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Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
187
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Posted - 2013.05.03 01:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
It started out in a troll thread but i figured what the heck i think its worth a discusion.
A watchdog group for a watchdog group.
God bless good ole fashioned bureaucracy.
Okay for the real feedback on this. I applaud the effort Mith but in truth its a redundant effort. Ultimately the real issue is getting an elected CPM and for that to occur CPM needs a charter of ideals, bylaws, and mechanisms for not only election but removal and no-confidence votes.
However a thing to remember about unfiltered democracy and the underpinning on why America(the example i know best) was established as a republic, Mob rule is bad, especially when in the hands of an uninformed electorate. Unlike MMO troll FPS trolls are the masters of public assassinations and smear campaigns(sure mmo guys do it well, but FPS guys are ruthless).
This means if no-votes and recall is a mechanism in the hands of the people it becomes very easy for savvy political operators to begin to create discontent by pushing hot button issues and swelling up a mob through disinforamtion, half truth and isolation(aka the FOX News model).
There was a reason why the Senate prior to the 17th amendment was appointed by state legislature instead of directly elected because the position of power(only 2/state) was too great to put in the hands of mob rule.
This is why im a proponent that a part of the charter CPM test the idea(for future consideration to possibly CSM) a bicameral approach in which part of the seats are popularly elected and 1 maybe 2 seats are appointed by CCP after interview with the candidates, seeking the post. It serves as a sanity check for CCP but also ensure the council is truly balanced on all effects.
Why this instead of all full player elected seats? Because politics are a dirty business and power blocks begin to form and mud begins to fling. Having 1-2 appointees at least ensure CCP person(s) they feel can serve as perhaps a mediatior when opposing and vocal elected officials begin to clash behind closed doors and serves as a check against wildly changing attitudes and fluctuating demographics that are likely to occur in a F2P FPS community.
Edit- Just like a congress does, the CPM should be looking to tap expert panels or perhaps CCP should be the one to appoint these panels, To gather data from individuals of a particular role well known throughout the community in that regard and give write a well thoughtout and well documented argument for the role.
An example is the threads genereated by Mavadao, Caeli, Slap, Noc, and others( these are the ones ive read from a long while ago) on the state of tankers. This panel and its "findings" then needed to have a counter rebuttal presented by an expert panel of AV specialists.
Point is thats how governments work you move people into positions of power and then they delegate and find 'experts" to present findings and provide critiques and then you balance them with counter debate. Then you present the whole thing to CCP. Its delegation 101.
Of course the question becomes define "expert" and should they really be the only ones to voice an opinion or should they be seeking to empower others and give their opinion to. Or does this simply create a needless and potentially dangerous filter?
Discuss. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
162
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Posted - 2013.05.03 01:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
They are only advocates for dust players, they help the community better convey ideas to CCP about how the game is moving and in what direction the game moves. The council will only be there to be a bully pulpit for changes and integration into New Eden. As with the csm popularity does not translate into good networking skills or knowledge of mechanics. I agree we need some type of electoral process but only to stop threads about CCP favoritism. Council members will have a much harder time on the forums than csm because the player base is so large and anyone can have multiple accounts. Much consideration is needed on the process of election and on the persons being elected. We don't want any ol' rag-a-muffin spewing incorrect information or personal agendas into an already complex task of building a persistent universe. |
Crash Monster
Snipers Anonymous
102
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Posted - 2013.05.03 01:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Discuss.
I bet you're fun at parties. |
Mithridates VI
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
1170
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Posted - 2013.05.03 02:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm tentatively supportive of this idea, maybe simply because I haven't seen many other discussions address the issue of ochlocracy or mob rule (mob especially apt due to risk of both mobile vulgus and organised criminal influence).
Sorry, console gamers, but when it comes to matters of government, your attentive public is a very small minority. The community is composed of very fickle, easily manipulated children for the most part. (Not you, dear reader, but seriously take a look at all of the others posting here).
I am very wary of a voting system at all, mainly because all of the systems I've seen proposed leave so much room for manipulation. CCP are only slightly less susceptible to this, but I think the process would be improved by their involvement. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
162
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Posted - 2013.05.03 02:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Crash Monster wrote:Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote:Discuss. I bet you're fun at parties.
Sometimes these threads make work so much more fun. |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
162
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Posted - 2013.05.03 02:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mithridates VI wrote:I'm tentatively supportive of this idea, maybe simply because I haven't seen many other discussions address the issue of ochlocracy or mob rule (mob especially apt due to risk of both mobile vulgus and organised criminal influence).
Sorry, console gamers, but when it comes to matters of government, your attentive public is a very small minority. The community is composed of very fickle, easily manipulated children for the most part. (Not you, dear reader, but seriously take a look at all of the others posting here).
I am very wary of a voting system at all, mainly because all of the systems I've seen proposed leave so much room for manipulation. CCP are only slightly less susceptible to this, but I think the process would be improved by their involvement. Agreed
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Llan Heindell
One-Armed Bandits Atrocitas
24
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Posted - 2013.05.03 02:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
The idea of allowing people to vote and still getting CCP to chose a couple more members is something to look at. And I like it very much. As said by the OP, it brings balance to the table.
I can't go in depth about this because my english is not good enough for this kind of technical discussion. But something I've noticed is that CPM as it is now, is very good at bringing the community info, at least some of them are. But I feel like, and I bet I'm not the only one, they are not that good at collecting and sorting the communities ideas.
The OP gave some very interesting ideas for that matter, as debates and counter debates. I'd like to see that. It could be recorded or made here on forums, or something like that. But its results should be brought up to the whole community to see as well as for CCP.
Llan Heindell. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t Orion Empire
393
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Posted - 2013.05.03 07:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
This is exactly what I've been thinking for a while - this is definitely one place where democracy would be a disaster.
But in a bid for compromise, I might suggest a slight alternative so that the masses don't outcry at not being adequately represented:
Have a public voting system - any, doesn't really matter, even if left wide open to alt exploitation - anyone who manages to get a certain number or percentage of votes becomes eligible for CPM. This number will be adjusted accordingly so that the top 20 - 30 popular candidates get put forward. However this is not the CPM, only the candidates.
The next step is that CCP goes through and completes the selection process similarly to how they have done here. This will help ensure popular fools and ignorami haven't gotten themselves "voted" in for the wrong reasons and that the best people from the group selected by the players get the jobs.
I'm also an advocate of the two house idea, similar to the House of Commons and House of Lords in the UK - a non-elected body of 'experts' as appointed by previous legislatures and modified/added to by the current one. A board of advisors to the board of advisors if you will. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1361
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Posted - 2013.05.03 07:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
We will discuss that solution as well with the CPM and CCP. We will discuss every option you guys hint at us.
And to be honest, i kinda like it. |
Keyser Soze VerbalKint
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
197
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Posted - 2013.05.04 00:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:We will discuss that solution as well with the CPM and CCP. We will discuss every option you guys hint at us.
And to be honest, i kinda like it.
You sir are a valued addition to the CPM, glad the others pushed for you to be a full member instead of alternate. |
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