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Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
12
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Posted - 2013.08.25 01:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
Not sure if there's been a thread about this yet, but yea basically what the title says. Sometimes while aiming at a stationary target (a sniper for example), I'll line up my shot, get my reticle red....and then I miss. Neither direct nor splash damage is done. It's like the shot just went through them. I'd really like/appreciate a Dev response on this, at least to know what's causing the problem. |
CLONE117
Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore
185
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Posted - 2013.08.25 01:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
this as happened when im trying to counter snipe witha tac sniper in any case the red dot hasnt lied an enemy is ther but...the player is using a glitch to here the enemy player is in a certain type of cover and all ur shots cant get to them but they but they can attack u... ive done this before by placing my self between 2 crates and sniping snipers and laughing as all their shots hit the crates lol.
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Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
12
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Posted - 2013.08.25 01:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Um....what? Ignoring the blatant disregard for how language works, I don't believe you're referring to the same thing as me. In the situation I'm talking about, I've been able to just move slightly, line up the shot, and then hit them. It's just a really weird random infrequent thing. |
lithkul devant
Legions of Infinite Dominion
39
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Posted - 2013.08.25 03:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Not sure if there's been a thread about this yet, but yea basically what the title says. Sometimes while aiming at a stationary target (a sniper for example), I'll line up my shot, get my reticle red....and then I miss. Neither direct nor splash damage is done. It's like the shot just went through them. I'd really like/appreciate a Dev response on this, at least to know what's causing the problem.
My response to this is I don't care, that your scoping for your forge gun doesn't work, I wish they would take all the sightings off forge guns and burn them. Why might you ask, because the forge gun has such epic AOE power that it is being used as a sniper rifle that is able to 1 shot a heavy, about to 3 shot a tank, 2 shot a drop ship. The trail of the FG bullet is also very hard to follow, you should get every disadvantage possible when trying to do long range shots on anything smaller then an LAV. The forge gun also has no fall off on damage, it is a close quarters shotgun from hell able to just kill anyone in one hit often times with just splash damage. It is able to hit people medium and long range, including ranges of up to and past 200+ meters.
In short, I don't care that the forge gun your using has some messed up sights, it's an OP weapon for many other reasons, everyone knows it is and it is becoming much more obvious that it and the Mass Driver are the next flavors of the month. I'm sure soon enough you'll be more effective at sniping people with the forge gun, then snipers are at doing their job. |
Arcturis Vanguard
Pure Innocence. EoN.
72
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Posted - 2013.08.25 03:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:Summ Dude wrote:Not sure if there's been a thread about this yet, but yea basically what the title says. Sometimes while aiming at a stationary target (a sniper for example), I'll line up my shot, get my reticle red....and then I miss. Neither direct nor splash damage is done. It's like the shot just went through them. I'd really like/appreciate a Dev response on this, at least to know what's causing the problem. My response to this is I don't care, that your scoping for your forge gun doesn't work, I wish they would take all the sightings off forge guns and burn them. Why might you ask, because the forge gun has such epic AOE power that it is being used as a sniper rifle that is able to 1 shot a heavy, about to 3 shot a tank, 2 shot a drop ship. The trail of the FG bullet is also very hard to follow, you should get every disadvantage possible when trying to do long range shots on anything smaller then an LAV. The forge gun also has no fall off on damage, it is a close quarters shotgun from hell able to just kill anyone in one hit often times with just splash damage. It is able to hit people medium and long range, including ranges of up to and past 200+ meters. In short, I don't care that the forge gun your using has some messed up sights, it's an OP weapon for many other reasons, everyone knows it is and it is becoming much more obvious that it and the Mass Driver are the next flavors of the month. I'm sure soon enough you'll be more effective at sniping people with the forge gun, then snipers are at doing their job.
You have obviously died to a forge gun. So have I, but I don't cry. Why? It's not stupidly easy to use in CQC. The ishukone relies on a player's timing to line up a shot on a moving target regardless of range. The forge should not have fall off damage as its primary function is AV but doubles as an AI when needed. If falloff was implemented, red line rail sniping would be more prevalent and you would cry even more about it. The weapon is not OP and is the same as chromosome, more or less. What has changed is the fact that the HMG and heavy class was nerfed so now we are playing different role on the battlefield. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1236
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Posted - 2013.08.25 03:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
forge guns don't have a scope, or aiming sights you idiot. Learn what you're talking about before you open your mouth and sperg ignorance.
Second: the reason why you are seeing long range misses is that forge guns do not have perfect straight aiming. there is a deviation on the shots, giving you a margin for error and a fair chance at missing anything smaller than an HAV (who'da thunk it?) It is a small deviation but it is enough to miss a sniper. more than enough if your reticle is centered on his noggin and the rest is behind cover.
How do I know zis? Because I have been forge gunner since before people started bitching about AV soloing marauders in closed beta! forge guns have a built-in margin for error. |
xSaloLx
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
141
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Posted - 2013.08.25 05:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
If only the same happened to my dropship...
Now if only the swarms had a beneficial glitch. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
12
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Posted - 2013.08.25 07:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:the reason why you are seeing long range misses is that forge guns do not have perfect straight aiming. there is a deviation on the shots, giving you a margin for error and a fair chance at missing anything smaller than an HAV (who'da thunk it?) It is a small deviation but it is enough to miss a sniper. more than enough if your reticle is centered on his noggin and the rest is behind cover.
How do I know zis? Because I have been forge gunner since before people started bitching about AV soloing marauders in closed beta! forge guns have a built-in margin for error.
That's an interesting theory; maybe that's what's happening. I would still like a Dev to confirm if this is the case, however. Anyway, I kinda really hope that's not what's happening. I don't think making an inherent part of aiming simply not function as normally intended is a good balancing technique at all. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
223
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Posted - 2013.08.25 09:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
All weapons have some spread when not aiming down sights. And so does the forge gun.
You can reduce the inaccuracy by being stationary and additionally squatting. Just don't expect to be able to snipe those pixels individually. |
Django Quik
Dust2Dust. Top Men.
1336
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Posted - 2013.08.25 09:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
This is just another instance of this games shoddy hit detection mechanics. Just having a foot covered by a tiny mound of ground can make your target completely unhittable but moving 1m to the side can reveal that foot and suddenly boom, he's a goner. And it's not just forge guns suffering at range either. Yesterday I crept up behind a sniper and emptied an entire clip of my pistol into his head but not a single shot registered. Only when he realised I was there and started moving around was I able to get any shots to actually hit him at all. |
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Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
12
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Posted - 2013.08.25 11:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:All weapons have some spread when not aiming down sights. And so does the forge gun.
You can reduce the inaccuracy by being stationary and additionally squatting. Just don't expect to be able to snipe those pixels individually.
Except this isn't a "spread" issue, this is a "part of the game not working correctly" issue. When your reticle turns red, it's supposed to be indicating that your shot is lined up and you are going to hit the target. This is how it is in virtually every shooter that features a reticle like this, and as far as I know that's the idea in Dust. I suppose it's possible this is in fact by design, but I can't imagine why CCP would want such a deceptive game mechanic. Especially in this sci-fi world of future space clone marines shooting each other with lasers; somehow they weren't able to make their targeting systems account for these minor details? Bit like I said, that's why I'm waiting for a Dev response at least just to day whether or not this is intended. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
17
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Posted - 2013.08.26 04:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bump. Still waiting for a Dev response to at least acknowledge that this is in fact a thing, and preferably also whether or not it's working as intended. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
722
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Posted - 2013.08.26 06:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
Mmk.
You trade something for your insta kills man.
The HMGs reticle lights red, does it mean I'm going to deal damage? Maybe not.
You missed man. I don't see the issue.
At least if people heard that the FG is inaccurate the moans of bitchitude may be softer. |
zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
28
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Posted - 2013.08.26 06:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
The forge gun has 100% accuracy, you're just garbage.
/thread |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
593
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Posted - 2013.08.26 06:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
The problem and its resolution is basic mathematics, OP.
The reticule is large and is, probably, sized for hitting vehicles or installations. Also it has the least information regarding actual targeting information than anything in the game*. It just takes practice and consistent actions.
If you have ever used a machine tool it is common for a good operator to exceed the accuracy of the equipment with good practices and lots of actual practice. Which ties to your FG problem because you are using a hilariously inaccurate input device. Regardless whether you use mouse or controller.
One part of the problem is how far the target is away from you. 299m kill! 300m miss. No documentation regarding same, test and retest whenever CCP/Shanghai claims to have updated it. Also, note that a single pixel difference can mean the hit or miss as well.
Add the inconsistent behavior of the device itself and the built in inaccuracies/limitations of the FG reticule. It is not a weapon for everyone.
For all the QQ Kitten postings on these forums the most common response I get from a new Forge Gunner is, "how do you hit anything with this?". Just the nature of the beast. Also I find the 330 targets slightly differently than my assault. My first several shots at infantry when switching guns will have a low accuracy rating. By the second clip I adjust but the entire system is less than a precision device.
Think ... Big Damned Hammer versus targets of many sizes at variable distances with no actual details provided.
* At least most of the weapons, I no longer spend SP to test weapons since Uprising. |
D legendary hero
THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND
734
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Posted - 2013.08.26 08:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
Summ Dude wrote:Not sure if there's been a thread about this yet, but yea basically what the title says. Sometimes while aiming at a stationary target (a sniper for example), I'll line up my shot, get my reticle red....and then I miss. Neither direct nor splash damage is done. It's like the shot just went through them. I'd really like/appreciate a Dev response on this, at least to know what's causing the problem.
i've noticed this, but quite frankly thats not that big a problem, its actually a balancing factor (the forgun wobble that actually affects projectile path).
Im just trying to get AR noobs to stop trying to nerf forgeguns. they are the only usable heavy weapon. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
83
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Posted - 2013.08.26 08:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Was the target far away?
At long distances the terrain is not fully loaded so that your PS3 doesn't catch on fire. This means that sometimes an enemy appears to be out in the open but is in fact hiding behind a hill or box.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_detail
The reticule turning red is done by the PS3 using what has been loaded into memory (the low level of detail, 'wrong' terrain).
This effects combined with shoddy hit detection (if the target was moving) could explain what the OP experienced. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
698
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Posted - 2013.08.26 08:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
The forge doesn't shoot in a straight line, and shoots just like the Assault Rifle with a spread. Sometimes it goes off in the wrong direction, but 80% of the time it shoots where you want it to.
Trust me, I've let tanks get away because of this, but it's a fair mechanic. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1248
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Posted - 2013.08.26 09:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
I-Shayz-I wrote:The forge doesn't shoot in a straight line, and shoots just like the Assault Rifle with a spread. Sometimes it goes off in the wrong direction, but 80% of the time it shoots where you want it to.
Trust me, I've let tanks get away because of this, but it's a fair mechanic.
If the gun was perfect it wouldn't be any fun. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
17
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Posted - 2013.08.27 01:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ok, so there have been some great ideas about what may be happening here, I think I find this to be the most likely:
Garth Mandra wrote:Was the target far away? At long distances the terrain is not fully loaded so that your PS3 doesn't catch on fire. This means that sometimes an enemy appears to be out in the open but is in fact hiding behind a hill or box. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_detailThe reticule turning red is done by the PS3 using what has been loaded into memory (the low level of detail, 'wrong' terrain). This effects combined with shoddy hit detection (if the target was moving) could explain what the OP experienced.
For the record, I've only ever noticed this on stationary targets. It's possible that it happens with moving targets too of course, but I wouldn't really be able to discern between this and just straight missing.
As for people claiming it's a spread thing, doesn't a spread by definition require multiple shots fired? Whereas a forge gun is clearly shooting one solid slug. So I don't see how that could be, unless I'm misunderstanding something.
"D legendary hero " wrote: i've noticed this, but quite frankly thats not that big a problem, its actually a balancing factor (the forgun wobble that actually affects projectile path).
Im just trying to get AR noobs to stop trying to nerf forgeguns. they are the only usable heavy weapon.
You're absolutely right, this isn't at all a big issue or something I want or expect to be addressed soon. But it is a problem, and I just want to make sure CCP's aware of it. And as I've said before, causing the game mechanics to not function properly is in no way an acceptable balancing method.
So yea, still waiting for a Dev to at least acknowledge the issue. |
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Thurak1
Psygod9
82
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Posted - 2013.08.27 05:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
I have had this happen to me with players that were so close they took up the entire aiming reticle. I shoot and wham i hit the ground 5 feet behind them and they take no damage at all. |
Lynch Boletarias
The Phoenix Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.08.27 06:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ive had the infrequent happening of my forge not firing at all. Like itll charge up and be ready, but nothing fires. It gives the sound and kick, but no ammo gone. Also, ive come across the inconvient retardation of my forge cross hairs. At long range there is the chance that its not picking up the information correctly. It happens, but its nothing really big. Whats funny though is that our forge guns really do have a lot of bugs, but people are always complaining that they need fixed because of how powerful they are. There are indeed things that need fixed, but the damage output is not one of them. If anything, splash damage needs a second look. |
CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2013.08.27 19:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Although it may be too late to quell the distracting swipes and punches here, I think MAY be linked to a similar issue with the SAME common denominator: The aiming/zooming recticle mechanism.
I am frequently a gun installation operator. Since Patch 1.2 I have noticed that shots fired from the railgun and missile installations (devices that require the game to animate a "delayed" firing) will occasionally splash to the left or right of the spot you placed your recticle on. THIS STARTS TO OCCUR ONLY WHEN YOU'VE USED THE ZOOM ANIMATION of the gun, and tried rotating to a new target. It is almost as though the next rounds you fire are trying to splash towards the spot where your gun was PREVOUSLY pointed.
Your forge gun is also a device that has fancy aiming animation, and it MAY be this animation mechanism that is not properly making the translation between the place where you are aiming and the place where the game actually splashes the round.
Until this (small?) glitch gets verified, I have learned that without zooming, the sighting problem doesn't seem to develop. I now AVOID using the zoom feature on the installations. You forge gun operators might not have this kind of option with your aiming animation. I should be happy hearing about your problem because I also often fly dropships... but that wouldn't be fair, and I really hope your forge gun issue is troubleshooted and resolved for you. |
Summ Dude
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
20
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Posted - 2013.08.27 22:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:Although it may be too late to quell the distracting swipes and punches here, I think MAY be linked to a similar issue with the SAME common denominator: The aiming/zooming recticle mechanism.
I am frequently a gun installation operator. Since Patch 1.2 I have noticed that shots fired from the railgun and missile installations (devices that require the game to animate a "delayed" firing) will occasionally splash to the left or right of the spot you placed your recticle on. THIS STARTS TO OCCUR ONLY WHEN YOU'VE USED THE ZOOM ANIMATION of the gun, and tried rotating to a new target. It is almost as though the next rounds you fire are trying to splash towards the spot where your gun was PREVOUSLY pointed.
Your forge gun is also a device that has fancy aiming animation, and it MAY be this animation mechanism that is not properly making the translation between the place where you are aiming and the place where the game actually splashes the round.
Until this (small?) glitch gets verified, I have learned that without zooming, the sighting problem doesn't seem to develop. I now AVOID using the zoom feature on the installations. You forge gun operators might not have this kind of option with your aiming animation. I should be happy hearing about your problem because I also often fly dropships... but that wouldn't be fair, and I really hope your forge gun issue is troubleshooted and resolved for you.
A lot of great points here. I've actually also noticed issues with turret aiming, although I recall the 1.4 patch notes mentioning some sort of fix to it, so I guess we'll see soon enough whether or not the problems are related. And of course like you said, forge guns have neither a zoom not even an ADS mechanic.
Oh but by the way, I've only ever seen this apply to infantry as far as I can recall, so the skies still aren't exactly safe for you while I'm around. But of course dropships need a major buff of their own (lets go 1.5!).
Anywho, still waiting on that Dev response. |
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