I think if your getting killed by two grenades from an assault mass driver, he's using a a good mass driver with damage mods and your running a scout suit.

Yes, but your whole corp using the Laser Rifle is pretty skilled right? Also, Mass Drivers require trajectory aiming, which the majority of users struggle with.

Takes about as much skill as it takes to us an Assault Rifle as I run both.

We have two guys who uses lasers and one guy who uses them fulltime. But I don't see how the lasers relate to the mass drivers not having a reload after every grenade or two.

Right....you have to actually aim and connect with an assault rifle. Aso opposed to a mass driver where you miss and still get the kill. I would respect it if guys killed you with one or two grenades. But when they pop 6 at you before killing you.....it is just a noobb weapon

Right....you have to actually aim and connect with an assault rifle. Aso opposed to a mass driver where you miss and still get the kill. I would respect it if guys killed you with one or two grenades. But when they pop 6 at you before killing you.....it is just a noobb weapon

I was just making a comparison. Also, I'm still mad at being helplessly trapped by Aqua and MittRomneys' lasers lol.

It's honestly hard to compare the two and I should have never donne it in the first place so I apologize. With that said I kill far more with an assault rifle than I could any day with the mass driver. I understand where you're coming from though. When the weapon is used as a close combat weapon and not a artillery/support weapon it could be a bit unbalanced. As a LogiBro i'm usually in the rear of the squad and I lob my grenades into objectices to soften up the enemy before the squad takes the objective. In this instance I see the MD working as intended. What are your thoughts?

Do you guys think that there's nothing wrong with a grenade launcher that you can fire 6 or 8 grenades without having to reload? That gun requires the least skill in the game but, arguably, the most damaging because it is the splash that wipes you out. You don't even have to hit the guy and you can launch it across the map.

I don't mind the splash damage or its radius....my issue with the MD is the fact that you can miss a guy 6 times and still kill him without a reload. There should be a reload after each grenade or after 2 grenades at maximum. It just doesn't make sense that you can spray all of those grenades and miss and still get the kill.

What you guys think?

Gah. Forum ate post.

6 too much? Yes. 1-2 and reload? No. Anything beyond short range needs a range finder, simply not workable if you need a reload after every shot. Codex's 4 was fine.

MD doesn't require direct hit to do damage, but it would be a **** weapon if it did considering how little reward you would get for something require so little skill. Even with splash damage kills, it still takes more skill to predict grenade paths and enemy motion than an AR where bullets go exactly when you point instantly.

Grab a calculator
Go figure out how much splash damage (or direct damage) a standard mass driver can do in 1 second.
Compare that to the damage per second of a standard AR.

Calculate the maximum damage a standard mass driver can do with 1 magazine.
Compare that to 1 magazine of a standard AR.

Look at the scoreboard for a battle, who is getting the most kills AR users or MD users?
What weapon are people still using overwhelmingly?

Actually back up your crying with stats and facts. Seriously, go do some math. I really really hate seeing this thread.

Well, what do you mean by "workable"? With a reload, they can spit two grenades that will either hurt or kill the enemy. There can even be a reload skill to increase the rate. But it isn't cool to survive 3 and 4 grenades only to have another 2 or more miss and kill you.

When you get splashed by the MD, it throws your aim off of the enemy. Long enough, for them to spit another at you that'll miss and kill you. This gun is offensive and defensive at the same time.

6-8 per clip is way too many for the simple reason that it can be spammed at close range for kills. It is the very reason why you seem them more and more in CQC because you can fire off 6 of them in proximity without worry.

4-6 made them perfect as support role from a distance but a lot less OP in CQC. if the idea behind the increase was to make them better support weapons since 4 shots could often not be enough to suppress ppl at distance then make a variant that offers 6 and 8 shots respectively but at a much lower ROF or

some sort of distance delay needed to travel before exploding so that they can be spammed at CQ.

@ Tectonious

I guess my sarcasm wasn't clear. My point in saying that it misses you and still kills you goes to the point that it is not a difficult weapon to use (once you've gotten comfortable with it). Yet, they get 6-8 times to "miss" you before a reload

The only problem with mass drivers was the increase in clip size no idea why they decided to do that.
They need to go back to 4 and 6 they where perfect support weapons then.

Do you guys think that there's nothing wrong with a grenade launcher that you can fire 6 or 8 grenades without having to reload? That gun requires the least skill in the game but, arguably, the most damaging because it is the splash that wipes you out. You don't even have to hit the guy and you can launch it across the map.

I don't mind the splash damage or its radius....my issue with the MD is the fact that you can miss a guy 6 times and still kill him without a reload. There should be a reload after each grenade or after 2 grenades at maximum. It just doesn't make sense that you can spray all of those grenades and miss and still get the kill.

What you guys think?

@ Tectonious

I guess my sarcasm wasn't clear. My point in saying that it misses you and still kills you goes to the point that it is not a difficult weapon to use (once you've gotten comfortable with it). Yet, they get 6-8 times to "miss" you before a reload

Why are we comparing MDs to ARs?? You already got your AR nerf. People use ARs because that's how it has always been and will be. I've never seen a grenade launcher as a primary weapon until this game.

All of what you wrote is extremely irrelevant. I'm talking about reloading and you're bringing up damage. Read before you comment instead of trying to be the first 'Anti-OP, all weapons are good as is fanboy, Poster' in the thread.

Ahhh, mitt can be annoying with that laser on that map lol. We needed Aqua to keep the swarms of soldiers off of us :D

Are you telling me you seriously expect a - grenade- launcher to be a direct hit weapon? Of course they're going to miss and kill you, who would waste time trying to get only direct hits?

Do you guys think that there's nothing wrong with a grenade launcher that you can fire 6 or 8 grenades without having to reload? That gun requires the least skill in the game but, arguably, the most damaging because it is the splash that wipes you out. You don't even have to hit the guy and you can launch it across the map.

I don't mind the splash damage or its radius....my issue with the MD is the fact that you can miss a guy 6 times and still kill him without a reload. There should be a reload after each grenade or after 2 grenades at maximum. It just doesn't make sense that you can spray all of those grenades and miss and still get the kill.

What you guys think?

6-8 per clip is way too many for the simple reason that it can be spammed at close range for kills. It is the very reason why you seem them more and more in CQC because you can fire off 6 of them in proximity without worry.

4-6 made them perfect as support role from a distance but a lot less OP in CQC. if the idea behind the increase was to make them better support weapons since 4 shots could often not be enough to suppress ppl at distance then make a variant that offers 6 and 8 shots respectively but at a much lower ROF or

some sort of distance delay needed to travel before exploding so that they can be spammed at CQ.

Why are we comparing MDs to ARs?? You already got your AR nerf. People use ARs because that's how it has always been and will be. I've never seen a grenade launcher as a primary weapon until this game.

All of what you wrote is extremely irrelevant. I'm talking about reloading and you're bringing up damage. Read before you comment instead of trying to be the first 'Anti-OP, all weapons are good as is fanboy, Poster' in the thread.

you know what I'm done being reasonable F**K YOU GO BACK TO COD! god forbid there is any usable weapon that not a rifle or smg HUH?? how dare they make a grenade luancher that is a primary weapons that isnt easy to kill. there is a reason very few people use it and they dont point well becuase its NOT OP!! you just hate it becuase you cant dance around it and kill it with your ar like every thing else.

I love that the MD is finally useful again even if only in the hands of a logi. I dont really use it for anything but crowd breaking but its fun having to use different tactics then dance and kill this guy dance and kill that guy it was boring, I like that I have to work for heavy kills, I like that I have to use the terrain to my advantage or god forbid work with my squad to take out a MD.

this guy got it exactly right! look at the dps hell look at the dmg per cilp it favored and still favors the AR, a gun that is easier to use.
he read and under stood your comment better the you did you half wit.

Agreed. No skill required. NERF THE NOOB TOOB!!

Oh I read your OP.

You're saying that "spraying" a magazine (6-8 grenades) for splash damage should not be enough to kill someone, I'm saying it still takes more skill to accomplish this then direct hits with the AR.

If you want to talk about magazine size, then if course calculating the damage per magazine is necessary.

Weapons cannot be discussed in a vacuum, weapons have to be balanced against and compared to other weapons, therefore comparison to other weapons (like the AR) is obviously.

It is completely relevant what weapon people use most. If MD was overpowered like you're ttrying to imply (or any weapon), players would flock to it for easy kills. People look for the most effective shortcut.

Where the hell are you getting the idea that I'm some fanboy who thinks all weapons are perfect the way they are? I stated an opinion about 1 weapon? actually I would prefer that being hit by mass driver grenades didn't have that annoying recoil effect, and there are a lot of other changes I would like for weapons in Dust. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that I think nothing should be changed from, but its s stupid assumption.

You exposed your bias; seems like your problem is that the mass driver is a light weapon at all. You have problems accepting that a grenade launcher can ever be balanced with others of such a weapon class. Bottom line is, stat wise (including magazine size and damage per magazine), its still pretty modest compared to other weapon of the same class, and still takes more skill (even with splash damage) then other weapons of the same class.

EDIT: If MDs have to reload after every 2 shots, then that would make them pretty crappy, and require some other buff to make it a viable weapon... and people will say that buff will makes OP.

Do you guys think that there's nothing wrong with a grenade launcher that you can fire 6 or 8 grenades without having to reload? That gun requires the least skill in the game but, arguably, the most damaging because it is the splash that wipes you out. You don't even have to hit the guy and you can launch it across the map.

I don't mind the splash damage or its radius....my issue with the MD is the fact that you can miss a guy 6 times and still kill him without a reload. There should be a reload after each grenade or after 2 grenades at maximum. It just doesn't make sense that you can spray all of those grenades and miss and still get the kill.

What you guys think?

Jesus OP, what a stupid idea.

Why the hell would a support weapon designed for laying down suppressive fire and pinning people in place need to reload after 2-3 shots? That's idiotic. Look at support weapons in the real world right now, typically they are high ROF, inaccurate and AOE if possible at all.

I can't understand why the hell you'd think that reducing clip size by 50% would be the solution. I've said for the last build or 2 that the MD needs looking at but not in the context you're suggesting. If anything it either needs a SLIGHT damage reduction or a SLIGHT AOE reduction and nothing more.

you know what I'm done being reasonable F**K YOU GO BACK TO COD! god forbid there is any usable weapon that not a rifle or smg HUH?? how dare they make a grenade luancher that is a primary weapons that isnt easy to kill. there is a reason very few people use it and they dont point well becuase its NOT OP!! you just hate it becuase you cant dance around it and kill it with your ar like every thing else.

I love that the MD is finally useful again even if only in the hands of a logi. I dont really use it for anything but crowd breaking but its fun having to use different tactics then dance and kill this guy dance and kill that guy it was boring, I like that I have to work for heavy kills, I like that I have to use the terrain to my advantage or god forbid work with my squad to take out a MD.

this guy got it exactly right! look at the dps hell look at the dmg per cilp it favored and still favors the AR, a gun that is easier to use.
he read and under stood your comment better the you did you half wit.

After the missile nerf the MD is the ONLY area of effect weapon left in the game. It sounds like you want to remove the last one so it's all rifles all the time. More homogenization to go along with the request to make needles a standard part of every fit.

Your terminology reveals your bias. If you took damage, he didn't miss you! He meant to splash you and he managed to do so despite the need to visualize the launch arc and compensate for your movement and grenade travel time. That is not trivial at mid to long range. If you stood around long enough for someone to empty an entire clip at short range you are a very poor AR user as you have a significant DPS advantage over the MD.

If you were more concerned with shooting his teammates with ARs, then you are complaining about teamwork. The MD is a support weapon not suited to going solo or frontal assault. The first round alerts everyone around and the smoke trail points right to the launcher. Any AR being targeted will spin around and unload a full clip into the MD user and win.

Use a weapon before crying for a nerf. Find out what it's like to use before you assume it's OP.

Oh look, another child.

Go back to COD.

Right....you have to actually aim and connect with an assault rifle. Aso opposed to a mass driver where you miss and still get the kill. I would respect it if guys killed you with one or two grenades. But when they pop 6 at you before killing you.....it is just a noobb weapon

Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics.

TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top.

THE fact that you wrote "I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong."

means your argument is invalid
you suppose you could have been hit by a flux grenade before you got hit with the MD (flux grenades do 1200 damage to shields)

Here's a simple challenge to anyone who thinks that the MD is OP: Use it.

Go ahead, pick it up and use it. Don't be afraid. It won't cost you much SP and you already have all your light weapon skills polished. It's not like I'm asking you to skill into heavy.

Decimate everyone with your OP weapon, then come back here and report your 34/0 Games and your 10.9 KDR and we'll talk about how it makes you so OP.

If on the other hand you find that our KDR has taken a hit and you aren't getting the same kill streaks that you do with your AR I'd like you to come back and report that as well.

Talk is cheap. If you truly believe what you claim it won't be hard to make your point in the only way that counts here, on the battlefield.

Except as I die I would have easily seen a flux go off. Be sensible. In the instant before a grenade hits you can be tapped by a bullet without knowing it, but if anything that would have caused large damage had connected, it would have been noticed. You see the flux fields go off when you die right after a flux hits, same as you see an OB strike landing around you or see tank blaster rounds splash off of the surroundings when shot at by a tank.

Your point is poorly thought out and unreasonable. Think before you post negatively.

EDIT: I'm fully aware of the power of flux grenades, I use them myself on my driver fit.

Sounds like you got direct hit headshotted. Depending on the person's skills, one of those could do more damage than you have hp. I've dropped some skinweave heavies down to about 10% armor with one shot before.

I'm not getting killed by two grenades. It's more like 4 because none of them hit me directly. Another thing that is ridiculous about the MD is that the splash damage moves your aim off. So, they could spray and spray and it's hard for you to keep the aim on them.

Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics.

TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top.

Are you telling me you seriously expect a - grenade- launcher to be a direct hit weapon? Of course they're going to miss and kill you, who would waste time trying to get only direct hits?

Because only direct hits will net enough damage to breach a serious shield tank. that way the second shot has a chance of killing you.

As a logi i use the md to lat down a wall of shrapnel to cover an advance or as a final "GET OFF ME!"

Mass drivers have splash damage, but someone has to be already jacked up for splash to pull a kill.

If it were otherwise I'd be running 1st or 2nd place for kills, instead of being there for crapping ammo, constantly repping and stabbing fallen teammates with needles.

Who goes for direct hits?

I do. because if i dont land at least one on you i get to replace yet another logi fit.

Because only direct hits will net enough damage to breach a serious shield tank. that way the second shot has a chance of killing you.

As a logi i use the md to lat down a wall of shrapnel to cover an advance or as a final "GET OFF ME!"

Mass drivers have splash damage, but someone has to be already jacked up for splash to pull a kill.

If it were otherwise I'd be running 1st or 2nd place for kills, instead of being there for crapping ammo, constantly repping and stabbing fallen teammates with needles.

Who goes for direct hits?

I do. because if i dont land at least one on you i get to replace yet another logi fit.

Got other things i need to do befire i can train flux. namely train skills to better keep you chumps upright and firing.

Priorities dont you know.


By the way, one in every three nanite cocktails is mixed with fine beers that the gallente mudwrestling teams skinny dip in.

I dont think the OP realizes that a six shot, impact fused revolver grenade launcher is a real weapon in real life.

My other real counterpoint shall be the four shot mass driver was ******** as hell when you realize all the models have six chambers.

I used the MK-19 in the marines a decade ago. earlier version of that monster.

Probably the reciever doesnt weigh seventy five pounds

[
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RaZ7btje5Jo/TKeCx-T23WI/AAAAAAAAA5M/VVPN1OnAYxc/s1600/Mk_47_Striker_40_automatic_grenade_launcher_US_Army_United_States_001.jpg

I dont think the OP realizes that a six shot, impact fused revolver grenade launcher is a real weapon in real life.

My other real counterpoint shall be the four shot mass driver was ******** as hell when you realize all the models have six chambers.

LOL all of above ^.

Charge ISK for ammo on all none BPO weapons including all derp derp vehicles.

No more nerf or buff needed, that is all and you are welcome.

Turn 2 back to beta testing.

MD used to be garbage of a weapon that everyone was afraid to touch for the fear of getting cooties. Now it got a small but reasonable boost and a few ppl are using it which is great and diversifies the game. All the whinning comes from but hurt ppl who end up being killed a couple of times by a weapon and say it's OP. When a MD wielding player consistently tops post-game leaderboards or at least scores most kills for the team, then the weapon becomes OP. All I now see is that ppl with AR and HMG dominate leaderboards. MD is not even close.
I like how some ppl say that MD used to be a fine support weapon. This is the kinda mentality that boxed everyone into using AR because it was the only viable option. All these other 'fine' weapons were never used by anyone b/c they were garbage.

OP: Your argument is invalid.

If you disagree, then can you kindly explain that to the present day United States Marines that their M32 MGL is over powered and has too many rounds?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkor_MGL

Played about 20 matches over the weekend, used Exo MD and got on avg 20 to 30 kills with 3-4 deaths each round. But I work with a nice squad with multiple types of weapons and that is the real killer in this game. AR are great, lasers are great, HMG = awesome but when you get a goo group with diversity it really makes a huge difference.

How does that compare to when you run with an AR?

Things will start to get interesting once FF is on.

Things will start to get interesting once FF is on.

I have been killed my splash damage when the grenade has hit the enemy.

Just my 0.02 FCKNRFNG

The article mentions that the drum is spring driven, so that would explain the spin given during the reload animation. I thought it was a cheesy cowboy move, but now I can see it is a required part of reloading and it won't grate on me.

Mass Driver weaknesses:

Ineffective against most vehicles:I dunno. It is kinda strong right now and buffing it in any way would be ill advised, but I feel like my gernade launcher should be able to at least do damage to a tank if I hit it with 8 rounds? Dunno. If they end up fixing the reloadammo cap to 4 or 5 they should increase direct damage to vehicles. Would make it more of a antivehicle support gun that can also deal with mercs in its free time.

I shoot people point blank and suicide to deny them warpoints and kill them back.

I see FGs and MDs used as SGs. Also off the splash damage topic and to the using other guns as SGs topic, snipers are doing that 2.

I don't think you understand the principles of Fragmenting grenades,

im going to explain this real slow

W H E N ----THEY--- E X P L O D E ---T H E Y ---L A U N C H ----L I T T L E ---B I T S- --O F --M E T A L-- A T ---Y O U --
C A U S I N G--- D A M A G E,

grenade launches hit there target my lobbing the grenade, the grenades are NOT subject to a fixed arc where as rounds fired by Assault rifles are (fixed arc: a pre determined path followed by an object"s" witch never changes)

it's a grenade launcher it is at this point a "spray and pray" weapon it takes great skill to hit a target at range.

i use mass drives they are a pain in the ass to learn to use i know i went through 40 of them before i got it down pat

Naming no names, a certain person in a proto suit one shotted me with the EXO Mass Driver the other day while I was in an A-Series Assault suit with 2 enhanced shield extenders, 1 enhanced armor plate, 1 armor repair module, and my mechanics skill is at 5 and my shield control is at 3. I suppose I may have been tapped by a bullet or two before it connected, but it was still far too strong. The proto drivers should be officer level weapons, the advanced should be proto, basic should be advanced, and a lower level should replace the basics.

TL;DR: Drivers need a minor drop in damage. DON'T REPEAT THE MISSILE NERF CRISIS WITH THESE WEAPONS. These weapons are perfect as are, but the damage is just slightly over the top.

What's your point, fam? It takes skill IF you hit a target but most of the time they don't. One grenade would wipe you out if it hits you but it's taking 4 or 5 grenades. Which means it is the splash damage compensating for the lack of skill needed to use the weapon.

But my point is that you shouldn't be able to spray 6 grenades so fast like that. I don't care about the damage or splash damage.....but popping out grenades like there's no tomorrow before a reload is silly

You know, people keep comparing the MD to the assault rifle, in terms of skill. And I don't see how one can....you actually have to hit someone with the AR and the target isn't always a big one.

You can miss with the MD and still kill them. There's no splash damage on the AR..and you have to predict where they're going when they're strafing or trying to dodge bullets.

See the MD as what it is....I'm not disrespecting those that wish to use it but don't compare it to the AR

And assault rifles don't have a ballistic arc, have WAAAAAAAAAAAY more max ammo, and can't be used to suicide.

Comparing these makes no sense, because the skills are in different areas.