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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1985
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Posted - 2014.03.28 10:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
As of right now, with the talk about possibly nerfing HP for certain Sentinel Dropsuits, I feel this attention should be more shifted towards Scouts.
As it stands right now, Scouts do not have balance as far as their pros/cons. The model we were informed a Scout would have is speed and stealth in sacrifice of HP. Their speed/stealth : HP Ratio is off the charts in respects to Heavy and Medium Frames.
Consider lower base HP for Scouts. As they shot simply not be able to tank beyond 600 EHP and still carry their passive bonuses and inherit skill-sets.
I ain't got time for dat sh!t
At least I'm not King ThunderBolt
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2241
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Or you leave them alone, fix the module balance and buff the Medium suits... you might be nerfing the high HP brick scouts with this but what about the squishy ewar scouts? you know those scouts that tank with their base HP...
For the Federation!
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8213
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
1985
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 11:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Or you leave them alone, fix the module balance and buff the Medium suits... you might be nerfing the high HP brick scouts with this but what about the squishy ewar scouts? you know those scouts that tank with their base HP...
All Scouts can tank very high HP, and still be faster, stealthier, and carry racial bonuses. Where is their balance on the field? Especially now that they have 2 equipment slots. Why would anyone use an Assault or Logi medium when a Scout can do it, and with more advantages.
Now I know, Scouts b*tched pre1.8 that their suits weren't role specific enough, but that was simply false, as it just took a thing called skill. But giving them everything they ever wanted is not balance. Just like when tanks got everything they ever wanted in 1.7. I'm looking for balance, not nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff cycles.
As far as some Scouts not tanking HP, and just using their passive and inherit: that's the risk they chose to take in sacrifice in other roles. If they are sacrificing HP, it is because they are excelling in other areas over their medium frame cousins. It is no different than a medium frame not tanking HP in favor of other modules (which I wish the playerbase would do more often)
The description of Scouts was less HP in favor of special abilities. Now, they get to keep those abilities (have them amplified in 1.8 actually) and not sacrifice their HP.
I ain't got time for dat sh!t
At least I'm not King ThunderBolt
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BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
2243
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 11:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
8213 wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Or you leave them alone, fix the module balance and buff the Medium suits... you might be nerfing the high HP brick scouts with this but what about the squishy ewar scouts? you know those scouts that tank with their base HP... All Scouts can tank very high HP, and still be faster, stealthier, and carry racial bonuses. Where is their balance on the field? Especially now that they have 2 equipment slots. Why would anyone use an Assault or Logi medium when a Scout can do it, and with more advantages. Now I know, Scouts b*tched pre1.8 that their suits weren't role specific enough, but that was simply false, as it just took a thing called skill. But giving them everything they ever wanted is not balance. Just like when tanks got everything they ever wanted in 1.7. I'm looking for balance, not nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff cycles. As far as some Scouts not tanking HP, and just using their passive and inherit: that's the risk they chose to take in sacrifice in other roles. If they are sacrificing HP, it is because they are excelling in other areas over their medium frame cousins. It is no different than a medium frame not tanking HP in favor of other modules (which I wish the playerbase would do more often) The description of Scouts was less HP in favor of special abilities. Now, they get to keep those abilities (have them amplified in 1.8 actually) and not sacrifice their HP.
As far as some Scouts not tanking HP, and just using their passive and inherit: that's the risk they chose to take in sacrifice in other roles. If they are sacrificing HP, it is because they are excelling in other areas over their medium frame cousins. It is no different than a medium frame not tanking HP in favor of other modules (which I wish the playerbase would do more often)
If you agree with this mindset what is the problem with a brick tanked scout? Brick tanking is an inherent problem of bad module balance. HP wins all the time because there is nothing better to put inside those modules, or the modules that you really need interfering with other necessary modules. You can nerf the scouts but brick tanking will always be a problem regardless of the suit.
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/491/2504, also this is a Assault GK.0 who is brick tanked, is cloaked, and is faster than a bricked scout. Nerf them and I am sure you will see some of these, what then will you nerf the Assaults HP or increase the costs of cloaks further hurting the scouts? There are issues at play beyond the scout that translate across a multitude of suits.
Although currently scouts run rampant because there is a new toy out to play with and medium suits are just terrible and boring compared to what you can do with a scout and a heavy suit. So before doing any changes the Medium suits should be finished and data should be collected.
For the Federation!
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Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
2412
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Posted - 2014.03.28 11:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:8213 wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Or you leave them alone, fix the module balance and buff the Medium suits... you might be nerfing the high HP brick scouts with this but what about the squishy ewar scouts? you know those scouts that tank with their base HP... All Scouts can tank very high HP, and still be faster, stealthier, and carry racial bonuses. Where is their balance on the field? Especially now that they have 2 equipment slots. Why would anyone use an Assault or Logi medium when a Scout can do it, and with more advantages. Now I know, Scouts b*tched pre1.8 that their suits weren't role specific enough, but that was simply false, as it just took a thing called skill. But giving them everything they ever wanted is not balance. Just like when tanks got everything they ever wanted in 1.7. I'm looking for balance, not nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff cycles. As far as some Scouts not tanking HP, and just using their passive and inherit: that's the risk they chose to take in sacrifice in other roles. If they are sacrificing HP, it is because they are excelling in other areas over their medium frame cousins. It is no different than a medium frame not tanking HP in favor of other modules (which I wish the playerbase would do more often) The description of Scouts was less HP in favor of special abilities. Now, they get to keep those abilities (have them amplified in 1.8 actually) and not sacrifice their HP. As far as some Scouts not tanking HP, and just using their passive and inherit: that's the risk they chose to take in sacrifice in other roles. If they are sacrificing HP, it is because they are excelling in other areas over their medium frame cousins. It is no different than a medium frame not tanking HP in favor of other modules (which I wish the playerbase would do more often)If you agree with this mindset what is the problem with a brick tanked scout? Brick tanking is an inherent problem of bad module balance. HP wins all the time because there is nothing better to put inside those modules, or the modules that you really need interfering with other necessary modules. You can nerf the scouts but brick tanking will always be a problem regardless of the suit. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/491/2504, also this is a Assault GK.0 who is brick tanked, is cloaked, and is faster than a bricked scout. Nerf them and I am sure you will see some of these, what then will you nerf the Assaults HP or increase the costs of cloaks further hurting the scouts? There are issues at play beyond the scout that translate across a multitude of suits. Although currently scouts run rampant because there is a new toy out to play with and medium suits are just terrible and boring compared to what you can do with a scout and a heavy suit. So before doing any changes the Medium suits should be finished and data should be collected. This. It isnt a problem of Scouts so much as it is a problem of modules as a whole. Currently, HP mods are the best ones. I welcome anyone to argue that point.
HP values for modules need to be cut down, and normalized as far as progression between tiers. Even Extenders.
This would also have the added benefit of improving the NPE by lowering the HP difference between fitted PRO and fitted STD suits, and improving new player retention so we can actually grow our playerbase.
Fizzer94 // Forum Warrior Operation II // MAG Vet
Gallente Neutron Rifle
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
853
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
8213 wrote:As of right now, with the talk about possibly nerfing HP for certain Sentinel Dropsuits, I feel this attention should be more shifted towards Scouts.
As it stands right now, Scouts do not have balance as far as their pros/cons. The model we were informed a Scout would have is speed and stealth in sacrifice of HP. Their speed/stealth : HP Ratio is off the charts in respects to Heavy and Medium Frames.
Consider lower base HP for Scouts. As they should simply not be able to tank beyond 600 EHP and still carry their passive bonuses and inherit skill-sets.
Why should the ability to brick tank a scout be different from other suits? Logis can brick tank, assaults can brick tank and heavies can do this.
Apart from that Assaults can speed tank, heavies can speed tank and both can stealth tank as well...btw a stealth tanked heavy will still have more ehp than a brick tanked scout...and may be even faster...
And why nerf the base hp?? This would solve nothing brick tanked scouts woul still brick tank. 130 hp armor is really not that much (on a gal scout) and the base hp is just small portion of the total armor hp of a brick tanked scout.
If you want defined roles and classes this must be true for ALL dropsuits so no stealth/speed tanking for heavies and meds...what a boring concept.
You do realize that brick tanked scouts pay a price for their HP? The may have a slightly higher walking speed but they will sprint and strafe like a heavy... |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
853
|
Posted - 2014.03.28 13:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:8213 wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Or you leave them alone, fix the module balance and buff the Medium suits... you might be nerfing the high HP brick scouts with this but what about the squishy ewar scouts? you know those scouts that tank with their base HP... All Scouts can tank very high HP, and still be faster, stealthier, and carry racial bonuses. Where is their balance on the field? Especially now that they have 2 equipment slots. Why would anyone use an Assault or Logi medium when a Scout can do it, and with more advantages. Now I know, Scouts b*tched pre1.8 that their suits weren't role specific enough, but that was simply false, as it just took a thing called skill. But giving them everything they ever wanted is not balance. Just like when tanks got everything they ever wanted in 1.7. I'm looking for balance, not nerf, buff, nerf, buff, nerf, buff cycles. As far as some Scouts not tanking HP, and just using their passive and inherit: that's the risk they chose to take in sacrifice in other roles. If they are sacrificing HP, it is because they are excelling in other areas over their medium frame cousins. It is no different than a medium frame not tanking HP in favor of other modules (which I wish the playerbase would do more often) The description of Scouts was less HP in favor of special abilities. Now, they get to keep those abilities (have them amplified in 1.8 actually) and not sacrifice their HP. As far as some Scouts not tanking HP, and just using their passive and inherit: that's the risk they chose to take in sacrifice in other roles. If they are sacrificing HP, it is because they are excelling in other areas over their medium frame cousins. It is no different than a medium frame not tanking HP in favor of other modules (which I wish the playerbase would do more often)If you agree with this mindset what is the problem with a brick tanked scout? Brick tanking is an inherent problem of bad module balance. HP wins all the time because there is nothing better to put inside those modules, or the modules that you really need interfering with other necessary modules. You can nerf the scouts but brick tanking will always be a problem regardless of the suit. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/491/2504, also this is a Assault GK.0 who is brick tanked, is cloaked, and is faster than a bricked scout. Nerf them and I am sure you will see some of these, what then will you nerf the Assaults HP or increase the costs of cloaks further hurting the scouts? There are issues at play beyond the scout that translate across a multitude of suits. Although currently scouts run rampant because there is a new toy out to play with and medium suits are just terrible and boring compared to what you can do with a scout and a heavy suit. So before doing any changes the Medium suits should be finished and data should be collected. This. It isnt a problem of Scouts so much as it is a problem of modules as a whole. Currently, HP mods are the best ones. I welcome anyone to argue that point. HP values for modules need to be cut down, and normalized as far as progression between tiers. Even Extenders. This would also have the added benefit of improving the NPE by lowering the HP difference between fitted PRO and fitted STD suits, and improving new player retention so we can actually grow our playerbase.
This is true, but its not even the modules themselves but the option to stack them. Just imagine how much more balanced this game could be If proto would just mean more flexibility instead of way more HP? |
8213
BIG BAD W0LVES Canis Eliminatus Operatives
2000
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 09:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Honestly, I see no exception that a Scout should be over 600HP, period. Especially with the fact that their HP regen is through the roof.
I ain't got time for dat sh!t
At least I'm not King ThunderBolt
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xSir Campsalotx
G0DS AM0NG MEN D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 12:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
i say put a hard cap on scout hp say 400-500 btw im a scout running less than 400 hp
G0DS AM0NG MEN Director
1.8 is going to be Heavy 514 they said... Looking around all I see are twig men
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