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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
Alpha Wolf Pack
199
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was noticing that the Basic suits (the ones you skill into to unlock Logistics or Assault, for example) have similar stats to a comparable Assault suit but receive no bonuses. So, what's the point? If they're supposed to be basic all-around representations of that race, but are essentially unbonused Assault suits, why have this step?
Would it make sense to have them actually represent a mix of the Assault and Logi specialty suits by perhaps having two equipment slots? They'd still not be bonused, but they would provide a compelling gameplay choice to wear that over a bonused Assault or Logi suit. More equipment than an Assault suit but more speed/stamina (and a sidearm) than a Logi.
Now, the only group I could see affected by this would be Heavy Basic suits, since they are desired for their two high slots (vs. a Sentinel's one and more lows). |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
505
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
As interesting as your ideas are, it kind of goes against the point of the suits.
The basic suits are supposed to be the cheapo AMC Gremlin's of the DUST universe. They're designed to make you want more and better, and to not stick around in the bush leagues for too long.
I still use them on occasion because it's fun to see if you can top the match's killboard with gimp equipment, and they're dirt cheap. But I still keep what they're really for in mind.
I do wish they had a racial version of all the basic suits, though. Just so players could get a taste of the fitting/playstyle before dumping SP into it. |
Yokal Bob
Gravity Prone
EoN.
173
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
their is no point to them really. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
Alpha Wolf Pack
199
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:As interesting as your ideas are, it kind of goes against the point of the suits.
The basic suits are supposed to be the cheapo AMC Gremlin's of the DUST universe. They're designed to make you want more and better, and to not stick around in the bush leagues for too long.
I still use them on occasion because it's fun to see if you can top the match's killboard with gimp equipment, and they're dirt cheap. But I still keep what they're really for in mind.
I do wish they had a racial version of all the basic suits, though. Just so players could get a taste of the fitting/playstyle before dumping SP into it. I understand your point, but I don't necessarily see the virtue in keeping the Basic suits around just because. If their purpose is to make you want more, don't the Militia suits already do that?
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Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
818
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Think about it like this, they cost way less SP to use. So you can skill into up to level 3 and then make a choice, do you stick with the no bonus suit for less SP(also medium,light and heavy frames cost More isk then assault, logi, scout and heavy suits) or put the SP into a specialty suit that gets you some bonuses and cost less isk? |
Zekain K
Expert Intervention
Caldari State
295
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:As interesting as your ideas are, it kind of goes against the point of the suits.
The basic suits are supposed to be the cheapo AMC Gremlin's of the DUST universe. They're designed to make you want more and better, and to not stick around in the bush leagues for too long.
I still use them on occasion because it's fun to see if you can top the match's killboard with gimp equipment, and they're dirt cheap. But I still keep what they're really for in mind.
I do wish they had a racial version of all the basic suits, though. Just so players could get a taste of the fitting/playstyle before dumping SP into it. Basic suits are more expensive then the specialized suits.
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Beren Hurin
The Vanguardians
1264
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:I was noticing that the Basic suits (the ones you skill into to unlock Logistics or Assault, for example) have similar stats to a comparable Assault suit but receive no bonuses. So, what's the point? If they're supposed to be basic all-around representations of that race, but are essentially unbonused Assault suits, why have this step?
Would it make sense to have them actually represent a mix of the Assault and Logi specialty suits by perhaps having two equipment slots? They'd still not be bonused, but they would provide a compelling gameplay choice to wear that over a bonused Assault or Logi suit. More equipment than an Assault suit but more speed/stamina (and a sidearm) than a Logi.
Now, the only group I could see affected by this would be Heavy Basic suits, since they are desired for their two high slots (vs. a Sentinel's one and more lows).
I really don't get why they exist as more expensive, unbonused assault suits. I would understand more if they were less expensive than assaults. They can't come close to competing with the shield regen of skilled assaults though and therefore, aren't even useful as cheap alternatives.
It takes 2.7 million SP to get into a proto specialized suit, not worrying about core/weapon skills.
Proto basic suits are only 1.2 million.
My suggestion was to basically let basic suits become the preferred cheap pub suits by reducing their cost by 2% per level, and MLT modules' fitting cost by 5% per level. The fitting costs for MLT modules is basically their STD variant +25%, so this would make most MLT modules = basic modules except for a few cases (like plates which have less HP than STD).
So you could be running around with ADV/PRO suits in pub matches at like half the cost, but with like 25% less HP and DPS as specialist ADV/PRO suits. |
Thumb Green
Novashift
350
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:and they're dirt cheap.
What? Last time I checked the basic suits costs more than the specialized suits. |
Makuta Miserix
Better Hide R Die
164
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:and they're dirt cheap. What? Last time I checked the basic suits costs more than the specialized suits.
They do.  |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
505
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:39:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:and they're dirt cheap. What? Last time I checked the basic suits costs more than the specialized suits.
My apologies to the OP. I misinterpreted Basic suits for Militia suits. I am a moron.
On the proper topic...
I use Basic Heavy frames exclusively. The slot layout is better for the way I use it, and the Sentinel bonuses are mostly useless to me. So I figured I'd save the SP for an eventual other race of Heavy.
I would agree that once you decide to specialize, the Basic suit would lose all of its luster. |
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Maken Tosch
DUST University
Ivy League
3792
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Posted - 2013.08.28 14:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
They currently have no purpose. They are just place holders I guess.
Honestly, they should have some sort of bonus to give them some purpose. For example, if the Minmatar Scout suits get a bonus to melee and nova knife damage, then the Minmatar Light Frame suits should get a bonus to CPU and PG to help with fittings on such limited suits. That's one way of giving the basic frames some purpose.
The point here is that the skills invested into these suits are currently just a waste of SP. |
DeadlyAztec11
Red Star Jr.
EoN.
2058
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Posted - 2013.08.28 15:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Because, most of the proto basic suits look better than the Assault variants :P |
Roofer Madness
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
154
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Posted - 2013.08.28 15:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
I guess I just assumed the Basic suits would get a bonus Soon. I took mine to 3 to go Logi. I don't think I've ever even used it. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1045
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Posted - 2013.08.28 15:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have Minmatar Medium Frame 5 and Minmatar Logistics 5 but I only have Minmatar Assault 1. If I need a medium suit for something other than Logistics the basic medium is better for me. Both my sniper and swarm launcher fits are on the basic frame to gain access to the sidearm. The 5 high slots are nice when combining damage modules and shields.
They don't have much purpose if you can run the cheaper Assault suits. Eventually I plan to train all the Minmatar suits to 5 though. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Generals
EoN.
1160
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Posted - 2013.08.28 15:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Actually the basic suits are more expensive than the racial suits. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis
Alpha Wolf Pack
199
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Posted - 2013.08.28 16:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:I have Minmatar Medium Frame 5 and Minmatar Logistics 5 but I only have Minmatar Assault 1. If I need a medium suit for something other than Logistics the basic medium is better for me. Both my sniper and swarm launcher fits are on the basic frame to gain access to the sidearm. The 5 high slots are nice when combining damage modules and shields.
They don't have much purpose if you can run the cheaper Assault suits. Eventually I plan to train all the Minmatar suits to 5 though. My question to you would be why take Minmatar basic frames to V in the first place? You could have spent that in Assault suits and had the same slot layout PLUS bonuses the Assault suits give and they'd be cheaper. I get it's more sp investment, but it seems like the perks provided with bonuses and cheaper isk would make the sp investment worthwhile.
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Zeylon Rho
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2186
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Posted - 2013.08.28 18:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I have Minmatar Medium Frame 5 and Minmatar Logistics 5 but I only have Minmatar Assault 1. If I need a medium suit for something other than Logistics the basic medium is better for me. Both my sniper and swarm launcher fits are on the basic frame to gain access to the sidearm. The 5 high slots are nice when combining damage modules and shields.
They don't have much purpose if you can run the cheaper Assault suits. Eventually I plan to train all the Minmatar suits to 5 though. My question to you would be why take Minmatar basic frames to V in the first place? You could have spent that in Assault suits and had the same slot layout PLUS bonuses the Assault suits give and they'd be cheaper. I get it's more sp investment, but it seems like the perks provided with bonuses and cheaper isk would make the sp investment worthwhile.
If you went logistics, taking the basic to five would be a cheap option for running PRO assault-like-suit without skilling up Assault. |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
48
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Posted - 2013.08.29 00:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I have Minmatar Medium Frame 5 and Minmatar Logistics 5 but I only have Minmatar Assault 1. If I need a medium suit for something other than Logistics the basic medium is better for me. Both my sniper and swarm launcher fits are on the basic frame to gain access to the sidearm. The 5 high slots are nice when combining damage modules and shields.
They don't have much purpose if you can run the cheaper Assault suits. Eventually I plan to train all the Minmatar suits to 5 though. My question to you would be why take Minmatar basic frames to V in the first place? You could have spent that in Assault suits and had the same slot layout PLUS bonuses the Assault suits give and they'd be cheaper. I get it's more sp investment, but it seems like the perks provided with bonuses and cheaper isk would make the sp investment worthwhile.
I actually went to 5 in basic with this character and went for assault with my alt (level 3); it just blows my mind that you have to "waste" so much SP to go from basic 3 to assault 3...otherwise, you're stuck with weaker weapons/plates/etc. due to the lower CPU/PG. To be honest, a level 1 assault/logi/etc. should be equivalent in power to the level 3 basic, level 3 equal to the level 5 basic, and level 5 assault/logi receiving a slight boost to CPU/PG over the level 5 basic. There's just soooo much other stuff that I want to invest in instead of playing for months to reach level 5 in the specialized suits. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1046
|
Posted - 2013.08.29 00:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:I have Minmatar Medium Frame 5 and Minmatar Logistics 5 but I only have Minmatar Assault 1. If I need a medium suit for something other than Logistics the basic medium is better for me. Both my sniper and swarm launcher fits are on the basic frame to gain access to the sidearm. The 5 high slots are nice when combining damage modules and shields.
They don't have much purpose if you can run the cheaper Assault suits. Eventually I plan to train all the Minmatar suits to 5 though. My question to you would be why take Minmatar basic frames to V in the first place? You could have spent that in Assault suits and had the same slot layout PLUS bonuses the Assault suits give and they'd be cheaper. I get it's more sp investment, but it seems like the perks provided with bonuses and cheaper isk would make the sp investment worthwhile.
I trained both Minmatar Medium and Light to 5 back when it was required to unlock the specialist suits. I did not petition for a respec when it was made available. |
Obodiah Garro
Tech Guard
General Tso's Alliance
245
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Posted - 2013.08.29 00:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
basic prototype costs more than assault prototype, so erm yea wtf! |
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Aero Yassavi
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1360
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Posted - 2013.08.29 00:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
I heard they will be giving bonuses to the basic suits,
also I agree that basic suits should have different fitting more representative of a "generalist," your typical jack of all trades master of none. To do this though they may need to adjust the Assault suit to be more assault focused (maybe a second grenade slot or something). |
itsmellslikefish
DIOS X. II
Top Men.
184
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Posted - 2013.08.29 01:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Basic protos cost less sp than assult protos. |
Hyuan BubblePOP
Uber Wanabes
1
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Posted - 2013.08.29 01:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
my basic adv/pro heavy eat up pro Failtinels and commandonts for breakfast |
Sgt Kirk
SyNergy Gaming
EoN.
1359
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Posted - 2013.08.29 02:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
They cost more ISK but the trade off is that it cost less SP.
Example, I wouldn't mind getting the advanced Minmatar assault for a secondary for fun suit but there's no way I'm wasting half a million to get there plus I don't care too much for the bonus.
Oh, sweet. There's a Basic version that only cost 27.K SP. |
Bittersteel the Bastard
WarRavens
League of Infamy
371
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Posted - 2013.08.29 02:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:I heard they will be giving bonuses to the basic suits,
also I agree that basic suits should have different fitting more representative of a "generalist," your typical jack of all trades master of none. To do this though they may need to adjust the Assault suit to be more assault focused (maybe a second grenade slot or something).
Save the second grenade slot for a grenadier class. I'd give assault suits an inherent 5% damage increase on all weapons. |
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