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Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
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Posted - 2013.08.13 14:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
steadyhand amarr wrote:Surely all deaths are turamtiac?
Some much, much more than others.
It's gotten so I don't really mind catching a flechette. The more often it happens, the better the contract is usually going, and it's relatively painless.
Relative, specifically, to a 'Toxin' weapon. Why those things are even approved for nanofacture, I really don't understand. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 04:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:Believe me, they are much more fun from the sending end of the weapon. After a sentinel has decimated your squad and clone reserves for a solid fifteen minutes, bundled up all nice and tight in his prototype gear, hearing the big guy scream when you finally take him down just feels so good. There no real endorphin rush like it on the market to thoroughly ruin someone's day.
I make sure to finish an enemy off though, so it isn't like they are rolling around in pain for too long.
No, the really brutal deaths are things that we aren't even authorized to use in combat these days. PSYKLAD rounds, flamethrowers, nerve agents, that is the really nasty stuff. Two of those three are relatively ineffective against a modern, dropsuited combat clone, Fae-haan. The third ... well, we've yet to see battlefield conditions calling for artillery barrages outside of orbital bombardment. In time, perhaps.
I know the experience of using such weapons, myself. I've discontinued their use. The only misery I require from my better-equipped opponents is the loss of their gear to an opponent with inferior equipment.
Quote:Honor is not the same as integrity, Adamance. I would rather have truth in marketing than lies and deceit to create the illusion of a moral high ground. It is through integritiy that people begin to see you for who you really are, and that forms a bond stronger than any admiration a false reputation of honor might generate.
Judge me by my results, not my methods. I would rather brutally cripple an enemy invasion force than enslave a population with a false sense of honor, Templar. It is also frequently said that we should not take this job personally, but it can be hard not to when you lose a large sum of your own equipment to a mercenary who does not even believe in the cause he is fighting for. If one of your results is to worsen my allies' psychological condition for the unforgivable sin of accepting a public contract opposite you, Fae-haan, then you will hopefully forgive me if I regard that outcome as one of your results.
The integrity you seem to promote is a breed of honor with a troubled history. Taken to its extreme, it discards courtesy, duty, law-- all the illusions that underlie civilization. Even in its lesser forms, it erodes those same foundations. Being aware of fictions does not demand that we reject them, any more than being aware that "money" is imaginary demands that you stop using it. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
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Posted - 2013.08.15 06:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:I was simply trying to make the point that there are worse ways to die. There are virtually always worse ways to to die, Fae-haan.
Vivisection, with a sprinkling of lye. Several forms of historical plague. Dying at the hands of someone you love, who lashes out at you in anger. Being executed for murdering family, whom you loved.
Quote:Showing it off opens up a few bar seats, I know that much. Showing off most any clone soldier weapon will open a few bar seats. Just firing half of them would set the whole room on fire.
Quote:Nobody here has any fear. As immortals, we simply don't have the capacity. Still, a professional reputation of thoroughly defeating an opponent pays well. It just works out that I take some pride in my work, why shouldn't I? Especially when it aligns with my own ideals from time to time. No fear? For ourselves, perhaps. Also, did we not recently have a discussion of the 'Toxin' and exactly how it relates to your ideals?
Have you discovered new ideals that it actually works with, rather than just satisfying a desire to see your opponents suffer?
Quote:Honor is just the bastard child of pride, and foolish pride at that. When you strip it to its core, honor is just a childish plea with the universe to have it marked somewhere that you are a better man of some sorts. Silver tongues and shady politics have all been claimed to be honorable at some point. But integrity holds no secrets or false promises. It shows the world who you are and what you defend, and allows others to decide for themselves whether you are wrong or right rather than being told the truth by a preconceived notion. Call me daft or tactless, but I would rather know who stands for what and what they are willing to do then have everyone mask themselves behind preconceived notions.
To this end, I am willing to uphold my own values. Even if previous mandates such as courtesy, law, and duty are cast away to do so. What a sad epiphany to have come to, Fae-haan. Like the Blood Raiders, you have found a fragment of truth, and you mistake it for the whole. Not only do you hold yourself above the Empire, but above all of civilization.
It is a mistake I can relate to, yet hate nevertheless. We despise most what we are nearest to becoming. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 14:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:Mostly I just came to terms with the fact I was trying to trick myself into ignoring the fact that I enjoyed the feeling I suppose. It was more damaging in the end to lie to myself than to admit my own wickedness. I no longer employ the Toxin weapon system except as a sidearm for when the moment calls for it. Chiefly, when I come across someone who I feel deserves it. I am not wholly evil, at least not yet. I still believe that a commendable opponent deserves a certain level of respect. Just ask Adamance, we have fought each other before, and I would gladly face him again. Regardless of his ideals, I respect his resolve and determination in combat. Other soldiers however deserve no such courtesy.
Perhaps soldiers like myself. To see one's self and one's place with clarity is commendable in its way. It is more troubling, however, that you seem to prefer to identify that conforms to what you want rather than what you are called upon to do and be.
A sure sign of a Caldari who has gone astray is that he speaks words that dishonor his ancestors. You have aligned honor with pride; what then of your forefathers and their culture, steeped in honor? What does it say of yourself that you not only reject their path, but mock it?
I do not believe in evil, Fae-haan, but I do believe in arrogance and folly. In the past, I walked a path comparable to your own, though I never fell in love with suffering, only with death and the deep uncaring cold of places between.
It took long years for me to learn my mistake. I pray that it will not take you so long.
Quote:And yet aside from the child killing I smile when I review what the Blood Raiders have accomplished in developing a well educated society that chooses a life that embraces the state of nature that their god birthed them from. Sure they feast upon our own, but these days they do so from the most deserving source in all of New Eden. It is really quite brilliant from a psychological point of view. Educated? Of course. Knowledge is a form of power. Wealth is another; so is military might. Beauty, charisma, leadership capability-- all power. Industrial capacity, base cunning, wit at wordplay, on and on and on.
The Sani Sabik cults, of which the Raiders are an example, understand power, Fae-haan. Sad to say, it is all that they understand: they mistake it for the very stuff of the world.
Something you do not seem to have quite apprehended is that there is a reason the Amarr name the Sani Sabik "heretics." It's not just because they especially dislike them; depending on who you ask, the Sani either practice a corrupted version of the Amarrian faith, or its older, more primal form. They are the Amarr. They are the Amarr without any good will or good intent towards humanity, the same will to power and primacy unleavened by any desire to help or nurture. They are the Amarr minus the basic belief in a benevolent God.
Many Minmatar make the same mistake you do, Fae-haan: they believe the Sani are their allies, or at least useful enemies to their hated foes. But the Amarr are not the worst New Eden has to offer, and Sani cultists ascendant over the Empire would be no less of a threat than the Amarr themselves. And if you happen to be a Minmatar with relatives still enslaved, their fate under the Sani would be far more in question.
The Amarr do not hold the weak in open contempt, after all.
What the Sani fail to see is that power for its own sake is analogous to collecting an elaborate toolbox only for the sake of having more tools. Power is a means to an end; with no end but itself, it is reduced to an endless recursive exercise in tool acquisition. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
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Posted - 2013.08.16 00:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:Well I am at least part Intaki. Some have insisted that it grants me a potent fusion of having the capacity for deep thought while still being too direct to entirly think these thoughts through. As those Caldari who are ethnic Achura can attest, a person's blood has little meaning compared to their upbringing. The Civire learn to be frank and direct, the Deteis to be still and subtle.
Quote:My father on the other hand was a mercenary, like myself. In his day, there was only one rule to combat: Survive. On the battlefield, hard choices needed to be made that did not always equate to the honorable thing to do. He taught me the value of personal consistancy over rectitude. I can only hope that the spirits will not be so daft as to judge me by my methods of defending my values.
Besides, honor has always been a nondescript term. If you send a Matari boy off to war and he brings back sixty-four severed heads, he is bringing his family honor. In other cultures, honor is found in pulling a comrad from twisted wreckage or having the humility to accept defeat.
Honor has always simply been a nonexistant reward system for those who conform to what society dictates is acceptable behavior without asking the individual to decide for himself what is right or wrong. Honor, at the end of the day, is just another weapon in the Empire's arsenal. Honor, at base, is merely a code of conduct. It's not any specific code (and by the way, I don't think the Matari actually go around collecting heads, even on the battlefield), even if codes of honor tend to have aspects in common. Even within a single group, codes of honor can vary widely.
Honor does not belong only to the Amarr, and I doubt even they would claim such a thing. It was not alien to the Raata. It is of course a method of control, a way to keep those with weapons from using them in ways the society does not desire. For example, honor may bar the slaughter of civilians or limit the horrors to which women in a theater of war are traditionally subject.
To be honorable is to be limited in some way. A soldier who has no such code, not even one he makes himself, is capable of anything his beaten and battered conscience will allow, from cowardice, desertion, and theft to rapine and murder.
My own code is simple: Play your part. Serve your purpose. Get the job done. The rest is a distraction.
If the Amarr have some method of using this code against me, they are more creative than I am.
Quote:Naturally a cult like the Blood Raiders could never hope to control an entire race of people. But if they were to shake an empire to its foundations, perhaps perhaps perhaps another goal might be achieved. Hypothetically an Empire under siege by the SaniSabik would be unstable enough that an outside power would be forced to step in, lest they rip themselves appart in turmoil. At least then a war with the Empire would be seen as an acceptable liberation from a savage and violent cult rather than facing an enemy that can feign nobility.
Ryeon-haani, corrupt governments in power throughout the cluster have all been squabbling for what exists now in the present. I find very few ever have the luxury of fighting for the future, or at the very least predicting possible outcomes. All the outcomes I can see point to one undeniable fact: Unless the Amarr are brought to an end now, they will quickly become the largest threat in the universe. Then you have perceived one truth of our time: the Amarr must not destroy the Minmatar Republic, or we will soon have to face the Amarr. The reverse, however, is also true: the Matari must not destroy the Empire, or we will face both the Federation and the Republic.
The Amarr are aggressive, but not substantially more so than the Federation. Each believes it holds a Great Truth; each will spread that Truth by persuasion or by conquest.
It's a problem, but not one that we will solve by eliminating the Amarr and leaving only the Federation and its Matari allies to beat at our doors.
Also, the Templar Crusader is quite correct to point out that Sansha Kuvakei is a more pressing problem. I would not greatly enjoy life as a slave to the Amarr, but I plan on working out a way to reliably and actually kill myself rather than let the Nation take me. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
193
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Posted - 2013.08.16 15:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:If the Amarr have some method of using this code against me, they are more creative than I am. Then you are fortunate enough to have never been betrayed by those who command authority before. We should all be so lucky to be blissfully unaware that occassionally those you are determined to serve and lay down your life for do not share the same sentiments. You presume more rigidity than my approach contains, Fae-haan. "The job" has layers of priority; treason I become aware of will not simply be ignored because the traitor happens to be my superior.
If you believe that the State has been infiltrated, bring evidence and let it be weighed. There are proper forums for this, and your solo efforts are unlikely to succeed.
Quote:The Amarr however are a slow burn, a cancer that consumes all. With your empress and your ideology, the Golden Fleet has the potental to slowly gain power until they match all three superpowers combined. You have power, stability, and most importantly numbers. You beliefs drawn people willingly into your empire, or forced them in at gunpoint. Entire cultures, families, and parts of history have been wiped from existance by your Reclamation and placed them under the theocratic control of True Amarr. The only difference between the Amarr and the Nation is that Sansha takes the removal of all identity a bit more literally. Now however? The Empire is weak. Following the war with the Jove and the Minmatar split, you are weaker than ever. We can strike while the iron is hot, or wait until you regain momentum swollow the rest of this world.
Some will call me a coward or radical for saying what needs to be said. I assure you I am neither, I simply see a tactical advantage on what is sure in time to become an enemy of the State.
....
I cannot believe I am saying this, but ancestors choke, I think peace with the Republic and the Gallente is not too much of a long shot. The Republic simply wishes to regain lands that are due to them and regain their cultural freedom. I have made the point before how similar to ourselves the Minmatar are. If anything, in aiding with the destruction of the Amarr, ties with the Republic will shift to us rather than the indecisive and unhelpful political ties that they already hold with the Federation. War with the Amarr would cost us an ally, but it would bolster our own State's power while weakening the Gallente in the cold war that is sure to follow.
So that said, I hope no offense was taken by any Matari for that headhunter joke earlier.
That is all it will be though, a cold war fueled by proxy wars that are sure to span the cluster while never engadging in direct combat. This world would be a safer place that way than with the political turmoil that ravages low and null sec spaces today. You have swallowed far too much Gallentean propaganda concerning the Amarr, Fae-haan. The Amarrian goal of universal conquest is far from realization; even at the pinnacle of their strength, they were no match for the Jove, and their obstacles have only grown since. By habit and custom, they are a cautious people, slow to change, but changing they are; two of the last three emperors have been peacemakers. The Pax Amarria is an ode to the path of scholarship and persuasion over the path of the sword.
Even Empress Jamyl has remarked that the age of slavery is coming to an end.
The Amarr can build ships, certainly. They can prepare for a great Reclaiming ... and what do you think the rest of us will be doing? Cowering in shelters, waiting to be dragged into the streets and clapped in Amarrian irons?
We will, of course, be building ships of our own.
The Amarr are surrounded by enemies. So are we all. You would have us upset the balance of power on the presumption that the outcome would be as you describe. You would have us murder an ally against an ancestral enemy because of what that ally might one day become, if everything goes perfectly for them.
The templars we see here are men of warfare, Fae-haan. They see their role as being that of holy knights. Their capsuleer counterparts are the like of Rodj Blake: warriors.
They are followers. They will hope for glory, but they do not set policy. They will do as they are told.
In the end, the Empire's ideal of conquest is precisely that: an ideal. Like most ideals, the reality will fall short of the hope, and we have another and more immediate problem to deal with: the Gallente continue to war against the people of the State. You are welcome to seek peace, but please remember that the Federation only ever stopped the Great War against your ancestors' State because it encountered the Amarr.
The Amarr are not the only self-righteous conquerors in this cluster, Fae-haan. The Gallente come to tame the Winds; the Amarr are latecomers in that regard. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
194
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Posted - 2013.08.17 03:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:Kirjuun, with Heth gone anything I can say is of little importance now. Any additional commentary would just be ex post facto. A young soldier however may still be suseptable to believing that dying on a shelled out rock in the middle of null sec might bring him some form of honor. Esspecially in the Amarr, were Crusaders are taught that striking down any individual who does not believe in their faith is not only encouraged by their generals, but mandated by their God to bring their faith honor. I wonder whether that is true of all Amarr. The Amarr are a sophisticated, but feudal, society; what their forces are taught is likely to depend greatly on whom those forces serve.
Quote:Have I been corrupted by Gallente, or have you been told by those above you what you should be fighting for? We are a meritocracy, Fae-haan; we trust leadership to those best qualified to lead. Those who lead the State say, for now and for the past century or so, that we are allied to the Empire in opposition to Gallentean hegemony, though the State will only permit those hailing from the Khanid Kingdom to practice their faith within Caldari territory, and then only in private.
Yes, I trust the State's leadership. I trust the megacorporations to act appropriately in setting policy to defend the State from its enemies.
Is it a perfect solution? Of course not; there is no such creature. These people are human, and fallible. They have failed the State before, and they will almost certainly fail it again in time. When that time comes, we will deal with the problem-- as we will do with the Amarr when and if they turn on us.
Until then, I trust those whom we recognize as leaders. We recognize them as leaders because they are better equipped to make these decisions than we are. That is the whole point of a meritocracy: to place those who are best equipped to do certain jobs in charge of doing those jobs.
The balance of power has lasted for a century, Fae-haan. You and I lack the perspective, and the wisdom, to know when that balance should shift.
I have put my will and belief ahead of the community's in non-trivial ways before, and watched the suffering it caused-- my own, among others. It is not a mistake I will so easily repeat. You should know me well enough by now to understand that my obedience is not, can never be, blind. When in doubt, I defer to those better positioned to know than I am.
To think you know better is to place your own judgment before that of those who hold positions higher than yours because of their superior judgment.
Sometimes you will be right to do so. Not often. |
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