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Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
328
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Posted - 2014.11.25 05:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
So weapons currently have a maximum range, and an optimal range, and then damage falls off from optimal to maximum. What I'd like to see is a minimum range added to weapons. Weapons deal full damage between the minimal range and optimal range, and then have damage fall off the closer you get to the weapon.
I think this would be the way to balance the long range vs short range weapons, instead of changing mechanics that could change the weapon at both long and short range, just directly lower the damage of longer range weapons as the range gets shorter.
Pistols and shotgun would have no minimum range because they are the short range kings, then things like smg, assault rifle, and hmg would be the next general range of weapons, then magsec, combat rifle, then scrambler and rail rifle, then sniper rifle.
All weapons stay effective at the ranges they were designed for, and there'd be no need to try and use kick, dispersion, or something else that players can compensate for easily to try and make them less good at their unintended ranges, just directly nerf their damage at the ranges they werent meant for. |
Kensai Dragon
DUST University Ivy League
125
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Posted - 2014.11.25 06:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
So my HEAVY MACHINE GUN spitting 40 rds / second at point blank range becomes a care bear blowing kisses because you're too close? Are you serious?
KDR - Kill Die Repeat
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2306
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Posted - 2014.11.25 07:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think there are better ways to balance using only what we have before us. Namely, hipfire and ADS, both kick and dispersion (and decay).
Why make up a physics/lore problem when we have the tools at hand to accomplish the same goal?
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with the premise of the OP. |
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION
2236
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Posted - 2014.11.25 07:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
There aren't enough electrons in the known universe to store the amount of times I want to type no as data.
It's an abomination already on the laser rifle. Don't you get that filth anywhere near my rail rifle. Or any weapon for that matter.
Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
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Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
328
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Posted - 2014.11.25 14:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kensai Dragon wrote:So my HEAVY MACHINE GUN spitting 40 rds / second at point blank range becomes a care bear blowing kisses because you're too close? Are you serious?
Since hmg is primarily a short range weapon, I think that maybe its minimum range would be 10 meters, and then at 0 meters from the weapon it does maybe betweeen 1/2 to 2/3 of its normal damage, which is still over 400 dps, so no, it wouldnt be weak up close.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3587
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
While I get what you're going for, I think straight up damage reduction is typically not the way to go as it doesn't make much sense intuitively. Obviously gameplay is most important but you also don't want a system where players are confused because the mechanics are counter-intuitive. I think it's much better to focus on mechanics which disincentivize the use of weapons at close range, such as recoil, dispersion, ect. rather than direct damage reduction.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
328
|
Posted - 2014.11.25 15:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:While I get what you're going for, I think straight up damage reduction is typically not the way to go as it doesn't make much sense intuitively. Obviously gameplay is most important but you also don't want a system where players are confused because the mechanics are counter-intuitive. I think it's much better to focus on mechanics which disincentivize the use of weapons at close range, such as recoil, dispersion, ect. rather than direct damage reduction.
Focusing on those aspects has only lead to weapons which are good at long range, and still good at close range because of player skill compensating for weapon flaws, while other weapons cant even compete at long range, and get out performed in their intended short range rolls. |
Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
2313
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Have you tried a RR recently? It's anything but "still good".
I think the devs should use the tools we have before making up things -- and I'm please that is exactly where Rattati is focused. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
3587
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Posted - 2014.11.25 15:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
I get what you're saying but there are methods to make long range weapons perform badly at close range. For example in EVE the way they make long range turrets perform poorly at close range is through tracking speed, or the rate at which the turret can rotate to hit a moving target. This means that at close range the transversal velocity of the target is too high and literally fly circles around the ship, faster than the turrets can stay on target.
A similar method can be employed in Dust, where hipfire can have so much recoil that it more or less is useless, and then aiming down the sight has this reduced tracking speed. At range, tracking speed is a non factor since transveral is low, but up close it is an insurmountable disadvantage because you literally will not be able to track an enemy at close range while aiming down the sights.
Now granted I'm speaking in extreme terms for the sake of the example, but all in all its a matter of degree.
Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
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Draden Brohiem
D3ATH CARD RUST415
13
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kensai Dragon wrote:So my HEAVY MACHINE GUN spitting 40 rds / second at point blank range becomes a care bear blowing kisses because you're too close? Are you serious?
Read again.... |
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5330
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Posted - 2014.11.25 16:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is a bad proposal.
It works with lasers because they can be fucused for specific ranges.
Not so much for other weapons. This would take a complete logic asspull and detract from the game more than it adds.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Kensai Dragon
DUST University Ivy League
126
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Posted - 2014.11.25 19:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Kensai Dragon wrote:So my HEAVY MACHINE GUN spitting 40 rds / second at point blank range becomes a care bear blowing kisses because you're too close? Are you serious? Read again....
Read again. Still think it's a bad idea. Show either a physics based or lore based reason for the weapon to be weaker up close. Laser is the only one that even comes close through the idea of focusing light. A projectile (HMG) does not get more powerful half way through the trajectory. It just doesn't make sense.
KDR - Kill Die Repeat
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Banjo Robertson
Random Gunz RISE of LEGION
328
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Posted - 2014.11.26 01:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kensai Dragon wrote:Draden Brohiem wrote:Kensai Dragon wrote:So my HEAVY MACHINE GUN spitting 40 rds / second at point blank range becomes a care bear blowing kisses because you're too close? Are you serious? Read again.... Read again. Still think it's a bad idea. Show either a physics based or lore based reason for the weapon to be weaker up close. Laser is the only one that even comes close through the idea of focusing light. A projectile (HMG) does not get more powerful half way through the trajectory. It just doesn't make sense.
Shields, in the way they are in sci fi shows and video games do not make sense from a physics point of view, faster than light gate travel does not make sense, transfering your conciousness from one clone body to another does not make sense. We are talking about a video game in a fictional setting where nothing is real, and you want to introduce logic?
If you want a reason, the munition is going too fast to deal its full amount of damage, kind of like how its better to have a bullet go right in and then right out of you than it is to have a bullet go in to you and shatter/lodge into your body in smaller pieces.
The round going faster gets deflected by the shields/armor of the suit easier than when its going slower between its minimum and optimum range.
Pokey Dravon wrote:A similar method can be employed in Dust, where hipfire can have so much recoil that it more or less is useless, and then aiming down the sight has this reduced tracking speed. At range, tracking speed is a non factor since transveral is low, but up close it is an insurmountable disadvantage because you literally will not be able to track an enemy at close range while aiming down the sights.
I simply disagree that this is enough to balance weapons of different range classes. |
Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
701
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Posted - 2014.11.26 05:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
This sounds like the idea of a cloak scout who wants to sneak up, decloak, and then do all his damage to anyone while not being able to be fired upon at full force.
Not sure if O.P. is a scout or no, but on the premise I just mentioned I have to vote HELL NO. This would make shotgun and Nova Knife scouts entirely too powerful with absolutely no counter.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Thokk Nightshade
Montana Militia
701
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Posted - 2014.11.26 05:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:Kensai Dragon wrote:So my HEAVY MACHINE GUN spitting 40 rds / second at point blank range becomes a care bear blowing kisses because you're too close? Are you serious? Since hmg is primarily a short range weapon, I think that maybe its minimum range would be 10 meters, and then at 0 meters from the weapon it does maybe betweeen 1/2 to 2/3 of its normal damage, which is still over 400 dps, so no, it wouldnt be weak up close.
1/2 to 1/3 normal damage for an HMG makes every sentinel a sitting duck. So if this is your baseline, does that mean an assault will be 1/5 strength? A Combat Rifle will be 1/8 strength? A rail rifle will be 1/10 strength? A sniper rifle will be 1/25 strength?
I'm just multiplying up by optimal/max distances. With the scenario I just laid out at 5 meters (unrealistic but might as well throw it out there), my charged sniper rifle, with a headshot, using 2 complex damage mods on a Cal Commando, about 60 damage.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
431
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Posted - 2014.11.26 06:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
The forums has spoken. This post has been found...wanting.
I see where you are going with it -- it works for the laser rifle. But the laser has several other mechanics (heat build up, constant damage, increased damage based on time fired) that make it very unique. It could not be applied to ARs, CRs, RRs, or really anything else.
But it's silly to make a rifle completely useless because you are too close. Its an FPS afterall. |
Kensai Dragon
DUST University Ivy League
129
|
Posted - 2014.11.26 17:22:00 -
[17] - Quote
Banjo Robertson wrote:Kensai Dragon wrote:Draden Brohiem wrote:Kensai Dragon wrote:So my HEAVY MACHINE GUN spitting 40 rds / second at point blank range becomes a care bear blowing kisses because you're too close? Are you serious? Read again.... Read again. Still think it's a bad idea. Show either a physics based or lore based reason for the weapon to be weaker up close. Laser is the only one that even comes close through the idea of focusing light. A projectile (HMG) does not get more powerful half way through the trajectory. It just doesn't make sense. Shields, in the way they are in sci fi shows and video games do not make sense from a physics point of view, faster than light gate travel does not make sense, transfering your conciousness from one clone body to another does not make sense. We are talking about a video game in a fictional setting where nothing is real, and you want to introduce logic? If you want a reason, the munition is going too fast to deal its full amount of damage, kind of like how its better to have a bullet go right in and then right out of you than it is to have a bullet go in to you and shatter/lodge into your body in smaller pieces. The round going faster gets deflected by the shields/armor of the suit easier than when its going slower between its minimum and optimum range. Pokey Dravon wrote:A similar method can be employed in Dust, where hipfire can have so much recoil that it more or less is useless, and then aiming down the sight has this reduced tracking speed. At range, tracking speed is a non factor since transveral is low, but up close it is an insurmountable disadvantage because you literally will not be able to track an enemy at close range while aiming down the sights. I simply disagree that this is enough to balance weapons of different range classes.
Your logic fails under the caveat of lore reason. All the 'non-physics' aspects of shields, FTL travel, instant mind transfer, etc, are covered under lore.
KDR - Kill Die Repeat
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