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N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
396
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
So from an Anti Vehicle point of view it seems armour tanks are much harder to take out for one reason only.
There Armour rep is so powerful. Its easy to take down a shield tank but armour is always hard to finish off.
I want to see peoples opinion on this, from an armour tanker point of view and a Anti Vehicle point of view.
Please be respectful in the comments |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1306
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
I really feel like damage types need to be changed.
Expolsives do 90% to shield, why not 60% and instead of doing 110% to armor, why not 150%?
Then enegry based AV should be 60% to armor and 150% to shields
Then there would be a tradeoff and stronger group combat |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
396
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:I really feel like damage types need to be changed.
Expolsives do 90% to shield, why not 60% and instead of doing 110% to armor, why not 150%?
Then enegry based AV should be 60% to armor and 150% to shields
Then there would be a tradeoff and stronger group combat This would be great actually.
It would bring more variety into Anti Vehicle game play |
Madagascan Eagle
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
1
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
No tanks are op. If anything buff the caldari tank. They may be hard to kill but they're tanks. That's the point. They're easy to scare off. |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
396
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Madagascan Eagle wrote:No tanks are op. If anything buff the caldari tank. They may be hard to kill but they're tanks. That's the point. They're easy to scare off. Armour tanks seem a little too good with the fact that if there armour repper is up it's almost impossible to kill a tank. |
Kitten Empress
Ametat Security Amarr Empire
191
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Armor is much weaker to all forms of AV. However its well suited for tank vs tank. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3172
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Most of the reason they look OP is because shield tanks are weaker than they should be. They don't need a nerf, or at least not much of one, but shield tanks need a buff to be in line with them. |
ZeHealingHurts HurtingHeals
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
209
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
I always said shield tanking was for sissies and look at where we are now.
I WARNED Y'ALL BOUT DEM SHIELDIN' MACHINES! |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
396
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:37:00 -
[9] - Quote
A little off topic but how in the world can Armour be faster then shield. Armour weighs a lot, and shield weighs nothing.
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Madagascan Eagle
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:40:00 -
[10] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Madagascan Eagle wrote:No tanks are op. If anything buff the caldari tank. They may be hard to kill but they're tanks. That's the point. They're easy to scare off. Armour tanks seem a little too good with the fact that if there armour repper is up it's almost impossible to kill a tank.
A tanker works hard and risks a lot of risk to put a decent tank on the board. It should take 3 guys with av to take him out. Expecting to do it yourself isn't realistic. IMO |
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Madagascan Eagle
3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance
3
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
*isk |
undeadsoldier90
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
492
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ok first off no. Just because YOUR av can't kill an armor tank that does not mean it needs a nerf. The repper is supposed to do that. Honestly if you can't kill a armor tank with av your doing it wrong. Change up your gear, or wait for the tanks modules to shutdown it really is that simple. |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
399
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
I dont expect to do it by myself, i just think that the Armour repper reps way to fast compared to the shield one |
Coleman Gray
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
329
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:So from an Anti Vehicle point of view it seems armour tanks are much harder to take out for one reason only.
There Armour rep is so powerful. Its easy to take down a shield tank but armour is always hard to finish off.
I want to see peoples opinion on this, from an armour tanker point of view and a Anti Vehicle point of view.
You think the tank is OP yet you say it's easy to take down a shield tank, that means shield tank needs a buff, you shouldn't be thining "It's easy to kill a tank" |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1306
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:Madagascan Eagle wrote:No tanks are op. If anything buff the caldari tank. They may be hard to kill but they're tanks. That's the point. They're easy to scare off. Armour tanks seem a little too good with the fact that if there armour repper is up it's almost impossible to kill a tank. just needs a counter : ) thats what makes eve great , hard counter fits, dust lacks this. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1306
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kitten Empress wrote:Armor is much weaker to all forms of AV. However its well suited for tank vs tank. forge guns do less to armor, 90%. they could deal 50% instead, 150% to shields |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
399
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:N1ck Comeau wrote:So from an Anti Vehicle point of view it seems armour tanks are much harder to take out for one reason only.
There Armour rep is so powerful. Its easy to take down a shield tank but armour is always hard to finish off.
I want to see peoples opinion on this, from an armour tanker point of view and a Anti Vehicle point of view.
You think the tank is OP yet you say it's easy to take down a shield tank, that means shield tank needs a buff, you shouldn't be thining "It's easy to kill a tank" Maybe buffing shields is the way to go.
Tanks are very high risk, not very high reward. so making them better would be nice, even though i dont use them. |
N1ck Comeau
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
400
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
undeadsoldier90 wrote:Ok first off no. Just because YOUR av can't kill an armor tank that does not mean it needs a nerf. The repper is supposed to do that. Honestly if you can't kill a armor tank with av your doing it wrong. Change up your gear, or wait for the tanks modules to shutdown it really is that simple. Calm down i'm just saying the armour repper reps way to fast compared the the shield rep. |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
66
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
From my thread Fix Shield Tanking
Shield should be able to burst tank like in EVE, not the other way around as it is right now where armor requires a lot of damage while its reps are active.
Shield boosters should rapid pulses in comparison to armor reps. A shield booster should give more hp/s than an armor rep when it is active though. Something like 350-400 shield every second for 5 seconds and a cooldown that is longer than it is currently would be considered burst tanking.
Armor reps should be slow and rep more per rep, but can be held more constant as opposed to shield boosters. I suggest doubling or tripling the amount of armor repped per cycle at the expense of double or triple the pulse interval. Also reduce the cooldown.
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Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
66
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Posted - 2013.05.31 20:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:undeadsoldier90 wrote:Ok first off no. Just because YOUR av can't kill an armor tank that does not mean it needs a nerf. The repper is supposed to do that. Honestly if you can't kill a armor tank with av your doing it wrong. Change up your gear, or wait for the tanks modules to shutdown it really is that simple. Calm down i'm just saying the armour repper reps way to fast compared the the shield rep. Does it? I've always wondered if the armor rep does cycle faster than the shield booster, because according to the attributes, the shield booster should cycle faster than the armor rep, not the other way around. |
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Exmaple Core
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
393
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:55:00 -
[21] - Quote
armor tanks are not OP to AV. In fact, they are just barely sufficent to resist the ridiculously powerful AV in dust. They are however OP compared to sheild tanks and most ppl agree that sheild tanks need to be brought up to line with armor tanks |
Harpyja
DUST University Ivy League
68
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 21:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:armor tanks are not OP to AV. In fact, they are just barely sufficent to resist the ridiculously powerful AV in dust. They are however OP compared to sheild tanks and most ppl agree that sheild tanks need to be brought up to line with armor tanks Before, shield tanks used to be clearly better than armor tanks. Now when CCP nerfed shield tanks, they overdid the nerf, just as always. Some examples include missile turrets and swarm launchers.
The opposite is also true when they buff. Now we have a TAR epidemic which probably won't be fixed in the way it should be. |
undeadsoldier90
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
493
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 21:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Armor rep is slower than shields, but it starts faster and lasts longer. |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 21:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
N1ck Comeau wrote:So from an Anti Vehicle point of view it seems armour tanks are much harder to take out for one reason only.
There Armour rep is so powerful. Its easy to take down a shield tank but armour is always hard to finish off.
I want to see peoples opinion on this, from an armour tanker point of view and a Anti Vehicle point of view.
Please be respectful in the comments Militia swarms still do about 1000 damage with a hardener going. Two people spamming those plus free AV grenades = dead armor tank. |
BobThe843CakeMan
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
376
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Posted - 2013.05.31 21:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:armor tanks are not OP to AV. In fact, they are just barely sufficent to resist the ridiculously powerful AV in dust. They are however OP compared to sheild tanks and most ppl agree that sheild tanks need to be brought up to line with armor tanks Before, shield tanks used to be clearly better than armor tanks. Now when CCP nerfed shield tanks, they overdid the nerf, just as always. Some examples include missile turrets and swarm launchers. The opposite is also true when they buff. Now we have a TAR epidemic which probably won't be fixed in the way it should be. they never nerfed shield tanks. they nerfed the damage mods which used to do 20% last build and now do 10% this build. Also the skills to increase the railguns damage have been mostly taken away. And without the high damage the railgun simply can't destroy the armor tank with hardeners and rep. Shield tanks just need better hardeners and reps to keep up to armor tanks. or maybe not better reps but better passive regen. IMO. |
Xocoyol Zaraoul
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
292
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 21:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
The main problem is the weapon of choice itself:
Blasters and Railguns have about a 10% bonus against shields, and a 10% penalty against armor... So who is going to win in a gunfight, the guy with mostly shields, or the guy with mostly armor? They could have identical total EHP and the armor guy will win simply due to the weapon bonuses being in his favor.
Missiles do a crapton of damage against armor, but large missile turrets sacrifice about 30% DPS for that extra blast radius when compared to the blasters and rails.
As such, HAV vs HAV will always favor the guy with armor as HAV weapons are heavily skewed towards killing shields, though amusingly armor is most susceptible against AV infantry weapons. |
TheAmazing FlyingPig
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
644
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 22:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
I find that shield tanks last a lot longer when in prolonged fights against enemy infantry. The shield regen allows shields to take small arms fire with near impunity and shields are naturally resistant to the militia free swarm set. It's great for following infantry around, providing support and a mobile wall to hide behind.
Armor tanks don't have the natural regeneration or explosive resistance that shields enjoy, but they're scary when you try to 1v1 in a shield tank. Armor tanks get more buffer and resist, making a great burst damage anti-vehicle vehicle.
I think armor tanks are fine. Shields should be buffed a bit, but I really enjoy how long I can support friendlies close-up compared to the armor tank that constantly needs to hide and rep.
Also, TFW you're 3 PG away from fitting your dream Gunnlogi and you already have Vehicle Core Upgrades 5 and have all lows filled with 15% PG. |
Spkr4theDead
Namtar Elite Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 22:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:I really feel like damage types need to be changed.
Expolsives do 90% to shield, why not 60% and instead of doing 110% to armor, why not 150%?
Then enegry based AV should be 60% to armor and 150% to shields
Then there would be a tradeoff and stronger group combat Have you been in an armor tank when mod stacked militia swarms hit? With perfect vehicle armor skills, they still make me run away really fast. Why should swarms get such a massive bonus increase when they already do plenty? |
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