DUST Search - For devs: 'quick&easy' PvE Missions?

Romilous Kashenti wrote:

Onar Kion wrote:

I have said it before, but honestly I a looking more forward to PVE stuff lately. Since I am in the same EVE Universe, can interact with my EVE Corp. I don't have to PVP all the time. I think in a sense DUST will push people away if it is only PVP. I know at times, I log in check out my skill points and maybe play a match then log out. In other games if I am getting spawn camped, or constantly dying. It's more Oh well, that's life. Do I get annoyed sure but doesn't last long. Here, when those things happen, I am losing money every time I spawn in and die. After a while of losing lots of ISK and accomplishing virtually nothing it gets old. I still would like to play but usually end up just logging out. Now if I had a change to play other modes, missions with friends. Yes we could still lose ISK, but in a more relaxed setting.

Or sheesh I lost a lot of ISK today, I'm gonna have to run some missions to cover my costs. This doing myself, instead of just having my EVE character send my Dust character tens of millions of ISK.

Didn't they say that there were going to be games with drone infestations? That would be your PVE.

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Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.13 11:09:00 - [1] - Quote There's been plenty of suggestions for drones, wildlife and Sansha cyborgs and I'm sure the Dust team will get to them eventually. For now though, I wanted to ask the devs if 'quick&easy' PvE missions are possible in the meantime. Assuming that since Dust uses the Unreal engine, it includes the AI from the game, would it be possible to create NPC mercs using the existing armor and weapons? Basic layouts like Standard assault troops, HMG heavies, shotgun scouts, that sort of thing? In anycase I was thinking of something like this: Small scale maps with a simple 'A to B' design. Fighting your way through NPCs to hack or blow up objectives. They could be interiors or outdoors, depending on if you want to involve vehicles. NPCs could be either regular mortals and remain dead or they respawn at red CRUs that you can hack and destroy. The usual installations are there. Supply Depots to switch suits, turret installations that will target you until hacked or destroyed, etc. Not sure on scoring. Would like it to be like ratting in a fleet, where all members get a cut of the isk/sp. To make it different from PvP, you play in a single squad rather then a full team. With just 4 players supporting eachother, class roles become more important and new players are encouraged to work with their squads, rather then ignoring them for other allies. Of course, you can always make your own squad to play with friends or solo the mission for a bigger cut. You could probably add mission levels too, so the better players can get more money. Leave out agents and status for later. Yup, real simple sounding stuff. But I think in practice it wouldn't be too complicated. Just a question of one the Unreal AI is like for a game like Dust. Can they pull back and take cover or will they just lemming towards you, like it's UT.
Onar Kion Dark Horizon Industries 26	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:31:00 - [2] - Quote i like it, just make them pirates. Then it explains why they all have bounties. Make it like in EVE each pirate has a set bounty on them, could be for how difficult they are you get more ISK. Would like to see bigger ones with 4, 12, 24, 32 players and up helping each other out. Also helping with squads/corps working together, learning each other play styles. Would help you to earn ISK, work on your skills, and fits in a combat situation. I know a lot of people that are more interested in Dust PVE and Co-Op then sololy PVP.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.13 18:07:00 - [3] - Quote Bounties would be neat but would probably require some coding. Better to stick with the warpoints system for now I think.
Onar Kion Dark Horizon Industries 26	Posted - 2012.11.13 18:10:00 - [4] - Quote Edu Ashbourne wrote: Bounties would be neat but would probably require some coding. Better to stick with the warpoints system for now I think. Warpoints don't go with you after your done with the mission. Bounties goes right along with EVE, lots of things have bounties there even other players putting bounties on each other. Wouldn't be anymore coding then the number you get now when shooting someone. It could just have a ISK value under it.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.13 18:27:00 - [5] - Quote Onar Kion wrote: Edu Ashbourne wrote: Bounties would be neat but would probably require some coding. Better to stick with the warpoints system for now I think. Warpoints don't go with you after your done with the mission. Bounties goes right along with EVE, lots of things have bounties there even other players putting bounties on each other. Wouldn't be anymore coding then the number you get now when shooting someone. It could just have a ISK value under it. I guess you could have bounties but they would have to split between squad members anyway, like with eve fleets. Probably still a good idea to reward kills though, else stealth classes would rush past everything to speed through objectives.
Onar Kion Dark Horizon Industries 26	Posted - 2012.11.13 18:37:00 - [6] - Quote Edu Ashbourne wrote: Onar Kion wrote: Edu Ashbourne wrote: Bounties would be neat but would probably require some coding. Better to stick with the warpoints system for now I think. Warpoints don't go with you after your done with the mission. Bounties goes right along with EVE, lots of things have bounties there even other players putting bounties on each other. Wouldn't be anymore coding then the number you get now when shooting someone. It could just have a ISK value under it. I guess you could have bounties but they would have to split between squad members anyway, like with eve fleets. Probably still a good idea to reward kills though, else stealth classes would rush past everything to speed through objectives. Yeah in EVE you get paid for the mission, get a bonus for doing it in the time limited. Plus get paid per ship you destory (If it is a rogue drone or pirate). So it makes sense that PVE missions in Dust work the same as far as payment. Plus in EVE you loot, and salvage the ships which you can sell those items too to make more ISK or stockpile the items.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:05:00 - [7] - Quote I don't like this idea. Having drones or whatever for a very unique sort of coop experience is fine. It varies the gameplay options open to people, and hey, who doesn't like shooting robots with friends? But bots that mirror the players you fight in PvP would not be the way to go. If you want to play that kind of game, you should queue for an Instant Battle. CCP has a vested interest in getting people to queue for games, as it keeps wait times low. Playing against bots using forge guns and assault rifles instead of playing against players using the same isn't really something that'd contribute to Dust being a good game. You're not offering players a new kind of gameplay experience like fighting drones would be, and are only making it harder for people to find a good Instant Battle game. And making it one squad vs. one squad doesn't change that.
Ranger SnakeBlood OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 126	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:14:00 - [8] - Quote It would be a good addition and one that would make sence in context to eve as PVE (or mining) is the bread and butter of eve like it or not sure some can exclusivly do PVP but they are a minority, it would be mostinteresting to see if it is done in the level system of eve lvl ones could be recomended for maybe a squad of on or 2 troops, lvl 2 could be a full squad , lvl 3 could have vehicles and 2 squads lvl 4 being an entire team sized group, then there could be a version of incursions which would be large in scale possibly using more than one team fighting on differrnt sectors of the planet maybe have it so that what happens inone fight affects the others The PVE could be made quite varied using the map randomiser and a random enemy type(senerio specific of course) but while drones are the only announced AI enemy New Eden has a whole array of potential victims from pirates of all groups, to sashas robo zombie horde to faction military if your FW, or even security forcesif you wish to work for the pirates, this would make any type of PVE less predictable if its all random
Onar Kion Dark Horizon Industries 26	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:22:00 - [9] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: I don't like this idea. Having drones or whatever for a very unique sort of coop experience is fine. It varies the gameplay options open to people, and hey, who doesn't like shooting robots with friends? But bots that mirror the players you fight in PvP would not be the way to go. If you want to play that kind of game, you should queue for an Instant Battle. CCP has a vested interest in getting people to queue for games, as it keeps wait times low. Playing against bots using forge guns and assault rifles instead of playing against players using the same isn't really something that'd contribute to Dust being a good game. You're not offering players a new kind of gameplay experience like fighting drones would be, and are only making it harder for people to find a good Instant Battle game. And making it one squad vs. one squad doesn't change that. Why can't you have both? That is very narrow view saying I only like PVP so thats all it should be.. I personally know several people that want to play Dust but have no interest in playing PvP solely. I play EVE and I run missions all the time. EVE is not soley PVP, or PVE it's a mixture of both. I'd rather attract both player bases, then just one player base and alienating the other. Since the more players you the more successful the game is, and you will get cross over between the PVP and PVE game types. Plus once the Corp taxes are in play PVE'ing players will still be earning your corp ISK.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.13 22:44:00 - [10] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: I don't like this idea. Having drones or whatever for a very unique sort of coop experience is fine. It varies the gameplay options open to people, and hey, who doesn't like shooting robots with friends? But bots that mirror the players you fight in PvP would not be the way to go. If you want to play that kind of game, you should queue for an Instant Battle. CCP has a vested interest in getting people to queue for games, as it keeps wait times low. Playing against bots using forge guns and assault rifles instead of playing against players using the same isn't really something that'd contribute to Dust being a good game. You're not offering players a new kind of gameplay experience like fighting drones would be, and are only making it harder for people to find a good Instant Battle game. And making it one squad vs. one squad doesn't change that. Don't intend for the PvE to mirror regular combat at all. You and your squad go A-Team on a full team of NPCs to complete objectives on a linear designed map. Think of it like the pirate NPCs in eve. There's always a lot of them and they use models belong to ships that would wipe the floor with you in PvP, but they're actually pretty easy to kill and only use the one weapon and the odd module. Drones will come in later but for now i'm talking about a minimal-fuss way of adding PvE to the beta.

Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.13 23:11:00 - [11] - Quote Onar Kion wrote: Why can't you have both? That is very narrow view saying I only like PVP so thats all it should be.. I personally know several people that want to play Dust but have no interest in playing PvP solely. I play EVE and I run missions all the time. EVE is not soley PVP, or PVE it's a mixture of both. I'd rather attract both player bases, then just one player base and alienating the other. Since the more players you the more successful the game is, and you will get cross over between the PVP and PVE game types. Plus once the Corp taxes are in play PVE'ing players will still be earning your corp ISK. I did not say there shouldn't be PvE. You did not understand me. I said PvE against drones, where the gameplay is distinctly unlike the PvP we do now, would be fine. CCP spending time working on game modes that really broaden the experience available to players would be a good thing. Having a PvE mode where it's just like PvP, except you fight bots controlling clones instead of players controlling clones, doesn't add to the game. There's no sense in doing a game mode that mimics something already in place. Not for a game like Dust, where the PvP multiplayer aspect of it is all-important. Edu Ashbourne wrote: Don't intend for the PvE to mirror regular combat at all. You and your squad go A-Team on a full team of NPCs to complete objectives on a linear designed map. Think of it like the pirate NPCs in eve. There's always a lot of them and they use models belong to ships that would wipe the floor with you in PvP, but they're actually pretty easy to kill and only use the one weapon and the odd module. Drones will come in later but for now i'm talking about a minimal-fuss way of adding PvE to the beta. You're fighting bots with assault rifles and forge guns, wearing assault suits and scout suits. There's merit to the idea of having a new game mode involving competitive objectives in a linear map. That's a pretty popular game type for competitive multiplayer games. But adding bots into it where it could just as easily have been players totally misses the point.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 23:18:00 - [12] - Quote Edu Ashbourne wrote: i'm talking about a minimal-fuss way of adding PvE to the beta. Show me where the existing bot AI is just lying around waiting, fully set up to work in DUST? I think using the Rogue Drone AI they've already been working on in conjunction with the Rogue Drone models they've been working on is probably a more "minimal-fuss way" of adding PvE than creating an entirely new set of AI subroutines that they haven't been working on prior to this point.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.11.14 10:12:00 - [13] - Quote Edu Ashbourne wrote: Don't intend for the PvE to mirror regular combat at all. You and your squad go A-Team on a full team of NPCs to complete objectives on a linear designed map. Think of it like the pirate NPCs in eve. There's always a lot of them and they use models belong to ships that would wipe the floor with you in PvP, but they're actually pretty easy to kill and only use the one weapon and the odd module. Drones will come in later but for now i'm talking about a minimal-fuss way of adding PvE to the beta. You're fighting bots with assault rifles and forge guns, wearing assault suits and scout suits. There's merit to the idea of having a new game mode involving competitive objectives in a linear map. That's a pretty popular game type for competitive multiplayer games. But adding bots into it where it could just as easily have been players totally misses the point.[/quote] Again. This isn't intended as "the only PvE element EVER. No drones, Sansha, etc EVER." Just something for people who like co-op to play so CCP can figure stuff out. And just because the bots would wear player gear, doesn't mean it's the same thing as players. Like in EVE, NPCs would be named in a way that lets you know what to expect of them. There'd be groups of weak enemies, heavy 'bosses', snipers (which never headshot), all that stuff. Perhaps the AI would be predictable but sometimes that's a good thing. Garrett Blacknova wrote: Edu Ashbourne wrote: i'm talking about a minimal-fuss way of adding PvE to the beta. Show me where the existing bot AI is just lying around waiting, fully set up to work in DUST? I think using the Rogue Drone AI they've already been working on in conjunction with the Rogue Drone models they've been working on is probably a more "minimal-fuss way" of adding PvE than creating an entirely new set of AI subroutines that they haven't been working on prior to this point. Like I said right there in the OP, I'm assuming that the Unreal engine comes with the AI used in there games, which can act pretty human at times. Only issue is if it could be adapted for Dust, so troops take cover and aim and such. You're probably right that Drones would be easier to code. We don't know if they got enough of them modeled for a varied fight though.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.14 13:59:00 - [14] - Quote Edu Ashbourne wrote: Like I said right there in the OP, I'm assuming that the Unreal engine comes with the AI used in there games, which can act pretty human at times. Only issue is if it could be adapted for Dust, so troops take cover and aim and such. You're probably right that Drones would be easier to code. We don't know if they got enough of them modeled for a varied fight though. Unreal Engine comes with some basic tools to MAKE the AI - subroutines and such. It doesn't come with fully intact AI already tailored to suit the game you're designing and the weapon types you're planning to implement in the game. For obvious reasons.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.11.14 16:24:00 - [15] - Quote Uh.. Isnt this Single Player? Basically Just wait SP will be cool :V
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.14 17:11:00 - [16] - Quote DarkShadowFox wrote: Uh.. Isnt this Single Player? Basically Just wait SP will be cool :V Single player is when you're alone. This is co-op. You have other players on your side, but AI enemies instead of other people to kill.
Onar Kion Dark Horizon Industries 26	Posted - 2012.11.15 17:21:00 - [17] - Quote I have said it before, but honestly I a looking more forward to PVE stuff lately. Since I am in the same EVE Universe, can interact with my EVE Corp. I don't have to PVP all the time. I think in a sense DUST will push people away if it is only PVP. I know at times, I log in check out my skill points and maybe play a match then log out. In other games if I am getting spawn camped, or constantly dying. It's more Oh well, that's life. Do I get annoyed sure but doesn't last long. Here, when those things happen, I am losing money every time I spawn in and die. After a while of losing lots of ISK and accomplishing virtually nothing it gets old. I still would like to play but usually end up just logging out. Now if I had a change to play other modes, missions with friends. Yes we could still lose ISK, but in a more relaxed setting. Or sheesh I lost a lot of ISK today, I'm gonna have to run some missions to cover my costs. This doing myself, instead of just having my EVE character send my Dust character tens of millions of ISK.
Romilous Kashenti Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:53:00 - [18] - Quote Onar Kion wrote: I have said it before, but honestly I a looking more forward to PVE stuff lately. Since I am in the same EVE Universe, can interact with my EVE Corp. I don't have to PVP all the time. I think in a sense DUST will push people away if it is only PVP. I know at times, I log in check out my skill points and maybe play a match then log out. In other games if I am getting spawn camped, or constantly dying. It's more Oh well, that's life. Do I get annoyed sure but doesn't last long. Here, when those things happen, I am losing money every time I spawn in and die. After a while of losing lots of ISK and accomplishing virtually nothing it gets old. I still would like to play but usually end up just logging out. Now if I had a change to play other modes, missions with friends. Yes we could still lose ISK, but in a more relaxed setting. Or sheesh I lost a lot of ISK today, I'm gonna have to run some missions to cover my costs. This doing myself, instead of just having my EVE character send my Dust character tens of millions of ISK. Didn't they say that there were going to be games with drone infestations? That would be your PVE.
Onar Kion Dark Horizon Industries 26	Posted - 2012.11.16 23:08:00 - [19] - Quote Romilous Kashenti wrote: Onar Kion wrote: I have said it before, but honestly I a looking more forward to PVE stuff lately. Since I am in the same EVE Universe, can interact with my EVE Corp. I don't have to PVP all the time. I think in a sense DUST will push people away if it is only PVP. I know at times, I log in check out my skill points and maybe play a match then log out. In other games if I am getting spawn camped, or constantly dying. It's more Oh well, that's life. Do I get annoyed sure but doesn't last long. Here, when those things happen, I am losing money every time I spawn in and die. After a while of losing lots of ISK and accomplishing virtually nothing it gets old. I still would like to play but usually end up just logging out. Now if I had a change to play other modes, missions with friends. Yes we could still lose ISK, but in a more relaxed setting. Or sheesh I lost a lot of ISK today, I'm gonna have to run some missions to cover my costs. This doing myself, instead of just having my EVE character send my Dust character tens of millions of ISK. Didn't they say that there were going to be games with drone infestations? That would be your PVE. Survival modes can be fun, because that is all Drone Infestation seems to be. I'd like more then that, then swarm comes shoot swarm, hard swarm comes etc. I do like it in Warhammer Space Marine 40,000 but that has a melee element to it. I'd like to see a lot of different kinds of PVE missions that aren't just survival. Like you're hired to stop Sansha from kidnapping people, and have to save civilians. So you fight off Sansha and have to keep X amount of civilians from being taken. Or your contract because a pirate base was found and it needs to be destroyed. Maybe a side mission that it's a drug lab. You're hired because data was stolen from another corp and your team of players has to HALO drop on to a hi-res building and infiltrate it to secure the data try to do it undetected or fight off the revival corps security forces. Missions could have levels same as EVE. So a level 1 mission you could solo with the right kills. Or missions all have side missions but it's not possible to do the main objective and the side missions. So you co-op. This could be a factional war fair or a regular missions. Imagine a mission you're hire to assassinate someone, so you see a urban area, that isn't rubble. A city talked about in EVE but you are actually there and can see it. You have to shoot some corps VP, or the territorial Governor. So much can be done here plus keeping with the EVE universe and the PVP side of it.
Edu Ashbourne Doomheim 54	Posted - 2012.12.11 20:07:00 - [20] - Quote Bumping because I still think this would be fun to play on the beta.



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