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Tham Dui
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.30 12:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, im having some issues with my HMG build on one of my character. As it is , i feel like im more a burden for my Logis friend than a contender. At the moment there is no suit for heavies that lets me at least pack a nano or a drop spot right ?
Any heavies out there that can share some thought ? Does it get better with better shields, any setup/combo on shields ? Or should i just on the wagon and buy my way to a tier V Tac Assault...seems to be all that ppl use right now ! |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
741
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Posted - 2013.05.30 13:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Describe burden? In that they can't keep you alive? Need to give you ammo constantly?
If they are constantly healing you can giving you ammo then they are probably happy that they get points.
Are you running out of bullets or grenades?
Some heavies are using Tac but personally I do fine with my HMG. I think the MH-82 is important to use though as what bonus it gives really tips the scale.
If you are using a lot of ammo to kill people you might look into investing in Handheld Weapon Upgrades. it opens up access to the Damage Modifiers. I run Complex Damage Modifiers which increase my weapon damage by 10% for my HMG (I use the heavy weapon version, but it unlocks them all). That means every 10 bullets I hit with I get the worth of another bullet added.
Also no the heavy cannot use any equipment items. Currently there is the amarr heavy frame, and the amarr sentinel, the only difference is the distribution of high/low slots (along with the specific sentinel skills but etc etc).
That doesn't mean you don't have utility. Assaults are the killers, whcih is where misconceptions start. You aren't front line assault, assaults are front line assault, and can modify their sutis to endure or kill as needed. Heavies are defenders.
Some examples of what your suit can do that others can't.
1. If I see a logi going for a revive in open near me I will move between the known enemy location and the body, so any bullets aimed at him will hit my (hopefully armored up) body instead. This indeed has risks but generally I'm the only person who can achieve this without specifically trying. This means the logi (and someone willing to actually revive) stay around and the enemy is denied the points from another kill (you only get points for the first revive).
2. Covering fire. You will have times where enemies are absolutely pouring out. If your smart and are staying near your teammates then they need to gtfo. Look where the enemies are coming out, toss a flux grenade, begin staggered fire on the position. Nobody actually runs into bullets on purpose. With a full clip you can keep bullets landing thruogh the opening for long enough for anyone smart enough to run to run and get cover.
3. Diversion. It may feel like you still die fast but compared to others you can endure much more. One thing I love to do is encourage scouts in my squad by drawing attention to myself when they are close to enemies. People love to shoot heavies when they seem vulnerable, scouts love to shoot or stab an enemy with their back turned. Wonderful relationship.
4. Defenders/Diversion. We are not 1 man armies. I cannot do the work of even 2 decent assaults. 2 assaults and a logi are fearsome. But I can cause a ruckus. There have been times when an enemy moved on an abandoned point that I was able to spawn into with enough time to defend. Many times if left by my lonesome I lose. But the upside is they are forced to bring friends. 1 or 2 often won't take me down because they aren't spawning in concert and it takes them time to come back, in which time my reppers are healing me. Instead word gets out after a few tries and friends show up. 3-4 I might take down on an initial assault if I am smart and they aren't running nice suits. The second wave generally will get me, just too much damage and not enough recovery time (and sometimes ammo). The result? They take the point, but that's 3-4 people that are now away from the main fight the rest of the team is fighting and were successfully distracted for a decent period of time (plus time to relocate after victory).
That is where our utility is and what we do instead of what we would do with the equipment slot.
also the Tac rifle is about to get a nerf next week, was announced. Smaller clip size and something else I think |
Tham Dui
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.05.30 14:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thank you... I didnt even remember that my squadmate gets points for their help. Also made me think i was approaching the heavy in a wrong way, trying to carry the fight to them when its forte is an overwatch !!! I wont quit the Heavy since is the only job that i can do well ! |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
741
|
Posted - 2013.05.30 15:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
When it comes to combat, stick to your group and stick to corners, you don't want open space between you and an enemy until there is so little of it available that they'll be receiving full damage.
Don't cross terrain you can't cross. If you get 5 feet out and are immediately under fire it isn't a good time. There WILL be battles where you're abilities are 100% invalidated due to distances involved. We have the Assault HMG but it's meh. I've tried it lots at Adv level and it just doesn't do what I need it to. Instead I have a fit with a Scrambler Rifle. 1 point in the SR gives you a decent range weapon that will obliterate shields. Which is key.
The reason it is key is because the thing preventing you from doing your job (other than sitting and waiting) is that huge empty space. You can't cross it because you're too slow and can't fight in the open because your main weapon lacks range. So you use the Scrambler Rifle which is 120% effective against shields to drop enemy shields and plink armor. (armor damage is 80%). THe reason being that even a fast runner isn't going to run across open terrain with dead shields because you or a teammate will pick him off. If you can lay into the shields while minimizing your own exposure you can prevent 1-3 people from pushing on your teammates.
It also has the added benefit of low ammo consumption (with decent max ammo), since a regular AR would have you running for supplies.
I know it can also be boring being left behind in those kind of situations, just remember that if your allies storm a location, the enemy will generally move and try a different direction (or in ambush just spawn somewhere else). Start learning how to predict that. Enemy being decimated on the right? Expect an attempt on the left. Full redline? Expect someone to sneak around and go behind. Destroying an enemy spawn in ambush? Think about the map and try and figure out where the game will likely start spawning them.
I think pop culture is a bit foolish with our kinds of character. Speed is 100% important. Don't get me wrong. But we like to view the big guy with the big hammer as some kind of slow moron. But speed isn't how fast you move, it's how fast you arrive relative to the opponent. You can move at the speed of light but if that big moron with the hammer can figure out where you'll be and when, the speed means nothing for the "fast" guy. You arrived at the location at the same time.
edit: This doesn't just apply to heavies. If a scout predicts my heavy and knows where I'll be facing when, all my armor means nothing against a shotgun to the skull. The same way a logi can predict to better save lives and an assault can predict to put bullets in faces. We just have to add more focus on the combat logistics because all the other classes can get there and kill everyone before we even show up sometimes. |
Draka Marintu
TeamPlayers EoN.
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.31 20:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Rynx Sinfar wrote:Describe burden? In that they can't keep you alive? Need to give you ammo constantly?
If they are constantly healing you can giving you ammo then they are probably happy that they get points.
Are you running out of bullets or grenades?
Some heavies are using Tac but personally I do fine with my HMG. I think the MH-82 is important to use though as what bonus it gives really tips the scale.
If you are using a lot of ammo to kill people you might look into investing in Handheld Weapon Upgrades. it opens up access to the Damage Modifiers. I run Complex Damage Modifiers which increase my weapon damage by 10% for my HMG (I use the heavy weapon version, but it unlocks them all). That means every 10 bullets I hit with I get the worth of another bullet added.
Also no the heavy cannot use any equipment items. Currently there is the amarr heavy frame, and the amarr sentinel, the only difference is the distribution of high/low slots (along with the specific sentinel skills but etc etc).
That doesn't mean you don't have utility. Assaults are the killers, whcih is where misconceptions start. You aren't front line assault, assaults are front line assault, and can modify their sutis to endure or kill as needed. Heavies are defenders.
Some examples of what your suit can do that others can't.
1. If I see a logi going for a revive in open near me I will move between the known enemy location and the body, so any bullets aimed at him will hit my (hopefully armored up) body instead. This indeed has risks but generally I'm the only person who can achieve this without specifically trying. This means the logi (and someone willing to actually revive) stay around and the enemy is denied the points from another kill (you only get points for the first revive).
2. Covering fire. You will have times where enemies are absolutely pouring out. If your smart and are staying near your teammates then they need to gtfo. Look where the enemies are coming out, toss a flux grenade, begin staggered fire on the position. Nobody actually runs into bullets on purpose. With a full clip you can keep bullets landing thruogh the opening for long enough for anyone smart enough to run to run and get cover.
3. Diversion. It may feel like you still die fast but compared to others you can endure much more. One thing I love to do is encourage scouts in my squad by drawing attention to myself when they are close to enemies. People love to shoot heavies when they seem vulnerable, scouts love to shoot or stab an enemy with their back turned. Wonderful relationship.
4. Defenders/Diversion. We are not 1 man armies. I cannot do the work of even 2 decent assaults. 2 assaults and a logi are fearsome. But I can cause a ruckus. There have been times when an enemy moved on an abandoned point that I was able to spawn into with enough time to defend. Many times if left by my lonesome I lose. But the upside is they are forced to bring friends. 1 or 2 often won't take me down because they aren't spawning in concert and it takes them time to come back, in which time my reppers are healing me. Instead word gets out after a few tries and friends show up. 3-4 I might take down on an initial assault if I am smart and they aren't running nice suits. The second wave generally will get me, just too much damage and not enough recovery time (and sometimes ammo). The result? They take the point, but that's 3-4 people that are now away from the main fight the rest of the team is fighting and were successfully distracted for a decent period of time (plus time to relocate after victory).
That is where our utility is and what we do instead of what we would do with the equipment slot.
also the Tac rifle is about to get a nerf next week, was announced. Smaller clip size and something else I think
Good post dude couldn't have said it better myself the only thing I would add is be aware of your range if you can close the gap the ar has on you you'll be better off sometimes it's better not to shoot and think your way around your opponent LAV's can be very handy for this in those big open maps It might not hurt later on down the road to spec into them a bit
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Tham Dui
Kilrathi Knights DARKSTAR ARMY
0
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Posted - 2013.06.01 00:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
im really trying to stick with it but its like there is a blight of Tac Ar out there to get me... Those damn things can pick of light snipers before the poor sap gets hist second shot. I dont wanna play a Logis since it seems everyone is doing it at the moment , but i wanna be a contender when my squad is on the heat of the fight. The lack of any equipment doesnt help either... lets see what happens when i get my respec !!! |
Rynx Sinfar
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
756
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 11:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
the armor and shield upgrades help
but stick near cover, you don't want to run down the center of things, find the nearest thing to run to in the direction you want to go and move there first, even if you keep going you have something to duck behind.
Also if your doing ambush remember that is a more mobile offensive game that your suit may not specialize in.
location is also important, high ground is better than low ground generally. cover rich areas are best when giving cover but not restricting visibility. Flanking os important and is worth the extra 8 seconds to go around and attack from an extra side. |
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER
TeamPlayers EoN.
363
|
Posted - 2013.06.01 15:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maxing out innate armor and shields is a start, as well as taking your operation into proficiency. TAC scrubs are the majority not only because of their range, but damage per shot. Proficiency of your weapon provides 3% increase per level so 15% when maxed. Couple that with a complex damage mod...10% and you allow yourself to force the crowd to disperse or you wipe em all.
Learning proper nade use and leveling that up to pack a greater punch is also a way to increase survivability |
Tham Dui
Kilrathi Knights DARKSTAR ARMY
0
|
Posted - 2013.06.02 00:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sounds like a plan... Im still waiting on a pending respec to show up. Sadly i got a lot of skill points tied down into stuff that just fell out of usefulness or even worst , i was experimenting !!! But when CCP decides to give me the already approved respec ill go HMG again, first the weapon the then suit , last the the nades.... Right now i got first the LAV , then 3 diff weapons ( must have been drunk on that one ) and lastly the suit !!! |
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