DUSTSearch ForumWatch http://dustsearch.com/ The alternative DUST514 Forum browser. en-us Tue, 9 Sep 2025 00:00:00 +0000 DUSTSearch RSS Module v1.1 chribba@evemail <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Schalac 17]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=799331#post799331 bcs1a wrote:
Schalac 17 wrote:
Actual player skill in this game is about 5% of the total needed to win. Skill points and gear are the other 95%.


I can agree that skills and gear account for allot, but, my son and some other players I know do quite well when running starter or basic level 1 gear, so I'm fairly certain that "player skill" equates to a good portion more than 5%
Let's say 10% then, but when your gear and SP give you 3-4 times more HP and 40% more damage while allowing you to traverse the map faster and fire more accurately. Well, you get the point.

That is why I can't wait for the day that all these EVE players that have loads of SPs from playing for so long reach the bell curve and everyone else that has been playing FPSs for years and years catch up to them. I mean I already destroy a bunch of people and I am just an advanced suit nerfed weapon heavy. Wait until all the heavy suits are out and I am in proto sentinel gear using a weapon that has been fixed to no longer suck. It will be like the teaser.]]> Tue, 14 May 2013 01:47:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/565217 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by bcs1a]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=793344#post793344 Schalac 17 wrote:
Actual player skill in this game is about 5% of the total needed to win. Skill points and gear are the other 95%.


I can agree that skills and gear account for allot, but, my son and some other players I know do quite well when running starter or basic level 1 gear, so I'm fairly certain that "player skill" equates to a good portion more than 5%
]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 21:36:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/559799 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Coleman Gray]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=791293#post791293 Sun, 12 May 2013 10:08:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557924 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by hooc order]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=791281#post791281 Schalac 17 wrote:
Actual player skill in this game is about 5% of the total needed to win. Skill points and gear are the other 95%.



yup

If this game actually survives...probably won't with the idiotic SP leveling system...it will be funny to watch all the EvE players start getting all their faces smashed by good FPS players who have the same gear/sp they have. (seriously the EvE players are horrible at this game....they have been playing it a year and i can beat them with crap Sp and crap gear and i have been playing friggin minecraft for the past year...can't imagine what real FPS players can do to them.)

They will whine and moan and call everything OP...

Wait a second....it is already happening.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 10:02:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557923 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Schalac 17]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790857#post790857 Sun, 12 May 2013 05:51:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557544 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Vrain Matari]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790797#post790797 Arron Rift wrote:
One question that the OP did not mention is whether both teams have infinite funding.

Or whether the two teams spawn at the same time.
Or what map and whether attacking or defending has a natural advantage on that map.
Or whose side wins the orbital battle.
Or who has infiltrated who and has worked to develop a counter to tactics revealed.
And many better questions that i'm not clever enough to think up.

These questions are not fair to the OP's original question. And to give the OP a straight-up answer, better gear wins.

But i'm willing to bet that among the corps that are real contenders in DUST, gear will never decide a battle. At least not until one team has had their corp driven mercilessly into economic ruin and politically isolated from their friends and backers.

At which point the final gutting of the gear-starved losers by the gleaming god-like victors will be both epic and tragic. And public.

But even then it's not the gear that won the battle, but rather the economic club and the political knife.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 05:22:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557494 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by low genius]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790775#post790775 Thumb Green wrote:
Veritas Vitae wrote:
In this hypothetical scenario, yes the proto team wins. However, you will NEVER see this scenario in actuality,


Of course that's why it's a hypothetical scenario but that's beside the point.


i'm having a hard time finding the point.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 05:12:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557467 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by bcs1a]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790702#post790702 Arron Rift wrote:
One question that the OP did not mention is whether both teams have infinite funding.


in his example funding is irrelevant.

re-read what he wrote.


]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 04:46:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557388 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Arron Rift]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790612#post790612
But what you're not factoring in is the diminished self-preservation that the militia team would have due to the low cost of their suits. For just 1k-2k per suit, militias can afford to fight to the bitter end, whereas Protos will be more likely to retreat as soon as they start taking heavy damage, perhaps abandoning the objective to save their fancy suit Blink]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 04:10:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557308 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by The dark cloud]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790595#post790595 Sun, 12 May 2013 04:06:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557280 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Rynoceros]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790550#post790550 By this measure of satisfaction, every K is a win - and a smile.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 03:51:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557254 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Nariec]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790412#post790412
But in all seriousness, all your math don't mean squat when your out in the field, specially if the difference between the two teams is just one of their players being in Proto while the other team has a Militia. Even if you don't put in "luck" out in the field, there will always be uncertainty that follows.

For example, the two teams is duking it out, but not ALL 16 teammates would be present in that field of bloodshed, some of them would be doing something else. What if the guy who runs a Militia is staying behind everyone because he knows his weakness and instead of being a hero, he decides to support his teams by being smart, staying behind Heavies and Logis and shooting the targets of his teammates, he doesn't get kills, but he does get some kill assists.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 03:07:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/557253 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Arron Rift]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790244#post790244 Sun, 12 May 2013 02:11:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556976 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Jet-Set-Willy Clone]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790191#post790191 Veritas Vitae wrote:
In this hypothetical scenario, yes the proto team wins. However, you will NEVER see this scenario in actuality, and it is very rare for two teams to be very close in skill in pubs and FW (glorified pubs) so all gear does is add to the (im)balance of pubs. Sometimes it helps level the playing field, other times it makes the discrepancy worse, but ultimately is not the deciding factor in a match, since anyone with decent SP has at least a basic frame at proto for the extra HP and slots they can pull out if they truly care about getting that win.


challange the imps to a game where your team only has militia suits, mods and weapons and they can use proto everything.
im willing to bet even though you chaps are good you get absolutely stomped into the ground.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:52:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556922 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by ALM1GHTY B44L R00]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790170#post790170
What's your point?]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:43:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556899 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by hooc order]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790156#post790156 Thumb Green wrote:
I was having a discussion with someone on reddit about the affect gear has on the outcome of a battle. Quite frankly I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall; so I figured I'd come and get you all's opinion on the matter.

Take 16 of the best players put them on a team; then make a carbon copy to put on the other team. We now have a team of equal skill & cohesion. They know the same tactics and how to counter those tactics. All things are equal and barring luck the battle will end in a stalemate (I know dust doesn't actually allow for that). Am I correct in that assumption?

Now take the very same teams, to tip the balance we put one team in militia gear and the other in proto gear. Everything else remains equal and still barring luck which team wins?

To me it's obvious that with everything being equal other than gear and without luck involved that the proto team will win; because their gear will allow them to deal out & take more damage. Am I incorrect in that assumption?



You are correct...gear/sp is carrying bad players in Dust....and there are 1000s of them.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:39:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556898 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Joseph Ridgeson]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790148#post790148 Thumb Green wrote:
Ok so it seems safe to say I was indeed arguing with a brick wall on reddit.


(I mean this entirely as a joke)
Don't argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to your level and beat you with experience.

Be well.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:36:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556868 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by NeoWraith Acedia]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790142#post790142 ]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:35:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556867 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Sontie]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790136#post790136
So the formula is x + (x*0.7) > y

]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:33:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556865 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Thumb Green]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790138#post790138 Sun, 12 May 2013 01:33:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556866 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Disturbingly Bored]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790117#post790117 Thumb Green wrote:

I understand that but like I said we're taking two teams with equal skill & cohesion (a carbon copy of one team on the other team) not one team of experienced beta players version random show goers.


Fair enough, and hopefully I don't sound like an ass, but that's simple math, isn't it?

X + 1 > X

Take two things that are equal, and add something to one side, it should be no surprise that the side with an added benefit will come out on top.

EDIT to above poster: Joseph, we think alike.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:28:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556864 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Full Metal Kitten]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790113#post790113 Sun, 12 May 2013 01:27:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556840 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Gunner Needed]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790107#post790107 ]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:26:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556837 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Joseph Ridgeson]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790108#post790108
Well, then obviously the prototype team wins. If EVERYTHING ELSE is equal and then you give a benefit to the otherside, you have imbalance.

5 = 5
5 + 1 > 5

Be well.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:26:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556838 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Sontie]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790110#post790110
Gear DOES matter, because numbers matter. You can't argue with MATH!]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:26:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556839 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Thumb Green]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790105#post790105 Veritas Vitae wrote:
In this hypothetical scenario, yes the proto team wins. However, you will NEVER see this scenario in actuality,


Of course that's why it's a hypothetical scenario but that's beside the point.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:25:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556836 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Veritas Vitae]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790099#post790099 Sun, 12 May 2013 01:22:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556834 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Thumb Green]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790101#post790101 Disturbingly Bored wrote:
Gear matters in this game. It just doesn't matter as much as player skill.

Back when they used to run Asia Game Show matches in the beta, they'd let random show goers drop into a match with full proto loadouts and max skills, then let them go against us normal beta players.

It was the easiest ISK I ever made.


I understand that but like I said we're taking two teams with equal skill & cohesion (a carbon copy of one team on the other team) not one team of experienced beta players version random show goers.
]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:22:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556835 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Disturbingly Bored]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790050#post790050
Back when they used to run Asia Game Show matches in the beta, they'd let random show goers drop into a match with full proto loadouts and max skills, then let them go against us normal beta players.

It was the easiest ISK I ever made.]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 01:11:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556806 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by gbghg]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790022#post790022 Sun, 12 May 2013 01:04:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556777 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by DJINN Marauder]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=790001#post790001 Sun, 12 May 2013 00:56:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556747 <![CDATA[Who would win? - by Thumb Green]]> https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=789998#post789998 on reddit about the affect gear has on the outcome of a battle. Quite frankly I feel like I'm arguing with a brick wall; so I figured I'd come and get you all's opinion on the matter.

Take 16 of the best players put them on a team; then make a carbon copy to put on the other team. We now have a team of equal skill & cohesion. They know the same tactics and how to counter those tactics. All things are equal and barring luck the battle will end in a stalemate (I know dust doesn't actually allow for that). Am I correct in that assumption?

Now take the very same teams, to tip the balance we put one team in militia gear and the other in proto gear. Everything else remains equal and still barring luck which team wins?

To me it's obvious that with everything being equal other than gear and without luck involved that the proto team will win; because their gear will allow them to deal out & take more damage. Am I incorrect in that assumption?]]> Sun, 12 May 2013 00:55:00 +0000 dustsearch/guid/556746