DUST Search - Wait...Explain explosive (grenade) damage again...?

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

Beren Hurin wrote:

Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:

The correct modifier appears to be 70/135.

500*0.70 = 350, overwhelming your shields with some damage to spare.
That damage bleedover needs to be returned to its initial value and then multiplied by its effectiveness against armour - So it's 100/0.70 = 142.85, 142.85*1.35 = 192.85. This is rounded, though I can't remember if it's in the player's favour or not. So you'll have either 57 or 58 armour HP left after taking a straight hit from a grenade.

It depends on the splash formula though - I've heard that it can do more damage than displayed when standing directly on top of it, and you can actually 'headshot' with a grenade.

I'm pretty sure that's how the math goes. If anyone has better calculations go ahead and correct me.

Also check the damage modifiers if you're testing, please.

I don't understand your math...why do you take 100/.70 if my presumption was that I have 250 shield and 250 armor...?

My assumption is that you'd need 250 damage to get through shield, but with the penalty to shield damage you need 357 damage. That leaves 143 for armor. But it gets modified so it has 193 it hits for. Maybe i'm doing it in reverse of you somehow...But yeah I get 57HP left over.

The 100/0.70 is the damage bleeding over after some of it has been depleted by your shields.

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Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1117	Posted - 2013.08.19 17:16:00 - [1] - Quote You have an M1 locus grenade. It does 500 damage. I have 250 shield and 250 armor... Is this how it works...? To get through my 250 shield it needs 250/80% or 313 HP of the total expended damage. That means 187 HP is left over. This must be multiplied by 1.2 for 225 armor damage. Although I can't remember if its 70%/130% or 80%/120%... the weapons blog says 80%/120%...
Not Sentient Archon Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 50	Posted - 2013.08.19 17:21:00 - [2] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: You have an M1 locus grenade. It does 500 damage. I have 250 shield and 250 armor... Is this how it works...? To get through my 250 shield it needs 250/80% or 313 HP of the total expended damage. That means 187 HP is left over. This must be multiplied by 1.2 for 225 armor damage. Although I can't remember if its 70%/130% or 80%/120%... the weapons blog says 80%/120%... Headshot
Zero Harpuia WarRavens League of Infamy 667	Posted - 2013.08.19 17:21:00 - [3] - Quote Last I recall it was 80%/135%, but I'm probably off by 5 here or there.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1120	Posted - 2013.08.19 19:14:00 - [4] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Last I recall it was 80%/135%, but I'm probably off by 5 here or there. So if this is what it was... I'm just trying to figure out the minimum amount of armor one needs if they have 250 shield to survive a locus or an M1 grenade. I guess I'll do some testing tonight.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 367	Posted - 2013.08.19 19:20:00 - [5] - Quote REs fail against these grenades.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 2610	Posted - 2013.08.19 19:26:00 - [6] - Quote The correct modifier appears to be 70/135. 5000.70 = 350, overwhelming your shields with some damage to spare. That damage bleedover needs to be returned to its initial value and then multiplied by its effectiveness against armour - So it's 100/0.70 = 142.85, 142.851.35 = 192.85. This is rounded, though I can't remember if it's in the player's favour or not. So you'll have either 57 or 58 armour HP left after taking a straight hit from a grenade. It depends on the splash formula though - I've heard that it can do more damage than displayed when standing directly on top of it, and you can actually 'headshot' with a grenade. I'm pretty sure that's how the math goes. If anyone has better calculations go ahead and correct me. Also check the damage modifiers if you're testing, please.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1120	Posted - 2013.08.19 19:26:00 - [7] - Quote Niuvo wrote: REs fail against these grenades. That makes me think...if flux grenades one hit all equipment...is all equipment ONLY shield HP? Or is there another 'class' of HP we don't know about...? How does the server see equipment HP?
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1123	Posted - 2013.08.19 22:29:00 - [8] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct modifier appears to be 70/135. 5000.70 = 350, overwhelming your shields with some damage to spare. That damage bleedover needs to be returned to its initial value and then multiplied by its effectiveness against armour - So it's 100/0.70 = 142.85, 142.851.35 = 192.85. This is rounded, though I can't remember if it's in the player's favour or not. So you'll have either 57 or 58 armour HP left after taking a straight hit from a grenade. It depends on the splash formula though - I've heard that it can do more damage than displayed when standing directly on top of it, and you can actually 'headshot' with a grenade. I'm pretty sure that's how the math goes. If anyone has better calculations go ahead and correct me. Also check the damage modifiers if you're testing, please. I don't understand your math...why do you take 100/.70 if my presumption was that I have 250 shield and 250 armor...? My assumption is that you'd need 250 damage to get through shield, but with the penalty to shield damage you need 357 damage. That leaves 143 for armor. But it gets modified so it has 193 it hits for. Maybe i'm doing it in reverse of you somehow...But yeah I get 57HP left over. Basically, if you want to armor tank, you really want 200-300 shields if you want to take a grenade.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 2620	Posted - 2013.08.19 22:35:00 - [9] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct modifier appears to be 70/135. 5000.70 = 350, overwhelming your shields with some damage to spare. That damage bleedover needs to be returned to its initial value and then multiplied by its effectiveness against armour - So it's 100/0.70 = 142.85, 142.851.35 = 192.85. This is rounded, though I can't remember if it's in the player's favour or not. So you'll have either 57 or 58 armour HP left after taking a straight hit from a grenade. It depends on the splash formula though - I've heard that it can do more damage than displayed when standing directly on top of it, and you can actually 'headshot' with a grenade. I'm pretty sure that's how the math goes. If anyone has better calculations go ahead and correct me. Also check the damage modifiers if you're testing, please. I don't understand your math...why do you take 100/.70 if my presumption was that I have 250 shield and 250 armor...? My assumption is that you'd need 250 damage to get through shield, but with the penalty to shield damage you need 357 damage. That leaves 143 for armor. But it gets modified so it has 193 it hits for. Maybe i'm doing it in reverse of you somehow...But yeah I get 57HP left over. The 100/0.70 is the damage bleeding over after some of it has been depleted by your shields.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1123	Posted - 2013.08.19 22:49:00 - [10] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: The correct modifier appears to be 70/135. 5000.70 = 350, overwhelming your shields with some damage to spare. That damage bleedover needs to be returned to its initial value and then multiplied by its effectiveness against armour - So it's 100/0.70 = 142.85, 142.851.35 = 192.85. This is rounded, though I can't remember if it's in the player's favour or not. So you'll have either 57 or 58 armour HP left after taking a straight hit from a grenade. It depends on the splash formula though - I've heard that it can do more damage than displayed when standing directly on top of it, and you can actually 'headshot' with a grenade. I'm pretty sure that's how the math goes. If anyone has better calculations go ahead and correct me. Also check the damage modifiers if you're testing, please. I don't understand your math...why do you take 100/.70 if my presumption was that I have 250 shield and 250 armor...? My assumption is that you'd need 250 damage to get through shield, but with the penalty to shield damage you need 357 damage. That leaves 143 for armor. But it gets modified so it has 193 it hits for. Maybe i'm doing it in reverse of you somehow...But yeah I get 57HP left over. The 100/0.70 is the damage bleeding over after some of it has been depleted by your shields. K i follow now. I also made a chart that shows the applied damage after shield buffers. Useful for designing armor dropsuits probably.

Bettie Boop 2100190003 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 105	Posted - 2013.08.19 22:54:00 - [11] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: That makes me think...if flux grenades one hit all equipment...is all equipment ONLY shield HP? Or is there another 'class' of HP we don't know about...? How does the server see equipment HP? All equipment has one "HP" stat, shields. So flux grenades are a 1 shot to all equipment, which is why you'll see people throwing them at equipment, they are the single best way to make sure there are no REs on an objective before you start hacking.
Lazy Scumbag The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 30	Posted - 2013.08.19 22:55:00 - [12] - Quote [quote=Beren Hurin]You have an M1 locus grenade. It does 500 damage. I have 250 shield and 250 armor... Is this how it works...? To get through my 250 shield it needs 250/80% or 313 HP of the total expended damage. That means 187 HP is left over. This must be multiplied by 1.2 for 225 armor damage. Although I can't remember if its 70%/130% or 80%/120%... the weapons blog says 80%/120%... Armor is made out of C-4. Once your shields are gone grenades cause a chain reaction leading to certain death. I run fits with over 750 hp, and an M-1 is certain death for me.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1123	Posted - 2013.08.19 23:09:00 - [13] - Quote Also did a test with max skilled Protosuits vs. Locus grenades with no mods equipped. Number after is remaining armor if it survives. Minmatar Light Frame mk.0DIES Scout mk.0------------------------DIES Quafe' Scout gk.0------------------DIES Gallente Light Frame gk.0------DIES Scout gk.0------------------------DIES Logistics mk.0------------------DIES Logistics ck.0------------------6 Logistics gk.0------------------DIES Minmatar Medium Frame mk.0DIES Assault mk.0------------------------DIES Logistics ak.0------------------DIES Caldari Medium Frame ck.0----116 Gallente Medium Frame gk.0---12 Assault ck.0------------------------116 Assault gk.0-------------------------12 Amarr Medium Frame ak.0 -----119 Assault ak.0------------------------119 Amarr Heavy Frame ak.0------No armor dmg Sentinel ak.0------------------------No armor dmg 1) A pretty convincing argument that logis have to spend more PG/CPU to survive on the frontlines from explosives. 2) Amarr assaults win in the medium suit category.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1123	Posted - 2013.08.19 23:10:00 - [14] - Quote Bettie Boop 2100190003 wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: That makes me think...if flux grenades one hit all equipment...is all equipment ONLY shield HP? Or is there another 'class' of HP we don't know about...? How does the server see equipment HP? All equipment has one "HP" stat, shields. So flux grenades are a 1 shot to all equipment, which is why you'll see people throwing them at equipment, they are the single best way to make sure there are no REs on an objective before you start hacking. That begs the question...do equipments' shields regenerate?


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