DUST Search - Assault logistics

Creedair Talor wrote:

The assault logistics is still a popular choice for a lot of players and I do not think cutting their tank was the right choice.

Many assaults from what i have seen use their sidearm little to none and why is that,well because in many cases if you got the skills and skill the light weapon finished the job. That is what i be+éieve is the cause of the assault logi. Most suit cases they get more slots for dmg mods more equipment they keep their grenade only lose is their sidearm.

I propose instead of nerfing the tank on all logistics suits or slots i propose the following.

Logistics suits get a 5% basic suit tank buff compared to assault suits, however the light arm weapon gets replaced for just one or two sidearm slot in the case of the amarr. The sidearms when specced into are nasty in their own right mostly in the range the logi is active in. aka heavy maschine gunner range. The duvolle assault logi can use a sub , the mass driver logi a flaylock, the logi that loves long range tac can try scrambler pistol or the bolt pistol when it comes out.

CCP you want logistics to be a support role then do not make their only loss be a sidearm which is used only 2% of the game time from the equal assault class.

Most militares also only provide pure medics a pistol if even that.

This would require a respec for logistics tree and light weapon, this would allow logistics to tranfer to sidearms or away from logistics if they feel the equipment loss is worthwhile.

TLDR version
5% buff of logi suits compared to assault
Light slots to sidearm
respec of light weapon tree and logistics suit branches


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1496	Posted - 2013.08.17 16:21:00 - [1] - Quote Creedair Talor wrote: The assault logistics is still a popular choice for a lot of players and I do not think cutting their tank was the right choice. Many assaults from what i have seen use their sidearm little to none and why is that,well because in many cases if you got the skills and skill the light weapon finished the job. That is what i be+éieve is the cause of the assault logi. Most suit cases they get more slots for dmg mods more equipment they keep their grenade only lose is their sidearm. I propose instead of nerfing the tank on all logistics suits or slots i propose the following. Logistics suits get a 5% basic suit tank buff compared to assault suits, however the light arm weapon gets replaced for just one or two sidearm slot in the case of the amarr. The sidearms when specced into are nasty in their own right mostly in the range the logi is active in. aka heavy maschine gunner range. The duvolle assault logi can use a sub , the mass driver logi a flaylock, the logi that loves long range tac can try scrambler pistol or the bolt pistol when it comes out. CCP you want logistics to be a support role then do not make their only loss be a sidearm which is used only 2% of the game time from the equal assault class. Most militares also only provide pure medics a pistol if even that. This would require a respec for logistics tree and light weapon, this would allow logistics to tranfer to sidearms or away from logistics if they feel the equipment loss is worthwhile. TLDR version 5% buff of logi suits compared to assault Light slots to sidearm respec of light weapon tree and logistics suit branches While support Logis do need more eHP to be effective this whole "force logi to only run sidearms" nonsense has got to end. The Logi suits don't "only lose a sidearm slot" they also lose lots of base stats which further means they get a lower return for many passive skills (as compared with their respective racial assaults). Furthermore while a properly specc'ed and fitted Logi suit can choose to specialize in such a way that they surpass the stats of the assault in a specific area they are paying in both SP and ISK per fitting to do so. In a game that is about risk vs reward the ability to get something which grants an edge, comes with other drawbacks and costs more, is a bedrock element. That is exactly what's happening and ignoring all the of the advantages of the assault suit is not an accurate way to approach balance. Furthermore after the shield extender buff on the Cal Logi at the start of the build many players skilled into Logi suits with no intention of playing support and that SP takes quite awhile to grind so even with the recent nerfs to the Cal Logi and then to Logi in general as well, it is very likely you'll continue to see 'slayer logi' on the field. It also doesn't prove there is any kind of problem whatsoever. Even leaving that aside the Logi is not just a medic, yes it can be a medic, yes that's one of the key roles it fills, but it is not, and should not be, the only role. The Combat Engineer is a great option as well, running uplinks, remote explosives, an active scanner and a non-repper hive (to refill the REs) is a great way for someone to lock down an objective and hold a flank with reduced manpower. What's more both the medic and engineer, while not focused on entering the fire fight have need of real weapons specifically those that can offer some range. For the engineer getting in and out of the hot zone can become a fire fight pretty quickly and the REs may not catch everyone who's trying to take that objective. For the medic revives, hives, reps et al is dangerous work and finishing off some hostiles while teammates are down is often key to providing revives or reps in a meaningful way (as opposed to just farming allies for points). In both cases being able to use a LW is key. There is no reason why the logi suit should be forced to carry only a sidearm, in fact with current suit balance there's no reason to even say that 'slayer logi' are a problem for a well built assault suit. The "nerf logi again" stuff regarding basic functions like the ability to use a LW isn't useful or called for and has got to stop. Sincerely, Been a support Logi since closed beta
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1507	Posted - 2013.08.18 02:55:00 - [2] - Quote Arc-08 wrote: the thing i dislike the most is that the logi suit bonus is 1hp/s armor rep. this makes people like shield logi's OP because they can get up to 5hp/s armor repair, the logi bonus should be the gallente logi bonus and the logi bonus should be the gallente logi bonus gallente logi bonus: 5% reduction to pg/cpu of equipment that way logi's have to actually fit an armor repair to repair armor. i don't want to think of this as a nerf but a balance, or if you keep this then you'd have to give the same thing passivly to all assault suits, but with like 2hp/s and that could make things crazy. now that you have done what i suggested with the logi bonus, you can just give all the logi's 1 hp/s on their own, so they don't get a total of 5 hp/s this would be balanced and fixed. Now fix the assault suits :) Stop that. No seriously the whole "Logi should all be glass cannons who trade in their dps for equipment slots" has got to stop, it's bad macro theory, it's bad mechanical theory, and it's totally unnecessary to boot. The Gal suit bonus is the weakest of the various logi bonuses, at max level when you factor in the extra fittings burden of adding a complex repper (the effect you're taking away by removing the +5/HPs skill) the Gal skill savings aren't enough to cover a proto type mod and that is assuming you're running proto equipment of the highest cost in every equipment slot. Another drawback of the Gal bonus if applied as a general bonus is that it favors the 4 equipment loadouts meaning that some logi suits benefit more from it than others, biased balance like that isn't good practice as it marginalizes some racial frames out of the gate. If the trivial degree of net gain, and the biasing within the line weren't enough reason not to make this a general method there's the outright nerf to eHP. Logis rep others, very rarely to others rep Logi so the loss of eHP hits Logi harder situationally. Slower targets are easier to hit and on average will take more incoming damage per clip because of it. Targets that stand out are more likely to be noticed and are easier to zero in on thus increasing the likelihood of getting shot. These two aspects combine to cause a direct impact to Logi eHP. On top of that Logi base eHP, and raw HP are both lower than Assaults meaning they require more SP and ISK invested just to break even with the Assault suit, and the lower base also means the raw output of passive skills yields less eHP than it does for Assaults. Top that all off with the eHP requirements of being a close support Logi doing work like repping, reviving, resupplying and body shielding in a hot zone and it becomes even more clear why Logi need eHP, they can't rely on speed or dps tanking for their survival, unlike the other roles, so self reps and buffer are all that's left. All of this without even touching yet on either the value of the sidearm or the additional cost of running something in all those equipment and fittings slots. I could make this post much longer but for now I'll leave it as the short version with a final reiteration of my long standing challenge. If someone would like to contend that Logi need a nerf to 'protect' the balance of the Assault role then put your fittings up to prove it. Complete with ISK and SP cost to run the fittings listed and making sure to have the Logi suit be fitting all mods required to meet or exceed each of the Assault stats, not a cheery picked few, so that we're not comparing apples to oranges. I've been repeating this challenge pretty much since the start of Uprising, more or less, and it has gone largely unanswered. On a closing challenge related note keep all comparisons within the racial lines (Cal Assault and Cal Logi for example) and skip use of the AR as the light weapon, because if I fit that works can't be built without the AR then it's not the suits that need a rework. 0.02 ISK Cross PS ~ The racial skills for the Assault suits really could use some polish.