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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
216
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
people constantly complain that vehicles are under powered and av is op mostly because everyone stacks damage mods.
now personally i don't understand why people put damage mods on tanks anyway but i'm not a tank driver so can't really speculate on that but for av i can.
my reasons for stacking damage mods as av in particular for use with swarms is purely down to killing the vehicle before the player can recall it. i like nothing more than to harass vehicle drivers preventing from doing their main role of killing even if i don't get to kill them but when the time comes that that vehicle needs to die then i need to do it faster than he/she can recall it and its as simple as that.
its incredibly OP for vehicles to magically disappear into thin air just because someone is shooting at it and then for the same merc to call in a fresh one almost instantly with full hp again. had a match the other day and the guy just kept calling in and recalling tanks until we eventually ran out of ammo.he was pub stomping in his tank so me and a few others banded together to take him out until 4-5 tanks later and no kills he exhausted our ammo supplies (inc hives).tbh it would be a fair tactic if the tanks left the same way they arrived giving the merc the choice of to fight or run.
imaging what it would be like if a merc could recall their current clone if it was taking too much damage.if i want to change or "recall a suit" i have to go to a re-supply. vehicle drivers don't have this problem and can change to any fit they want at will and potentially never lose vehicles all because of this feature
i'd settle for giving tanks/dropships more actual tank(not fitting options) as long as they could no longer recall vehicles and are blocked from entering the red line. these 2 reasons alone are the reason for the need for high damage av |
Mobius Wyvern
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
3276
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable. |
Casius Hakoke
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
288
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people constantly complain that vehicles are under powered and av is op mostly because everyone stacks damage mods.
now personally i don't understand why people put damage mods on tanks anyway but i'm not a tank driver so can't really speculate on that but for av i can.
my reasons for stacking damage mods as av in particular for use with swarms is purely down to killing the vehicle before the player can recall it. i like nothing more than to harass vehicle drivers preventing from doing their main role of killing even if i don't get to kill them but when the time comes that that vehicle needs to die then i need to do it faster than he/she can recall it and its as simple as that.
its incredibly OP for vehicles to magically disappear into thin air just because someone is shooting at it and then for the same merc to call in a fresh one almost instantly with full hp again. had a match the other day and the guy just kept calling in and recalling tanks until we eventually ran out of ammo.he was pub stomping in his tank so me and a few others banded together to take him out until 4-5 tanks later and no kills he exhausted our ammo supplies (inc hives).tbh it would be a fair tactic if the tanks left the same way they arrived giving the merc the choice of to fight or run.
imaging what it would be like if a merc could recall their current clone if it was taking too much damage.if i want to change or "recall a suit" i have to go to a re-supply. vehicle drivers don't have this problem and can change to any fit they want at will and potentially never lose vehicles all because of this feature
i'd settle for giving tanks/dropships more actual tank(not fitting options) as long as they could no longer recall vehicles and are blocked from entering the red line. these 2 reasons alone are the reason for the need for high damage av
As an armor tanker I can tell you I don't fit any damage mods on my tank. That would require sacrificing to much survivability. The only tank I have that has damage mods are the kind that rail snipe, and that bad boy doesn't get used very often because it is a glass cannon. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Beyond Hypothetical Box
149
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people constantly complain that vehicles are under powered and av is op mostly because everyone stacks damage mods.
now personally i don't understand why people put damage mods on tanks anyway but i'm not a tank driver so can't really speculate on that but for av i can.
my reasons for stacking damage mods as av in particular for use with swarms is purely down to killing the vehicle before the player can recall it. i like nothing more than to harass vehicle drivers preventing from doing their main role of killing even if i don't get to kill them but when the time comes that that vehicle needs to die then i need to do it faster than he/she can recall it and its as simple as that.
its incredibly OP for vehicles to magically disappear into thin air just because someone is shooting at it and then for the same merc to call in a fresh one almost instantly with full hp again. had a match the other day and the guy just kept calling in and recalling tanks until we eventually ran out of ammo.he was pub stomping in his tank so me and a few others banded together to take him out until 4-5 tanks later and no kills he exhausted our ammo supplies (inc hives).tbh it would be a fair tactic if the tanks left the same way they arrived giving the merc the choice of to fight or run.
imaging what it would be like if a merc could recall their current clone if it was taking too much damage.if i want to change or "recall a suit" i have to go to a re-supply. vehicle drivers don't have this problem and can change to any fit they want at will and potentially never lose vehicles all because of this feature
i'd settle for giving tanks/dropships more actual tank(not fitting options) as long as they could no longer recall vehicles and are blocked from entering the red line. these 2 reasons alone are the reason for the need for high damage av Attack HAV with passengers in it, or attack it with your squad. |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Beyond Hypothetical Box
149
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable. And what nerf to Supply Depot would you suggest in return? |
Void Echo
Echo Galactic Industries
996
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
have the rdv come down and pick the vehicle up, then have the rdv shoot straight up into the atmosphere. that being said,, you have until the rdv actually grabs it to destroy it |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
216
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
i'm not saying everyone does it. there are tank drivers and dropship pilots out there i could rain missiles down on all day and they just shrug them off or change positions which is perfectly fine and when the vehicle is no longer needed they move off somewhere safe and recall it.
then you have those who don't fit /skill well, they drive recklessly and recall in the open at the first sign of av and right before your just about to kill it they get the recall in and "poof" it vanishes into thin air. a few secs later you see the rdv lights coming in to drop off his brand new vehicle and he just repeats it.
as for rdv picking up vehicles. yes it would be acceptable but that has its own issues of spawning into dropships or getting stuck leaving your vehicle exposed. there is allot of work to be done on rdv intelligence.
i do roll in squads allot and sometimes teams as the only ranged av player and have to pick up the slack. the way i see it there are more mercs in dropsuits than vehicles so there needs to be balance to that and having a full squad of AV to take out 1 tank just to kill it before it is recalled is not acceptable as the balance currently stands especially with features like this in game. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
216
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Void Echo wrote: you have until the rdv actually grabs it to destroy it
that would be no different than having them vanish into thin air. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5865
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable. Not having RDVs come and pick up the vehicles makes literally no sense.
If I can teleport the asset away, why wouldn't I just teleport it down in the first place? |
Cy Clone1
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
228
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
vehicle recall is an important feature. If I chose an ads and av is too strong I don't want to fly around in redline all game. Or if I have to bring in a railgun to destroy redline installations or tanks I shouldn't be stuck using it the entire game. Just as infantry can change fits. If it really is that big of an issue making a longer recall time would be acceptable. |
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DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5867
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:Void Echo wrote: you have until the rdv actually grabs it to destroy it that would be no different than having them vanish into thin air. It would take a bit longer, would require a bit more thought on the vehicle users part as to where to do it, would be a dead give away that the vehicle is being recalled, and would give AV a little more time to react and possibly destroy it, since you'd see the RDV swooping down to pick it up.
Not only is it better for the game as a whole, it just makes sense.
What we have now must be a placeholder since vehicle recall is certainly important, but as is it just makes no sense, and with more balanced vehicles this will become OP quickly. |
echo47
Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic
43
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Or your vehicle can only be recalled near the MCC behind the red line. And if you are at a a certain percentage in damage it can be recalled at all.
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TEBOW BAGGINS
Rebel Raiders Inc.
927
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 01:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
the fix to vehcile recall is scheduled for 1.7
have you been living under a rock? |
Whinis
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
8
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 02:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
echo47 wrote:Or your vehicle can only be recalled near the MCC behind the red line. And if you are at a a certain percentage in damage it can be recalled at all.
Does the same then apply to all Merc suits as well ? I don't understand why vehicles should have some arbitrary limits when suits wouldn't |
Anmol Singh
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
281
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 02:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people constantly complain that vehicles are under powered and av is op mostly because everyone stacks damage mods.
now personally i don't understand why people put damage mods on tanks anyway but i'm not a tank driver so can't really speculate on that but for av i can.
my reasons for stacking damage mods as av in particular for use with swarms is purely down to killing the vehicle before the player can recall it. i like nothing more than to harass vehicle drivers preventing from doing their main role of killing even if i don't get to kill them but when the time comes that that vehicle needs to die then i need to do it faster than he/she can recall it and its as simple as that.
its incredibly OP for vehicles to magically disappear into thin air just because someone is shooting at it and then for the same merc to call in a fresh one almost instantly with full hp again. had a match the other day and the guy just kept calling in and recalling tanks until we eventually ran out of ammo.he was pub stomping in his tank so me and a few others banded together to take him out until 4-5 tanks later and no kills he exhausted our ammo supplies (inc hives).tbh it would be a fair tactic if the tanks left the same way they arrived giving the merc the choice of to fight or run.
imaging what it would be like if a merc could recall their current clone if it was taking too much damage.if i want to change or "recall a suit" i have to go to a re-supply. vehicle drivers don't have this problem and can change to any fit they want at will and potentially never lose vehicles all because of this feature
i'd settle for giving tanks/dropships more actual tank(not fitting options) as long as they could no longer recall vehicles and are blocked from entering the red line. these 2 reasons alone are the reason for the need for high damage av
No tanker puts dmg mods unless its a stupid railgun tanker... |
Anmol Singh
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
281
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 02:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable.
-1 fk you... they will take 10 hours.... |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
641
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 02:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable. I disagree swarms tend to not show up till they hit you so I'd say that evens it out right there |
Spkr4theDead
International-Fleet
451
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 02:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
If you can't destroy vehicles with PRO AV, you're doing it wrong. |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
582
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 02:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable. And what nerf to Supply Depot would you suggest in return?
they won't accept one. they want to be able to solo tanks with militia, and anyone who says they shouldn't gets screamed down. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1947
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable. Not having RDVs come and pick up the vehicles makes literally no sense. If I can teleport the asset away, why wouldn't I just teleport it down in the first place?
Arcade game mechanics, the same reason we teleport in near CRUs rather than climb out of them, or teleport in in ambush or next to objectives. It's easier to code. |
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Dovallis Martan JenusKoll
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:people constantly complain that vehicles are under powered and av is op mostly because everyone stacks damage mods.
now personally i don't understand why people put damage mods on tanks anyway but i'm not a tank driver so can't really speculate on that but for av i can.
my reasons for stacking damage mods as av in particular for use with swarms is purely down to killing the vehicle before the player can recall it. i like nothing more than to harass vehicle drivers preventing from doing their main role of killing even if i don't get to kill them but when the time comes that that vehicle needs to die then i need to do it faster than he/she can recall it and its as simple as that.
its incredibly OP for vehicles to magically disappear into thin air just because someone is shooting at it and then for the same merc to call in a fresh one almost instantly with full hp again. had a match the other day and the guy just kept calling in and recalling tanks until we eventually ran out of ammo.he was pub stomping in his tank so me and a few others banded together to take him out until 4-5 tanks later and no kills he exhausted our ammo supplies (inc hives).tbh it would be a fair tactic if the tanks left the same way they arrived giving the merc the choice of to fight or run.
imaging what it would be like if a merc could recall their current clone if it was taking too much damage.if i want to change or "recall a suit" i have to go to a re-supply. vehicle drivers don't have this problem and can change to any fit they want at will and potentially never lose vehicles all because of this feature
i'd settle for giving tanks/dropships more actual tank(not fitting options) as long as they could no longer recall vehicles and are blocked from entering the red line. these 2 reasons alone are the reason for the need for high damage av Okay lets look at a few things here.. Where can tanks hide to repair outside of the redline? There isn't anyplace at all. Infantry can see the tank at 2x the range the tank can see infantry. Infantry that is smart and gets clipped can simply hide someplace to repair.
A Proto forge assault can take out a tank before it can gain enough inertia back to travel at full speed. Doesn't matter what the tank has on. Then there's the cost of said item... a piddling 60k AV item to take out 1,500k worth of tank assets. Real balance there...
And on top of that you don't want any chance that a managed tank could outlast your bullet supply like a managed dropsuit can. I've seen people in militia who cant win directly vs a proto, trick the proto into emptying their entire ammo supply into nickle and diming the militia's shields, then the militia comes around and point blank empties a few clips into the proto's face. Ammo management...
Basically you want all of the advantages and none of the disadvantages.
I have a suggestion. Get yourself a Tank... then after using tanks for a few weeks look back at the contents of this thread....
It's what I did. I main as a Sniper then heard about the issues tanks were having, didn't believe them at first then after actually using a tank I see that while there are overblown accusations by the tanking groups there are even more ridiculous claims by the AV groups that just want easy warpoint kills. And let ,me tell you, those are some easy warpoints. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1062
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Recall should be a RDV comes by and picks up the vehicle to take it away, just like when it was brought in. Which forces the vehicle scrubs to make sure it is a safe area to recall, rather than just goinfg behind a building and instantly putting their vehicle back in their inventory with 0 risk.
Cause if they try to do that in a hostile environment and a RDV had to come by to pick it up, the thing would get blown out of the sky, which is how it should be.
isn't the EVE motto "Don't bring it if you can't afford to lose it"?
Dust's motto for vehicles is more like "If you can't afford it, bring it anyway and just put it away when you are in danger of losing it". |
Heathen Bastard
The Bastard Brigade
585
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Recall should be a RDV comes by and picks up the vehicle to take it away, just like when it was brought in. Which forces the vehicle scrubs to make sure it is a safe area to recall, rather than just goinfg behind a building and instantly putting their vehicle back in their inventory with 0 risk.
Cause if they try to do that in a hostile environment and a RDV had to come by to pick it up, the thing would get blown out of the sky, which is how it should be.
isn't the EVE motto "Don't bring it if you can't afford to lose it"?
Dust's motto for vehicles is more like "If you can't afford it, bring it anyway and just put it away when you are in danger of losing it".
fine. then every time you want to change your suit at a supply depot, you have to actually remove your suit, wait for it to construct your new suit, then wait for it to construct you gun, then wait for ammo. this process will take a minimum of 30 seconds. |
Coleman Gray
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
528
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 03:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
When it's costing me 2 mil isk just for tank that is easily destroyed by a single man I personely feel I should be able to simply press a button to auto recall a vehicle so I don't need to "hack" it. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
988
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Recall should be a RDV comes by and picks up the vehicle to take it away, just like when it was brought in. Which forces the vehicle scrubs to make sure it is a safe area to recall, rather than just goinfg behind a building and instantly putting their vehicle back in their inventory with 0 risk.
Cause if they try to do that in a hostile environment and a RDV had to come by to pick it up, the thing would get blown out of the sky, which is how it should be.
isn't the EVE motto "Don't bring it if you can't afford to lose it"?
Dust's motto for vehicles is more like "If you can't afford it, bring it anyway and just put it away when you are in danger of losing it".
and swarms should require aiming so that AV scrubs actually have to aim to do thousands of damage with invisible ammo, forcing them to expose themselves instead of locking on through a wall.
oh ****! LOGIC |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
513
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Recall should be a RDV comes by and picks up the vehicle to take it away, just like when it was brought in. Which forces the vehicle scrubs to make sure it is a safe area to recall, rather than just goinfg behind a building and instantly putting their vehicle back in their inventory with 0 risk.
Cause if they try to do that in a hostile environment and a RDV had to come by to pick it up, the thing would get blown out of the sky, which is how it should be.
isn't the EVE motto "Don't bring it if you can't afford to lose it"?
Dust's motto for vehicles is more like "If you can't afford it, bring it anyway and just put it away when you are in danger of losing it".
1: Yea, all pilots have already said that we would like that.
2: vehicle scrubs is a new one to me. We try the hardest to earn a profit. Yea, we have to actually try.
3: So let me get this straight- infantry gets to call in several suits in one game and still make a profit, but that's a no no for pilots? Okay, you're ******* stupid. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
513
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
Heathen Bastard wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Recall should be a RDV comes by and picks up the vehicle to take it away, just like when it was brought in. Which forces the vehicle scrubs to make sure it is a safe area to recall, rather than just goinfg behind a building and instantly putting their vehicle back in their inventory with 0 risk.
Cause if they try to do that in a hostile environment and a RDV had to come by to pick it up, the thing would get blown out of the sky, which is how it should be.
isn't the EVE motto "Don't bring it if you can't afford to lose it"?
Dust's motto for vehicles is more like "If you can't afford it, bring it anyway and just put it away when you are in danger of losing it". fine. then every time you want to change your suit at a supply depot, you have to actually remove your suit, wait for it to construct your new suit, then wait for it to construct you gun, then wait for ammo. this process will take a minimum of 30 seconds.
And you're butt ass naked until it gets made. 1 shot kill by a SMG anyone? |
Nguruthos IX
Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire
1131
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Tanks recalling in combat when im still constantly ahooting smalll missiles at them is, I think, an exploit against the spirit of the design. |
Lurchasaurus
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
988
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
why? infantry can go to a supply depot whenever they want. in fact its common tactic to heal in a firefight by a quick swap.
OH **** NOT TANKS THO
dont forget 1 pos tank costs 10 of your suits |
Charlotte O'Dell
0uter.Heaven
1078
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 04:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
We stack damage mods for the same reason you do. |
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ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
216
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 11:18:00 -
[31] - Quote
your completely missing the point. forget for a moment all your misgivings with the state of amount of tank versus the amount of AV dps. this is not about we want to kill your vehicles and for you to have no choice about it. this is about making things more balanced between the both.
the problem is we AV need high dps because your vehicles are either too fast (lavs) or easily recallable where you need to essentially alpha them not by choice but because the mechanics force us too.
we have no choice. its the main problem with balance on the issue.
if we had no redline tanks we wouldn't need to take an lav upto their redline and speed kill them before the redline gets us. if we had no instant/invisible recall combined with not being able to run away into the redline we wouldn't need to try and alpha you.
ccp could double the tank on your vehicle and an AV player could bring a friend to try and kill you but the fact remains that when you take enough damage you would attempt to just hit the recall button and call in a new one anyway and nothing would be fixed.
the sad fact of the matter is that we have to fit this way because of the way vehicle players play the game but at the same time they have to play that way because of the way the mechanics force us to fit. its a vicious circle. we could balance dps and tank constantly for the next 10 years but it wouldn't make a difference unless the underlining problems are fixed first |
Sylwester Dziewiecki
Beyond Hypothetical Box
152
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 12:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Fix RDVs, then have them physically retrieve the vehicle.
Anything else is unacceptable. Not having RDVs come and pick up the vehicles makes literally no sense. If I can teleport the asset away, why wouldn't I just teleport it down in the first place? You never watched BSG? They can not teleport suche big thing because they may end up at the middle of mountain.. :P |
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