either exclusive or benefits scouts more to compensate for their lack of flexibility.
Items like this would help with the more aggressive Alpha Scouts at there
1 ) Time Link
As the same suggests it uses that same body harming radioactive technology that drop uplinks use but its function is entirely different. The time link when deployed would have some given time before it warps you back where it was dropped. Before being dropped the device could have some sort of 3 stage clicker to roughly give you more or less time before being warped back, this would serve as a great ambush tool as you charge into an enemy trench get a shotgun/pistol round off, then warp back. Obviously there would be effective ranges of this device and the environment might change to where you donGÇÖt want to be warped back. Essentially this device is predicated upon how accurate your predictions on how the battle field will transgress, which goes well with how scouts have to play due to the fact that scouts speed would allow them to do a little more before they get warped. (no sp points)
2) Jump Pack
Jump packs are pretty self-explanatory itGÇÖs also less lagy than jet packs and not as silly looking (I would also be surprised if this wasnGÇÖt mentioned before). They donGÇÖt have to even go that high to be useful, also having one on your pack should make you a walking bomb should you be shot as it would be an instant death. With the scouts weight, it should be able to go higher and due to the scouts low hp the death from being shot with a jump pack is less critical than the assault who died from being shot with this jump pack. Essentially the scouts light weight and flimsy hp make the negative aspects of this much less compared to the other suits. I would image that this would also give some extra oomph to knifers who want to play jihadist as well. (no sp points)
I posted something similar in this thread: Asension Cables, Jetpacks, and Nano Jump Drives. I agree that scout-centric gear would really help the scout suit. I do disagree that Jetpacks are "silly looking." They would be pretty badass and make for fun combat options with plenty of downsides to prevent them from being OP. |
X7 lion
Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc.
18
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 09:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Long Term Scout Direction Discussion
This particular post is not a place for current frustrations but your ideas of the directions Scouts should take. First IGÇÖm going to start off by saying that not all of us are going to agree as we have different ideas of where the scout should go and what changes should be made. If you want to only discuss or modify a certain section, they are broken up by letters for reference
A)General/Easy across the board changes
1)Scan Precision changed from 45 to 40 2)Scan Profile changed from 45 to 40 3)Scan Radius changed from 10 to 20 4)Speed Gap changed from .4+ to .7+ 5)+1 Equipment Slot 6)Reduced Fall Damage 7)Improved Stamina Mechanics (since speed has an unofficial cap)
These passive stats could also get a +/- based on racial suit Caldari= +Precision, -Stamina Gallente= +Profile, -Precision Amarr= +Radius, -Speed Minmatar= +Speed Gap, -Profile
personally id like to see the reduced fall damage, better stamina mechanics & a fith top right slot for my suit so i can get up to more scout mischief, but it would be a terrible idea to make different races suits have different speed caps and would supply an unfair advantage between people who chose a certain scout over another. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
207
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 16:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:C)Scout Exclusives and Scout Friendly Content
CCP has made a very unique game with a lot of flexibility, the problem is that means that the most slots equates to the most power to create your own unique Merc, which isnGÇÖt bad in and of itself but as it stands scouts suits suffer from this due to its limited CPU/PG and Slots. So how heavies have special weapons scouts need special content that is either exclusive or benefits scouts more to compensate for their lack of flexibility.
Items like this would help with the more aggressive Alpha Scouts at there
1 ) Time Link
As the same suggests it uses that same body harming radioactive technology that drop uplinks use but its function is entirely different. The time link when deployed would have some given time before it warps you back where it was dropped. Before being dropped the device could have some sort of 3 stage clicker to roughly give you more or less time before being warped back, this would serve as a great ambush tool as you charge into an enemy trench get a shotgun/pistol round off, then warp back. Obviously there would be effective ranges of this device and the environment might change to where you donGÇÖt want to be warped back. Essentially this device is predicated upon how accurate your predictions on how the battle field will transgress, which goes well with how scouts have to play due to the fact that scouts speed would allow them to do a little more before they get warped. (no sp points)
2) Jump Pack
Jump packs are pretty self-explanatory itGÇÖs also less lagy than jet packs and not as silly looking (I would also be surprised if this wasnGÇÖt mentioned before). They donGÇÖt have to even go that high to be useful, also having one on your pack should make you a walking bomb should you be shot as it would be an instant death. With the scouts weight, it should be able to go higher and due to the scouts low hp the death from being shot with a jump pack is less critical than the assault who died from being shot with this jump pack. Essentially the scouts light weight and flimsy hp make the negative aspects of this much less compared to the other suits. I would image that this would also give some extra oomph to knifers who want to play jihadist as well. (no sp points)
I posted something similar in this thread: Asension Cables, Jetpacks, and Nano Jump Drives. I agree that scout-centric gear would really help the scout suit. I do disagree that Jetpacks are "silly looking." They would be pretty badass and make for fun combat options with plenty of downsides to prevent them from being OP.
My only qualms of making it a jet pack is I don't want it to go that high or have that much freedom, CCP already has to create fake map elements to prevent sniping off of some buildings. I just see it as a quick maneuver for small scale clearance, also the lag this would cause would be tremendous.. But again I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
240
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 16:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
I like most of what you wrote. I have three problems with it.
The Caldari are the range specialists, why is their scout being limited to short-range weaponry? Rather than replacing the light weapon slot, How about taking away the grenade slot (and cpu/pg to account for the lack of a grenade slot)?
I'm also wary of the Minja's three grenade ability. That seems like it could be a bit too powerful. Perhaps the Minja's throwable range should be reduced along side the multi-grenade ability? I don't want minja's to become short range artillery when paired with a nanohive.
Edit:
Also, the fact that wearing the jumppack would lead to an insta-kill means almost no one would use it. Perhaps a sniper since they would die anyways if noticed but aren't normally in heated combat. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
208
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 16:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
X7 lion wrote:Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Long Term Scout Direction Discussion
This particular post is not a place for current frustrations but your ideas of the directions Scouts should take. First IGÇÖm going to start off by saying that not all of us are going to agree as we have different ideas of where the scout should go and what changes should be made. If you want to only discuss or modify a certain section, they are broken up by letters for reference
A)General/Easy across the board changes
1)Scan Precision changed from 45 to 40 2)Scan Profile changed from 45 to 40 3)Scan Radius changed from 10 to 20 4)Speed Gap changed from .4+ to .7+ 5)+1 Equipment Slot 6)Reduced Fall Damage 7)Improved Stamina Mechanics (since speed has an unofficial cap)
These passive stats could also get a +/- based on racial suit Caldari= +Precision, -Stamina Gallente= +Profile, -Precision Amarr= +Radius, -Speed Minmatar= +Speed Gap, -Profile
personally id like to see the reduced fall damage, better stamina mechanics & a fith top right slot for my suit so i can get up to more scout mischief, but it would be a terrible idea to make different races suits have different speed caps and would supply an unfair advantage between people who chose a certain scout over another.
different racial already have different speeds and thus speed gaps, so its already implemented, now only by race but by suit as well. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
208
|
Posted - 2013.09.07 16:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:I like most of what you wrote. I have three problems with it.
The Caldari are the range specialists, why is their scout being limited to short-range weaponry? Rather than replacing the light weapon slot, How about taking away the grenade slot (and cpu/pg to account for the lack of a grenade slot)?
I'm also wary of the Minja's three grenade ability. That seems like it could be a bit too powerful. Perhaps the Minja's throwable range should be reduced along side the multi-grenade ability? I don't want minja's to become short range artillery when paired with a nanohive.
Edit:
Also, the fact that wearing the jumppack would lead to an insta-kill means almost no one would use it. Perhaps a sniper since they would die anyways if noticed but aren't normally in heated combat.
True but not every single Caldari is necessarily a range specialists, Caldari are also known as the ECM Specialists as well. Considering that scouts can't get the same alpha damage as the medium frames and go down with one counter snipe, the utility for them having it is diminished, this is what went through my head anyways. But What you suggested is actually a good replacement though. High CPU / Low PG is also a caldari trait anyways, so that would make sense as well according to the lore.
It can reduced to 2 (+1 at lvl 1, +1 at lvl 5), but since the Minmatar is the speed tank and since speed tankig has taken a dive, the Minmatar needs options to minimal exposure, so this could be it while still having the high spike damage speedsters need.
My thougths on the jump pack were for snipers and cqc scouts, for snipers they would go into nice areas to snipe at and cqc could hug an enemy player if s/he is about to blow up taking the enemy down with him should his flank fail. Edit: Think of it as a walking grenade |
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
241
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Posted - 2013.09.07 16:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote: True but not every single Caldari is necessarily a range specialists, Caldari are also known as the ECM Specialists as well. Considering that scouts can't get the same alpha damage as the medium frames and go down with one counter snipe, the utility for them having it is diminished, this is what went through my head anyways. But What you suggested is actually a good replacement though. High CPU / Low PG is also a caldari trait anyways, so that would make sense as well according to the lore.
I feel losing the grenade is much better. Let's not forget you would be forcing the Cal Scout in to cqc where they have almost no advantage. They would lack the range buff of the Amarr, the stealth of the Gal, and the speed of the Min. In addition, any EWAR only effective in CQC would last for a set duraction and have a cool down timer. As soon as the EWAR is activated, at least one enemy is going to notice (otherwise it was a wasted use of it) and alert their team. After the EWAR's cooldown begins, the Cal Scout would then be in the same position as we are now.
Oswald Rehnquist wrote: It can reduced to 2 (+1 at lvl 1, +1 at lvl 5), but since the Minmatar is the speed tank and since speed tankig has taken a dive, the Minmatar needs options to minimal exposure, so this could be it while still having the high spike damage speedsters need.
I understand what you mean, but imagine a min scout throwing proto locus grenades or proto av nades. No suit or vehicle would stand a chance against such a barrage. How about a % increase to explosive damge (MD, RE, PM, grenades, etc.)? It would give Minnies that needed alpha damage while also giving them more versatility in how they use it.
Oswald Rehnquist wrote: My thougths on the jump pack were for snipers and cqc scouts, for snipers they would go into nice areas to snipe at and cqc could hug an enemy player if s/he is about to blow up taking the enemy down with him should his flank fail. Edit: Think of it as a walking grenade
But every scout has memories of where they dodged gun fire taking a few bullets and escaping with their life. This equipment would mean even the smallest stray bullet would end that.
If you really insist on the insta-kill mechanic, then the only thing I see that would at least make it somewhat viable is for the insta-kill to only occur after taking armor damage. This way a jumppack user could take a few hits but not many. This would also of course make gal and possibly amarr scouts despise the thing though. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
213
|
Posted - 2013.09.08 01:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:
I feel losing the grenade is much better. Let's not forget you would be forcing the Cal Scout in to cqc where they have almost no advantage. They would lack the range buff of the Amarr, the stealth of the Gal, and the speed of the Min. In addition, any EWAR only effective in CQC would last for a set duraction and have a cool down timer. As soon as the EWAR is activated, at least one enemy is going to notice (otherwise it was a wasted use of it) and alert their team. After the EWAR's cooldown begins, the Cal Scout would then be in the same position as we are now.
My goal was to make ECM something costly to run, and as it is in Eve Force Recons give up significant weapon output. Also with my desires for ECM to be something powerful and not just a gimmick, I would easily trade my light weapon slot for effective EWAR, this build is probably the most exciting to run as a sidearm scout, and is what I would main if given the option. It would also discourage GÇ£assaultsGÇ¥ from trying to play it as one if it lacked a sidearm. If I was a logibro I would be dismayed at the slayer bro functionality, I donGÇÖt want the high slot focused scout here to turn to that. But I would live if they still gave it the light weapon slot and not the grenade slot. I just donGÇÖt want it abused on the high slot scout.
Krom Ganesh wrote:
I understand what you mean, but imagine a min scout throwing proto locus grenades or proto av nades. No suit or vehicle would stand a chance against such a barrage. How about a % increase to explosive damge (MD, RE, PM, grenades, etc.)? It would give Minnies that needed alpha damage while also giving them more versatility in how they use it.
While I donGÇÖt play the speedster, I do think the aggressive scout is entirely extinct and this scout would only be effective until the grenades count ran out in which case s/he is just a giant walking target without the benefits of the other scout. Also grenade damage increase doesnGÇÖt make too much sense, if I gave the same grenade to the Amarr why would it do less damage? Initially I thought the same thing too, but the damage increase on the grenades doesnGÇÖt make much sense, plus the only thing damage would do is destroy vehicles better not players. It also wouldnGÇÖt be terrible horrible to push the boundaries of at least one of the scouts being larger than life in the game.
Krom Ganesh wrote:
But every scout has memories of where they dodged gun fire taking a few bullets and escaping with their life. This equipment would mean even the smallest stray bullet would end that.
If you really insist on the insta-kill mechanic, then the only thing I see that would at least make it somewhat viable is for the insta-kill to only occur after taking armor damage. This way a jumppack user could take a few hits but not many. This would also of course make gal and possibly amarr scouts despise the thing though
I can easily compromise on this as IGÇÖm not that attached to it, 50% armor before the Ka-boom?
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
242
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Posted - 2013.09.08 01:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
I suppose you could chalk the increased explosive damage to Minny homebrew...
Does it really make sense that a Laser rifle held by an Amarr assault will have a higher heat capacity?
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