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Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
163
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Posted - 2013.08.09 04:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
The AR is the standard weapon used in any fps, its so silly people complaining about it being the most used weapon. And to be honest if the ar wasnt so much worse compared to chromosome (no ss, terribad iron sight, impossible to track aim mechanics) there would be no such thing as FOTM. The hmg, forge, laser, md, shotgun were all very good in chromosome.
The reason you didnt see mass people flock to these weapons is because majority of people used ar, and the ar was very well at what it did and didnt force people to spec into a FOTM. But when you break the most versatile weapon in the game, on top of the other (specialty) weapons, this is how FOTM is created, so technically the ones who cried the ar was op all throughout chromosome, this is half your monster. You break the ar , you break the game. Now ccp has to deal with the ar is still op crowd while making fail rushed attempts to balance the rest of the weapons that we for no reason killed in uprising.
All weapons were fine in chromosome with the laser needing a little tweaking. Id suggest they just reverse it to how it was but im not a dev, so dont know if its as simple as that. |
Heimdallr69
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
466
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Posted - 2013.08.09 04:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:The AR is the standard weapon used in any fps, its so silly people complaining about it being the most used weapon. And to be honest if the ar wasnt so much worse compared to chromosome (no ss, terribad iron sight, impossible to track aim mechanics) there would be no such thing as FOTM. The hmg, forge, laser, md, shotgun were all very good in chromosome.
The reason you didnt see mass people flock to these weapons is because majority of people used ar, and the ar was very well at what it did and didnt force people to spec into a FOTM. But when you break the most versatile weapon in the game, on top of the other (specialty) weapons, this is how FOTM is created, so technically the ones who cried the ar was op all throughout chromosome, this is half your monster. You break the ar , you break the game. Now ccp has to deal with the ar is still op crowd while making fail rushed attempts to balance the rest of the weapons that we for no reason killed in uprising.
All weapons were fine in chromosome with the laser needing a little tweaking. Id suggest they just reverse it to how it was but im not a dev, so dont know if its as simple as that. It is not working as intended..lasers are supposed to outrange it but they don't |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
329
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Posted - 2013.08.09 04:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Did we ever see a "save AR, nerf MD" thread from a non eon player? Rhethorical question. |
KGB Sleep
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
39
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Posted - 2013.08.09 05:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
They complain because they die a lot from it. AR is balanced and not an I win button. AR users can't respond fast enough to upgraded MDs and that's fine. It is the most used weapon because of all the BPOs. Free weapon for free fittings. Sell merc packs with BPO SCRs and MDs and see what happens.
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Assert Dominance
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
164
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Posted - 2013.08.09 05:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ludvig Enraga wrote:Did we ever see a "save AR, nerf MD" thread from a non eon player? Rhethorical question. Your comprehension is incredible, quote where i said nerf md |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2408
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Posted - 2013.08.09 06:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Disagree. The Assault Rifle was outperforming most other weapons well out of it's intended range due to the Sharpshooter skill.
This allowed it to fire with:
Pinpoint accuracy
100+ m ranges
No bullet drop
Little to no decreased damage over range
That being said, the Assault Rifle was not only the most versatile weapon in Chromosome it was outperforming even specialist weapons. The Laser Rifle was a terrible casualty of CCP nerfing the wrong thing as it's power came from Damage Modifiers, just like everything else in the game. It's drawback (something the Assault Rifle doesn't have, by the way) was that it had reduced efficiency at lower ranges.
And before you say "cry harder" or anything of the sort, I have Assault Rifle Proficiency 4 and it's been my mainstay weapon since Chromosome first released. I know it's capabilities and it's a hell of a lot more balanced now than it was in Chromosome by -miles- as there is actually reason for players to specialize in other things now. I graciously look forward to the release of the Combat Rifle and the Rail Rifle to see how they perform against it and I imagine they'll squash any "AR needs a range buff" arguments. |
Catina Mercia
Commando Perkone Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2013.08.09 06:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Disagree. The Assault Rifle was outperforming most other weapons well out of it's intended range due to the Sharpshooter skill.
This allowed it to fire with:
Pinpoint accuracy
100+ m ranges
No bullet drop
Little to no decreased damage over range
That being said, the Assault Rifle was not only the most versatile weapon in Chromosome it was outperforming even specialist weapons. The Laser Rifle was a terrible casualty of CCP nerfing the wrong thing as it's power came from Damage Modifiers, just like everything else in the game. It's drawback (something the Assault Rifle doesn't have, by the way) was that it had reduced efficiency at lower ranges.
And before you say "cry harder" or anything of the sort, I have Assault Rifle Proficiency 4 and it's been my mainstay weapon since Chromosome first released. I know it's capabilities and it's a hell of a lot more balanced now than it was in Chromosome by -miles- as there is actually reason for players to specialize in other things now. I graciously look forward to the release of the Combat Rifle and the Rail Rifle to see how they perform against it and I imagine they'll squash any "AR needs a range buff" arguments. Actually, the LR DID need a SLIGHT nerf. Not a lot, just a slight. >Find high spot >Charge laser >Swipe over people without even having to aim properly >Get insta kills |
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
596
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Posted - 2013.08.09 06:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Catina Mercia wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Disagree. The Assault Rifle was outperforming most other weapons well out of it's intended range due to the Sharpshooter skill.
This allowed it to fire with:
Pinpoint accuracy
100+ m ranges
No bullet drop
Little to no decreased damage over range
That being said, the Assault Rifle was not only the most versatile weapon in Chromosome it was outperforming even specialist weapons. The Laser Rifle was a terrible casualty of CCP nerfing the wrong thing as it's power came from Damage Modifiers, just like everything else in the game. It's drawback (something the Assault Rifle doesn't have, by the way) was that it had reduced efficiency at lower ranges.
And before you say "cry harder" or anything of the sort, I have Assault Rifle Proficiency 4 and it's been my mainstay weapon since Chromosome first released. I know it's capabilities and it's a hell of a lot more balanced now than it was in Chromosome by -miles- as there is actually reason for players to specialize in other things now. I graciously look forward to the release of the Combat Rifle and the Rail Rifle to see how they perform against it and I imagine they'll squash any "AR needs a range buff" arguments. Actually, the LR DID need a SLIGHT nerf. Not a lot, just a slight. >Find high spot >Charge laser >Swipe over people without even having to aim properly >Get insta kills Lasers didn't need a nerf, the Viziam did. Was an exponential scaler at Prototype much like Complex Extenders. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2409
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 06:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Catina Mercia wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Disagree. The Assault Rifle was outperforming most other weapons well out of it's intended range due to the Sharpshooter skill.
This allowed it to fire with:
Pinpoint accuracy
100+ m ranges
No bullet drop
Little to no decreased damage over range
That being said, the Assault Rifle was not only the most versatile weapon in Chromosome it was outperforming even specialist weapons. The Laser Rifle was a terrible casualty of CCP nerfing the wrong thing as it's power came from Damage Modifiers, just like everything else in the game. It's drawback (something the Assault Rifle doesn't have, by the way) was that it had reduced efficiency at lower ranges.
And before you say "cry harder" or anything of the sort, I have Assault Rifle Proficiency 4 and it's been my mainstay weapon since Chromosome first released. I know it's capabilities and it's a hell of a lot more balanced now than it was in Chromosome by -miles- as there is actually reason for players to specialize in other things now. I graciously look forward to the release of the Combat Rifle and the Rail Rifle to see how they perform against it and I imagine they'll squash any "AR needs a range buff" arguments. Actually, the LR DID need a SLIGHT nerf. Not a lot, just a slight. >Find high spot >Charge laser >Swipe over people without even having to aim properly >Get insta kills
A few counter-points to this:
Damage mods heavily affected this and they were almost mandatory to get the effects that you're listing.
Despite my protests and literally spamming the forums with multiple threads about the issue (check my post history in the March-April area) I felt that we needed to see the weapon performing as intended before nerfing it. The reason I say this is because, during Chromosome, neither Laser Rifle Operation or Proficiency were performing correctly and had absolutely no impact on how the weapon performed in and of itself.
It's bad to nerf weapons when we don't even know if they're working correctly. For all we know, it could have been operating as though all skills were at level 5 and I had a strong theory that it was considering you could hold the trigger down and it wouldn't over heat until 4/5ths through the magazine.
To that end, this is why I'm entirely against nerfing the Mass Driver at the moment as my testing team has found NUMEROUS bugs with it that need to be fixed before we start playing the nerf game. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4071
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Posted - 2013.08.09 06:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
It's a placeholder until we get all the racial rifles, don't get too attached. |
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Aikuchi Tomaru
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
219
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Posted - 2013.08.09 07:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Heimdallr69 wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:The AR is the standard weapon used in any fps, its so silly people complaining about it being the most used weapon. And to be honest if the ar wasnt so much worse compared to chromosome (no ss, terribad iron sight, impossible to track aim mechanics) there would be no such thing as FOTM. The hmg, forge, laser, md, shotgun were all very good in chromosome.
The reason you didnt see mass people flock to these weapons is because majority of people used ar, and the ar was very well at what it did and didnt force people to spec into a FOTM. But when you break the most versatile weapon in the game, on top of the other (specialty) weapons, this is how FOTM is created, so technically the ones who cried the ar was op all throughout chromosome, this is half your monster. You break the ar , you break the game. Now ccp has to deal with the ar is still op crowd while making fail rushed attempts to balance the rest of the weapons that we for no reason killed in uprising.
All weapons were fine in chromosome with the laser needing a little tweaking. Id suggest they just reverse it to how it was but im not a dev, so dont know if its as simple as that. It is not working as intended..lasers are supposed to outrange it but they don't
Last time I checked my books hybrid weapons had greater range than lasers. But lasers have the possibility to quickly change between ammunition types. Something we're missing in Dust. Ammunition types would change stats like optimal range, falloff-range and damage of weapons for example.
So in my opinion they should add that. There would be 2 possibilities how to do that:
1) Make it exactly like in Eve Online and let players buy every single shot. When you run out of ammo you can't get it fom nanohives anymore, because they would also take the ammo from your pool.
2) Give every weapon 1 or more ammunition slots. You can then put an ammunition type BPC into these slots and switch the types with the press of a button. I could think about the standard AR having only 1 slot and variants of it having 2 slots. Laser rifles should have 3. Also switching the ammunition type with laser rifles would be instant while switching the ammunition type of an AR would take the same amount of time like a reload.
With this the devs would have another possibility to balance the weapons. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2412
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Posted - 2013.08.09 14:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Aikuchi Tomaru wrote:Heimdallr69 wrote:Assert Dominance wrote:The AR is the standard weapon used in any fps, its so silly people complaining about it being the most used weapon. And to be honest if the ar wasnt so much worse compared to chromosome (no ss, terribad iron sight, impossible to track aim mechanics) there would be no such thing as FOTM. The hmg, forge, laser, md, shotgun were all very good in chromosome.
The reason you didnt see mass people flock to these weapons is because majority of people used ar, and the ar was very well at what it did and didnt force people to spec into a FOTM. But when you break the most versatile weapon in the game, on top of the other (specialty) weapons, this is how FOTM is created, so technically the ones who cried the ar was op all throughout chromosome, this is half your monster. You break the ar , you break the game. Now ccp has to deal with the ar is still op crowd while making fail rushed attempts to balance the rest of the weapons that we for no reason killed in uprising.
All weapons were fine in chromosome with the laser needing a little tweaking. Id suggest they just reverse it to how it was but im not a dev, so dont know if its as simple as that. It is not working as intended..lasers are supposed to outrange it but they don't Last time I checked my books hybrid weapons had greater range than lasers. But lasers have the possibility to quickly change between ammunition types. Something we're missing in Dust. Ammunition types would change stats like optimal range, falloff-range and damage of weapons for example. So in my opinion they should add that. There would be 2 possibilities how to do that: 1) Make it exactly like in Eve Online and let players buy every single shot. When you run out of ammo you can't get it fom nanohives anymore, because they would also take the ammo from your pool. 2) Give every weapon 1 or more ammunition slots. You can then put an ammunition type BPC into these slots and switch the types with the press of a button. I could think about the standard AR having only 1 slot and variants of it having 2 slots. Laser rifles should have 3. Also switching the ammunition type with laser rifles would be instant while switching the ammunition type of an AR would take the same amount of time like a reload. With this the devs would have another possibility to balance the weapons.
If you're going by Eve standards, that's not accurate.
Hybrids come in two forms, blasters (assault rifle) and railguns (sniper rifle). Blasters have the highest damage in the game, but they also have the lowest range. This was actually adverse to the Gallente, who specialized in blasters, for the longest time because it was either one of two scenarios:
A.) The ship moved faster than the guns could track B.) The ship, weighed down with armor (such is the nature of the Gallente) couldn't get into range to apply the high damage it was known for.
Lasers on the other hand are insanely versatile with ranges, their "short-range" variant being Pulse Lasers which for medium turrets can well exceed the 50km range and apply some really good damage.
So, Assault Rifles as they currently are are pretty well balanced being as Lasers have them beat in the range department, but AR's have them beat in the damage department. I'm not against giving AR's a -slight- and I mean VERY slight reduction in range (we're talking going from 40m to 35m at the most) assuming that the Combat Rifle and Rail Rifles are well balanced. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
337
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Assert Dominance wrote:Ludvig Enraga wrote:Did we ever see a "save AR, nerf MD" thread from a non eon player? Rhethorical question. Your comprehension is incredible, quote where i said nerf md
I am not talking about you in particular. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2852
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Catina Mercia wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Disagree. The Assault Rifle was outperforming most other weapons well out of it's intended range due to the Sharpshooter skill.
This allowed it to fire with:
Pinpoint accuracy
100+ m ranges
No bullet drop
Little to no decreased damage over range
That being said, the Assault Rifle was not only the most versatile weapon in Chromosome it was outperforming even specialist weapons. The Laser Rifle was a terrible casualty of CCP nerfing the wrong thing as it's power came from Damage Modifiers, just like everything else in the game. It's drawback (something the Assault Rifle doesn't have, by the way) was that it had reduced efficiency at lower ranges.
And before you say "cry harder" or anything of the sort, I have Assault Rifle Proficiency 4 and it's been my mainstay weapon since Chromosome first released. I know it's capabilities and it's a hell of a lot more balanced now than it was in Chromosome by -miles- as there is actually reason for players to specialize in other things now. I graciously look forward to the release of the Combat Rifle and the Rail Rifle to see how they perform against it and I imagine they'll squash any "AR needs a range buff" arguments. Actually, the LR DID need a SLIGHT nerf. Not a lot, just a slight. >Find high spot >Charge laser >Swipe over people without even having to aim properly >Get insta kills It was hopeless in CQC, and was easy to snipe.
The only problem with them was that the viziam had a bad stat- it was even confirmed that the damage stat was 5 points higher than intended. |
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